Third Time’s A Charm As Fratto Hits Ashland

. . . And the dancefloor ain’t nothing without you girl . . . Oh oh oh

Thank you for putting it this way. We have yet to gain a “good guy” because Fratto decided not to help the government.

People like Logic are probably rejoicing at this because there beloved Chicago Outfit–I mean–Chicago Blackhand is still intact.

Logic and other people who love the Outfit are so sick!

Joseph Fosco

Dear And the dancefloor,
You are very welcome.
Thanks,
JF

. . . And the dancefloor ain’t nothing without you girl . . . Oh oh oh

Hopefully, Fratto will have a change of heart and cooperate against these Elmwood Park and Cicero bastards very soon, so we can be rid of the punks.

If anyone in the Fratto family is reading this, please persuade Rudy to assist the US Government. Rudy would be doing the right thing.

Also, if Rudy cooperates, many of us will enjoy the unintended consequence of shutting the mouths of commenters on here who brag about ”the Outfit” and its apparent lack of “rats.”

So you know, “rats” = troubled people who have decided to do the right thing and deserve to be commended, accordingly.

Thank you.

Harlem Playboy

Dear Ghost of F*rt on a Horseys B*ner,

You really know how to beat a dead horse (no pun intended).
Rats are filthy to their core. They find a way to bargain for their freedom, and unfortunately, we buy it.
Now, I would like to dedicate this one to you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3oih-vQXzk

the ghost of f*rt on a horsey b*ner

Joe,

Do you agree that mobsters who choose to cooperate are doing the right thing? I realize that it is possible for them to submit false information that could harm their enemies. But the mobsters that cooperate honestly and with good intentions are doing good, right? They are not filthy to their core, as Harlem Playboy would have us believe, are they?

Thanks for the song, by the way. Taio Cruz. Nice.

Now, I would like to dedicate this one to you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3znWZj-x9U#t=00m05s
- Joseph Fosco
  
  Dear the ghost,
  In my opinion, the mobsters that cooperate honestly and with good intentions are doing good.
morning paper, coffee, bagel

Harlem Playboy (Ugotz?) – I hope you were kidding about cooperating witnesses being filthy to the core. Aren’t you the guys who had a bunch of posts about going to the church and reading the bible? You should consider examining gangland murders through your supposed lens of moral rectitude too.
- Harlem
  
  Dear Ghost,
  
  I have no idea who ‘Ugotz’ is, nor do I care.
  Look, all I’m saying is that most of the time the rats are just as bad or worse than the ones they are turning against. The only difference is that the government usually has them by the “you know what” so they are left with no other options but to turn on their former associates. In other words, the only reason why they are cooperating is to save their own behinds.
  Let me ask you this: Why don’t the rats ever come forward and “do the right thing” on their own without anything to gain for themselves.
  - Joseph Fosco
    
    Dear Harlem,
    I am sure the Outfit considers me a ‘rat’. I have gone forward doing the right thing without having an indictment over my head to deal with.

Dale

The late-Daniel Siefert, the late-Nick D’Andrea, and the late-Anthony Chiaramonti all have sons and daughters who are very active on news group message board threads decrying the murderous and criminal ways of the Chicago Outfit–the criminal apparatus that ordered the deaths of their fathers.

Ask Steve Warmbir, Jeff Coen, John Kass, or Eric Zorn if you don’t believe me.

Imagine how these people must feel to read comments from people like “Ugotz472″ bragging about Outfit loyalty and resilience.

http://AmericanNewsPost Ugotz472

Hey “Dale 6″ nobody forced anyone to do anything that they didn’t want to!

Dale

“Ugotz472,″

Way to condone Outfit murder and criminal activity. I hope for your sake these victims’ families aren’t reading this. How do you know they’re not? I would imagine that they have, currently are, or, at some point, will considering how popular and widely-read this blog is.

The fact that these men were criminals doesn’t make their murders any less of a crime or tragedy for their families.

Some Outfit members ordered the murder of Joe Fosco himself, according to his articles and comments. If I were Joe Fosco, I would be infuriated and disgusted with anyone cheering for or bragging about the Outfit.

You are probably one of those sick & unconnected mob day-dreamers who would have been rallying around John Gotti every time he was acquitted back in the 90′s.

I ask why.
Logic

Wow you even thought the date of Dale’s post (6th) was in his name. You are a bright one and may be exactly the type of person the Outfit is looking for. Have you considered going into business with them? Just give them all your money and literally it will be living like Goodfellas.

Daley retires!

Great who’s the next mayor that f-ing idiot ballerina rahm emanuel?

Logic

I think we should put a tea party member in as Mayor of a Big City like Chicago. They could wear cowboy outfits and we could all walk around with guns like the Wild West. We could have shootouts with non-christians, scientists and scary labor unions. See if those Outfit boys on Grand Avenue could corrupt the tea party boys!

We could burn Harry Potter books and instead of “Elitist” condo developments, we could create giant trailer parks to attract more “patriots” or Americans living near the poverty line in rural America who don’t believe in “college.”

voice of reason

Joe,

Are you acquainted with any of the Outfit’s murder victims’ families?

I think an interesting article would be what I’ll call a “sensitivity piece.”

You can interview one of these victims’ family members–because, let’s face it, murdered gangsters are still victims–in the interest in “deromanticizing” the mafia, all in an effort to get through to mob braggarts like Ugotz who don’t know what they are really talking about, and who may not be aware of the effects of what they are saying.

Joseph Fosco

Dear Voice,
Yes I am. Good idea. I will address it soon.
- voice of reason
  
  Thank you. I’ll look forward to it.
  
  I would love to read it, and, if you put as much into a sensitivity piece as the Mungo-Navarro article, it could be the one the gets you some attention. In the wake of Family Secrets and with a vague sense of other mass-indictments looming, it seems like a particularly auspicious time for such an article.
  - Dale
    
    Yes, hopefully it will have the consequence of quieting people who are unapologetically cheering for and defending the Outfit in these threads. If you need an example, look no further than today’s 8:38 am comment.

Offbase Owen

Readers,

According to the WIlliam Roemer memoirs, the Chicago mob has been decimated several times over. In fact, by the mid-90′s it became a ragtag, minimally effective, house-of-cards skeleton crew only calling itself “the Outfit” with the elevation of Samuel Carlisi.

William Roemer could not believe that Carlisi–a former parking lot attendant–was put in a position on authority. Since the incarceration of Carlisi, the Outfit has been dwindling yet.

I have a feeling that if Rahm Emmanuel becomes our mayor, he’ll crack down, and the current poor excuse for the Outfit will become history.

Joseph Fosco

Dear Offbase,
I believe that Rahm has a significant relationship with Jimmy DeLeo, which could mean the Outfit is a friend to Rahm.
The Don

Offbase Owen, Roemer’s books are a joke. His book is filled with inaccurate details and personal ridiculous conclusions. He didn’t really understand the way the Outfit was structured and how it truly operated.
- Joseph Fosco
  
  Dear The Don,
  I agree. However, the fraud that he was sold a lot of books.

Daley retires!

Tea party cowboy as opposed to a guy from bridgeport wearing a fedora?

Joseph Fosco

http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/InmateFinderServlet?Transaction=NameSearch&needingMoreList=false&FirstName=rudolph&Middle=&LastName=fratto&Race=U&Sex=U&Age=&x=44&y=13

aaahh

rudy a C U Next Tuesday if i ever saw one

Black Angelo

The mob/mafia of today in Chicago has become more sophisticated with the times. You have to understand pre 1957 (basically before the FBI got involved ) it was rather stress free being a boss…hell all you had to do was pay your taxes and that was it. Of course if you tried to extort all the Hollywood and got caught you might have a problem or than that back then it was pay your taxes. The Outfit today though has become extremely sophisticated as a matter of fact.

I have no idea who the boss of the Outfit is today. But I have my hunch and if my hunch is correct…I feel given all he has dodged and what your up against these days in terms of gov’t tools (rather it be RICO, IRS, DEA, Wire Taps, snitches, informants etc etc) he may be one of the more effective mafia bosses of all time in any crime family.

I know that’s a bold statement…but if people realized what money is being made overseas in 3rd world countries and on Island resorts and cruise ships…well it would shock the general public. Of course everybody always associates murder w/ the mob/mafia/Outfit…but as long as you don’t get in the way of the Outfits money “you live”. Most of the sophistication has come with how you raise your kids to become members “Good Members” of society…in that some of the mobs childeren are now lawyers, business men and women, real estate agents, stockbrokers, luxury hotel mangers, doctors, in the Hollywood industry, policemen/women in Chicago and in different cities, pilots, professors and money managers …not to mention all the real estate and other investments that are untouchable and untraceable.

The mafia in terms of numbers (associates/made members) really means nothing…a while ago it was decided the “real members” are the ones doing “good” in society. I dont see a mob boss leasurely going to eat pizza with his brothers and old time pals…go to your local Catholic church here in Chicago and the boss may be wearing black all the time….You get me?

In terms of Rudy Fratto well he was an idiot for not paying his taxes “an idiotic move”…so just on stupidity he should go to the can. In terms of his bid-rigging case..well I read the indictment and I think he has a good chance of beating it, all though he has a good chance of losing also …and as long as the Gov’t feels that can’t paint him into a corner they’ll more than likely offer him another deal “while he’s out on bond again” …I mean its not like they have a murder pinned on him like Nick Calabrese.

Plus who could he possibly harm in the Outfit that is a part of the “bad society” John DiFronzo maybe? Rudy certainly was kept in the dark for a reason by alot of bad society guys…because it was known for quiet a while the IRS was going to come crashing in…so what does he really know thats of any weight to take down a “big fish in the bad society”…and he certainly doesn’t have anything on the “Good Society” members of the Outfit…Nick Calabrese more than likely has the goods on these bad guys not a Fratto. Hell the “G” cant even get Anthony Calabrese who has 1,000 years to RAT on Jimmy Inendino. Well I’ll believe it when I see it and then when I see it who they gonna indict on Frattos word?? I’ll stay tuned.

???

Here we go again with how the Outfit is more sophisticated and good at remaining in the shadows than ever… Sarno and Inendino and a handful of others might be involved in rackets, but the Outfit is almost gone. Good riddance.

Angelo, do you realize that what you’re saying contradicts what many people in law enforcement have said? You’re contradicting what Joe himself has said, also. The only one that consistently goes on TV and claims that the Outfit is still a “mafia” force to be reckoned with is Jim Wagner, who is the head of the CCC. Joe has repeatedly shown how wrong this guy is. He’s the guy that the media trots out that is willing to lend some credence to its cockamamie theories and stories.

I respect the fact that some of you know Outfit families. I suspect that we’re all from Chicago and are familiar with the “sexy” aspect of local mob lore. But let’s face it, the Outfit is done.
- Logic
  
  You need to understand something: warning of a looming threat does not mean we worship these thugs or want the Outfit to continue. Rather, our proximity to Outfit families and communities where these thugs still operate provides a first hand look that the Outfit is in fact…not done.
  
  Joe has noted on here the connections the Outfit has with Mayor Daley, DeLeo, Saviano and others. How would a ragtag gang of 5 people (as you appear to frame them) have connections to a current US Senator? The guy bought Michael Spilotro’s business after he was murdered…he’s the Outfit’s guy.
  
  You probably don’t read John Kass and I would suggest you start…you might learn a few things and realize that DiFronzo, Inendino and the well-known mobsters are only a fraction of the sickness that infects this city. Anthony “Bojo” Boggia who controls building permits throughout the city, the DiPiazza brothers in Bridgeport who make millions through rigging zoning deals, John and Gino Credidio who extort every movie production that happens in the city (Yes I saw Gino on the set of Transformers) these are the guys to worry about. Michael Giorango who owns Miami real estate and hotels with Mike Zitello and appears to have endless amount of loans (even though it was impossible he could put up collateral) from the family bank of a guy who could be our state treasurer? Give me a break.
  
  Chicago is a corrupt city that the Outfit still gets a huge chunk of that corruption. Rudy Fratto just went down for controlling bids at McCormick Place. This is 2010 and they are still getting away with that? Yes they did. They extorted a multi-million dollar corporation like Connies Pizza through 2004? Yes they did. They still have building inspectors and others who control building permits? Yes they do. JP Banks with his blatant Outfit connections is still an alderman? Yes he is. Senator James DeLeo is still in office? You betcha!
  
  Phil Stefani, one of the most successful resturaunteers in this city is often spotted with Andriacchi and previously with Zizzo. Marty Gutilla is another one. This is 2010…I thought the Outfit was dead and didn’t have these high profile connections?
  
  You don’t find it odd that video gambling was just legalized here and are not at all suspcious who lobbied for that, given the Outfit now owns every major video gambling business? You don’t find it odd that rival businesses were being bombed (something they hadn’t done for years) and a longtime made guy was even knocked down (Zizzo) after so many years of silence leading up to this legislation legalizing it? The Outfit knew it was coming and when the price is that high, they will come back out of the shadows. Now think of the millions they stand to make. Fuck Caruso’s son just married Casey Szarflarski’s daughter…that guy is known as the “video gaming king” because of what he owns.
  
  Street gang my ass…you probably don’t know this, but Jimmy I’s son married Sarno’s daughter. Dina Ferriola married John Crudele’s son. Frank C married Virgil Cimino’s daughter before he went to prison. Pete Caruso married Gina Bertucci. August Monteleone married the duaghter of another mobster. I went to a few of these weddings. You see they are all intermarried now…think of how easy it is to rat on criminal associates when they are your brothers in law, uncles and connected to your family. Its scary.
  
  You need to understand that guys on here who know something and post it do not need to be told of the evil the Outfit does…most likely, they had uncles, brothers or fathers who came home broke with broken thumbs because they gambled or honest union guys who were beat or fired because they didn’t vote for the Outfit’s man. Don’t act like I’m some punk kid who watches Casino too much.
  
  Half of this is gossip, the other half is realistic. Now that Daley is gone, I hope people in this city wake the hell up and start realizing how blatant these peopel operate.
  
  Joe feel free to weigh-in if you think I’m off base on any of this.
  - Response to Logic
    
    Dear Logic,
    
    No one on here is saying that people with notorious last names, Outfit names are no longer engaging in criminal behavior in Chicagoland anymore.
    
    I think the point is that the Outfit (meaning our own local centralized, hierarchical, Italian-American criminal organization) is effectively over. There is a huge lack—maybe a complete lack–of organization, which is what makes the mafia what it is.
    
    The FBI is not concerned about John DiFronzo, and John DiFronzo is not concerned about the Outfit. Joe Andriacchi is out of it. Mike Sarno is headed to prison. Fratto is headed to prison. Joe Fosco stated that Chinatown and the Caruso’s think that Jack Esq. is a boss because they are so terribly out of the loop. There is no Elmwood Park street crew anymore. A restaurant can be opened in Melrose Park, IL and any “neighborhoods” these days without the proprietor being extorted for money.
    
    For crying out loud, Joe Fosco is able to disclose information about mob murders, mob rackets and scams without consequence!!!
    
    All the evidence points to there being a lack of complete lack of centralization. There is no convincing evidence to the contrary for those of us evaluating the situation objectively.
    
    Just so you know, Logic, I am all too familiar with much of the gossip and interesting connections you have talked about on here, but I just choose to spread it around online. Such information is irrelevant to anything in these threads because it in no way proves or disproves anything about the status of Outfit one way or another. I understand that there are things that you know that I do not, but also I promise you that there are things that I know, which you do not.
    
    Which raises an interesting question:
    
    If we are both privy to much of the same information, how come we have drawn to opposite conclusions? I believe it is because I have no emotional stake in the Outfit; it fails to appeal to me; it has no allure. I am objective.
    
    Also, assuming that Joe knows far more than either of us, how come he is skeptical of the Outfit’s current status?
    
    I do read Kass from time to time, but I do not take what he says at face value. Do you?
    
    Writing about the Outfit is one of his “tricks.” (Many of his Outfit pieces are so nauseatingly “puffy” that anyone is able to tell that he is trying to make a mountain of an imaginary molehill.) And I am familiar with the articles in which Kass mentions some of the names that you have listed, and if memory serves me correctly, he regularly refers to them as being “former” “associates” of organized crime.
    
    (By the way, Logic, ask Joe what he thinks of Kass as a responsible reporter. I’m sure that while Joe will agree that he is a good writer, Kass has shown that he’s willing to distort things and throw people under the bus just to add flair to a story where there isn’t one.)
    
    I am not sure if you caught it , but Joe summed up the today’s “Outfit” best with a statement he made a while ago, which was something to the effect of:
    
    a group of old Italian-Americans who, if they are not in prison, are proud of the fact that they were once part of something powerful.
    
    I can agree with that.
    - Father Guido
      
      Logic and Response to, you are both correct, what was once the powerful outfit has given way to what is now known as “clout” or connections. Much more today is done “quasi” legit. Like Kass likes to say its the Chicago way. For goodness sake that the idiot former Gov Rod “believed” it was his right to recieve a highly lucrative position for appointing Obama’s replacement. He grew up in this mess and he doesnt know anything different. These old italian-americans and jewish americans and irish-americans have the connections to make the money in this great city. The power that the outfit had in Chicago was unprecidented in America, because the politicians, the political machines, and the labor unions were all on board. Times have changed, most/all of these people have moved on to a “safer” way to make money. Joe Fosco repeatedly points out that DiFronzo and Andriacci have made this there philosophy for years/decades. And everyone on here recognizes these top gangsters as “smart”
      Prohibition made the outfit, unions and gambling made the outfit more powerful and now the remains control positions which allow these connected people to continue to profit from real estate deals and trucking contracts etc. Your both correct and we all do know whats going on what makes it interesting is that citizens of Chicago have always known the game and the players yet have been unable or unwilling to put forth the will to stop it.

tony

Was Tony Calabrese with Inendino?

Father Guido

yes

Dale

I feel bad for the families of Michael Oliveri, Chuckie English, and Chris Cardi, as well. Their murders, which were sanctioned by the Outfit, remain unsolved.

It would be nice if we could make an effort to comment in a ways that encouraged people like Fratto to cooperate rather than throwing around words like “rat” and “snitch.”

Joe, did you know Chris Cardi? I know he was associated with Wee Willie. What a sad story. Same goes for Oliveri and English–even though English was Mooney’s guy and probably did his fair share of violence.

Joseph Fosco

Dear Dale,
I did not know Chris Cardi. I know a great deal of his family thru the now late Willie Messino. Willie was Cardi’s uncle. I know family members of Michael Oliver, though I did not know him. My father was a friend of Chuckie English.

Black Angelo

I guess I should start from the top by saying a lot of people on here associate “lack of violence” or “lack of Italian on Italian murder” as a decline in the Chicago Outfit or any mafia family. As stated previously in my earlier column…nothing could be further from the truth. Their once was a time in the Chicago mob history where violence was a necessity to some mob bosses a good example is in the 1920s…a lot of people that happened to be on the wrong end of a Tommy-Gun was in the way of the organizing efforts. A lot of what Capone did then was to organize the city the way it is now (with just 1 crime family). Basically if it wasn’t for him (and some bosses after him to make sure the screws didn’t come lose) Chicago back then would have had 3 crime families and possibly 2 crime families starting in the 1980s.

Its not a coincidence that the two of the more bloodier decades in Chicago Outfit history was the 1920s and the 1970s. A lot of the violence was pure non-sense in the 1970s a very violent era. The part of any mafia family is organization and organizing other elements of society rather it be politics, the police, and your family. Imagine on May 17 2009 another Italian guy just would of died in Chicago and no one outside of his family would of blinked an eye. But of course that is not what happened because Nick Calabrese exposed him. Back in the 1980s I happened to be at a stop on one of Frank Tornabene’s routes (when he worked for the Chicago Sun Times) it just so happened his brother Al was with him…Al made a few comments about the Chicago Bears to me and made some funny jokes in Italian and Frank said to me I decided to bring my brother Al today because all he does is work in that pizza joint and go home at night…well obviously nothing could have been father from the truth.

I never heard of the man (Al Tornabene) all these years until Nick Calabrese exposed him as a silent member of the mob. I obviously new Frank was connected and usually the people working for him when he did his Sun Times routes was 3 black kids all associated with the Black Stone Rangers aka El Rukns street gang.

But I reiterate lack of murder does not mean lack of “organized” crime…what’s murder have to do with anything anyhow??? But if somebody has to GO than they will…et al Zizzo, the hit attempt out in Park Ridge and the 3rd world (Dominican Republic, Aruba and Jamaica) kidnappings and murders of men associated to gambling in the past years. Being “organized” is exactly what it means…they wouldn’t call these bad guys “organized criminals” if they weren’t in fact organized…You get me? There are made guys out their the gov’t will never find out about…and if it wasn’t for Nick Calabrese…Al Tornabene would of just been another old Italian guy that died of natural causes in May of 2009. The Gov’t does realize this.

People think the Outfit is dead…if 100 guys tomorrow showed up from out of town and said they was taking over a certain area in any of Chicago. I can guarantee that 50 of those 100 guys would disappear within 6 months. And the other 50 if smart would get the picture. And if push came to shove one of the many notorious black street gangs with here in Chicago would get the contract and would pull of the “extracurricular” without a doubt…these gangs (and police) kill for less in this city. And will do work for the Outfit.

I’ll end with this note. Chicago is the most violent city in America we have a murder rate that exceeds that of LA and NYC (a city I might add that has 15 million more people than Chicago)…your not going to come anywhere in this city and expect to take over something or don’t think something exist. This city I have come to love and hate at times will make you a believer in a hot minute. We’ve got alderman in the city council that where former gang members and connected to the mafia. That’s nothing I’m proud of “but people are entitled to their own opinions not their own facts !”

As far as Joe Fosco safety goes I don’t think Joe has anything to worry about. Joe is nothing more than a pain in the ass to some of the Outfit guys…As long as Joe doesn’t affect their money or pull a take over well then he wont be harmed in my humble opinion. Joe would have to have worn a wire on some of these guys for them to be really concerned and then turn to deadly measures…and if that is not the case than these Outfit guys won’t care what Joe does “big deal if he has a forum…that’s the times we live in”….however if its found out Joe is working for the Government and was wearing a wire on some of these bad guys years ago…he should be highly concerned for his safety. But Joe is not a stupid guy.

You saw what happened to that guy who was going to testify in that small state of Illinois case (compared to RICO cases) against Frank Caruso jr. They made him a believer with one in the chest DOA. But if I was Joe I would be cautious just because better safe than sorry. As stated before Chicago like any other city will make you a believer in a heartbeat. Ciao.

Mark

I think your contention is that the Outfit is as strong as ever, just smaller. That’s patently ridiculous. Capone’s mob made far more money in NON-ADJUSTED dollars per year than the Outfit brings in today. Under Accardo the Outfit controlled all the rackets west of the Mississippi, virtually controlled Chicago, Las Vegas and even Hollywood to a degree.

According to federal estimates the Outfit now makes about $100 million a year with something like 50 “made” members, although I think that number was published in the early 2000s, so I would guess it’s about half of that now, mostly old guys who probably are not involved in any criminal activity any more anyway.

Common sense tells you that the Outfit is never going to be what it was due to immigration patterns. The mob of Capone and Accardo could never exist today because most Italians have assimlliated and the giant urban ghettos where the mob grew up like swamp bacteria are a thing of the past. Even in the 80s these old city neighborhoods existed to a degree but they’re gone, with a few very minor exceptions.

Also as Joe has pointed out, the Outfit used to attract smart, capable, very poor men from bad neighborhoods, men who basically had to choose between being a milk delivery man the rest of their lives or something similar or joining the Outfit. Those days are long gone; any Italian American with half a brain can go to law school, become a doctor, a trader and so on. Guess who that leaves to join the Outfit? That’s right, the dummies!

Yes there will always be a few guys running around calling themselves the Outfit but the Outfit is almost dead. The feds guess they make about $100 million a year total from 400 illegal poker machines in Ciciero. Capone and Accardo I imagine would find that pretty humorous.
- Joseph Fosco
  
  Dear Mark,
  My guess would be that the FBI is five times too high in their estimation of what the Outfit brings in a year over the last 10-years.
  - Mr. Jingledonkey
    
    Ha ha. People still want to believe in the Outfit (those MOTHERS!) the way 4th-graders want to believe in Santa.
    
    The Outfit pulls in peanuts. Jimmy Marcello’s son owns a legit cartage business in the Western Suburbs. He probably pulls in more on the legit than the entire stupid ass Outfit.
    
    The Outfit (those MOTHERS!) is dead. East Coast mafia is on a steep decline to. There’s no mafia (LOL) presence in Brooklyn anymore.
    
    Solly D (that MOTHER!) more $ than Gotti (LOL LOL LOL).
    - Logic
      
      Maybe the Outfit wants you to believe they pull in peanuts (those mothers) but I have a hard time calling guys like DeLaurentis, Giorango, Joe Belli or Frank Milito or Mike Zitello “Peanuts.”
      
      Or Jimmy Marcello for that matter…its quite obvious it still exists and quite obvious there are still ways to make money.
  - Mark
    
    That doesn’t surprise me, Joe.
    - Mark
      
      But they do have peanut-sized brains, since they could have made an honest living doing something else. Unfortunately one is left to conclude that their self-assessment was that they weren’t intelligent enough to compete honestly, and thus cheated. And not just cheated but have to resort to threats of violence to get what they want, like a retarded fifth grader. Idolize them if you want they are low-life imbeciles. Heaven forbid you ever have a problem with one or you will really find out how mean and dumb they are.
Annoyed

Hey, I know this is old and all but just felt the need to comment. As a family member of Al Tornabene I get very annoyed when people who know nothing present facts they heard on the news and try to act like they know the people. If you knew Al you would know that he did not have a brother named Frank. He had Roy, Sam and a sister Tina. I grew up with my family, so I think I know the members. This stupid story comes back to haunt my family every day. We have no ties to Frank Tornabene, the reporters investigating the story have no clue what they are talking about. I have no reason to lie, as their is enough said of my family without making false claims and adding people because they share a name. I grew up with a lot of the people you guys have been discussing and they were all good to me in my childhood. I do not support the choices they made, but I dont hide from them either. Its a part of life, being related to certain people, just please stop tying me to people i have never met.
- Lack Bangelo
  
  You’re responding to a comment from a contributor who Joe blocked. He seems to have read every Outfit related document on the web and drawn these wild inferences, which he posted here. Try not to be too bothered by it. I recently read an item somewhere that basically clarified Al’s family relationships, as you just did. (Although, it did say that he was Sam Carlisi’s cousin.) Take care.

deuce

hey logic & all the other outfitters on here,

someone explain to me how come there are so many independent bookmakers now at the CME.

even into the 1990′s you couldn’t turn around without tripping over an outfit or outfit-connected bookie down there.

what happened? if you ask me it’s because they’re not afraid of the outfit anymore.they can tell them to f-off without repercussions.

Joseph Fosco

Dear Deuce,
I agree.
- George Glassss (Jan’s boyfriend from the Brady Bunch)
  
  Dear Joe,
  
  Frank “Gumba” Saladino was found dead in a hotel in Hampshire, Illinois. FBI agent Robert Grant said there was no indication of foul play, and he did not believe Saladino, 59, had killed himself. Grant said $25,000 in cash and $70,000 in checks were recovered at the scene. Michael Ricci has also died.
  
  What do you make of this? Furthermore, I remember you mentioning something about LaValley being deceased recently. What do you make of this?
  
  Do you think that any of these could be ‘family secrets’ related? What was ‘Gumba’ doing with all that cash at the time of his death?
  - Joseph Fosco
    
    Dear George,
    I will look into this for you. It is somewhat interesting.
Mr. Jingledonkey

The only Outfit connected guys down at CME anymore are the kids of made guys, who all have seats now. Dom Cortina’s son is down there, I think.

Tomatoes Marino (that MOTHER!) used to oversee CBOT books. Solly D (that MOTHER!) had some guys down there too.

Probably all of this was under the jurisdiction of Cuckold Infelise (LOL — that MOTHER!)

Jackie (that MOTHER!) and Ann??? Are you kidding me (LOL)
- bag of bones
  
  Who is “tomatoes” and why is he important?
  
  Why do you know so much about Delaurentis? Every time you’re on here you mention him, followed by ‘that m*ther.’
  
  Does anyone know if DeLaurentis is still an important figure?
  - Joseph Fosco
    
    Dear Bag,
    He is not an important figure.
    - Logic
      
      Tomatoes in in prison and has been for a few decades…I would assume DeLaurentis is a major figure in Lake County.
- bag of bones
  
  Who is Cuckold Infelise? Where are you getting these names?

deuce

what the hell does this mean, black angelo?

“Imagine on May 17 2009 another Italian guy just would of died in Chicago and no one outside of his family would of blinked an eye. But of course that is not what happened because Nick Calabrese exposed him.”

?

Logic

That no one knew who Alphonse Tournabene was prior to Calabrese exposing him. He was boss, yet even the FBI assumed he was a retired associate.

Scary to think they can outsmart the Feds in the modern era…

Black Angelo

Dear Deuce it means exactly what is stated no one knew of Al Tornabene being a made man in the Chicago Outfit and having an elite position in the organization until he was a in his late 70s or so. I believe Tornabene might have been exposed prior to Calabrese. But in fact Nick Calbrese exposed him as having a much powerful position than anyone expected. So he glamourized Al. If he wouldn’t of done that…Al would of died peacefully…no cameras at his door etc etc. I know he never got arrested.

In terms of their being alot of independent bookmakers at the CME. And how would you know their independent anyhow?? Thats strange. I see know wide ranging truth to any of that. I do know theirs been bombings and dissapearances all in the last 7 years here for various purposes. If the Outfit was gone none of this would of remotely happened.

And I believe Chris Cardi was connected with John DiFronzo in a loan sharking operation based out of Elmwood Park…they was called the 3 minute gang or something to that tune. Joe might no more about that. I do think Chris Cardi was a cop and a drug dealer all at the same time. Ciao.

Father Guido

Pizza Al has been around for a long time call him a sleeper or whatever but he was a known oc guy for al long time. He has no bodies thats why your calling him a “suprise” fact of the matter is both Tournebene’s are a direct link between cicero,26th st, and the bosses. They were trusted money handlers for 40 years. Auippa used him in the making of calabrese’s,marcello, solly d etc to establish authority as they knew Pizza Al would likely remain on the “outside” Aleman and Butchie shot Chris Cardi.
Gumba was on the lamb from another case but didnt know they had him under on family secrets.

bag of bones

Tornabene had nothing to do with the making of DeLaurentis.

DeLaurentis was made with Matassa in the late-1980′s in a “ceremony” held by Vincent Solano and Aiuppa.

Joe, did you know about Tornabene before he came out in the news? Also, is he as big of a deal as people are making him out to be on this thread?

Joseph Fosco

Dear Bag,
Aiuppa was in prison in the late 80′s. Joe Ferriola had a lot to do with DeLaurentis being ‘made’.
I heard of Tornabene before he was splashed around in the news. No, he was not as big of a deal as the recent splash had made him.
Father Guido

bag of bones, your right about Delaurentis he was not made with by Tournebene and Auippa Zizzo, and I do not wish to portray Tournebene as being all that important other than he was “trusted” and Marcello relied on him to help his brother. Points on here are correct but the gambling numbers 15-20 years ago were around that 100 million mark, now there are “legal” opportunities to gamble at the boats and online. Who sponsered Mattasa I dont think he has any profile whatsoever. You never get into Lombardo, but he was very smart with his money, what does DiFronzo think of Lombardo? What does jingledonkey mean with THAT MOTHER stuff?
- Joseph Fosco
  
  Dear Father,
  On one occasion several years ago I mentioned something humorous to Johnny DiFronzo about Joe Lombardo, my read on Johnny’s response told me that he had somewhat of an affection for Lombardo. However, I guess I could be wrong. I will double check with one of my sources.
  - http://AmericanNewsPost Ugotz472
    
    Did Lombardo and DiFronzo grow up/come from the same neighborhood(Grand Ave.)? I thought I might have read somewhere that DiFronzo was a graduate of/or at least attended for a time, Wells H.S. on Ashland and Augusta. Wondering if Difronzo was initially in the Grand Ave. crew? How/why did he end up in the Elmwood Pk bunch?
    - Joseph Fosco
      
      Dear Ugotz,
      
      I believe that DiFronzo and Lombardo are both from the Grand Avenue neighborhood. I am not sure about the status of their relations as youngsters.
      Lombardo was likely affiliated with the Elmwood Park based faction of the Chicago Outfit for no other reason than old man Jack Cerone being in charge of it. Apparently, Lombardo had a quality that appealed to some of the bosses, which included Cerone.
    - Mark
      
      Lombardo at least is from there he lived near there his whole life and used to eat at La Scarola.
    - Joseph Fosco
      
      Dear Mark,
      Yes, I met his acquaintance at La Scarola many times, as it was a regular spot for my dining experiences as well.
    - Mark
      
      It’s a great restaurant!
- Mr. Jingledonkey
  
  Whadda I mean by that MOTHER! ??? I calling him a motherf—er because these Outfit guys are jokes. Joe and I know some of these guys. Maybe some you other people, too. They’re all a bunch of jadrools (LOL LOL)– except maybe a few guys. late-Don Angel was semi-OK. Not a killer, probably–an book worm, not a rough guy. The outfit still has a chance if jimmy light wins his appeal. if not kiss em goodbye.
  
  Spina??? LOL
  
  Solly D’s (that MOTHER!) got a way with murder. i think his 15+ years in the can was enough to scare him into not being visible.

bag of bones

Matassa was sponsored by Vince Solano who was a good pal of Mike Glitta and old man Matasssa. Solano was made to promise that he’d “take care” of Pudge Matassa after Glitta and old man Matassa passed away. Thus, the making of Pudge.

Father Guido

bones,
do you consider Matassa a gangster?

Joe,
Do your or your souces consider Matassa a gangster? or a not so much. He grew up in it and knows the boys but is he in or out. I aint buying it. He was boyhood freind of Micky Marcello, correct?
- Joseph Fosco
  
  Dear Father,
  I believe Matassa is ‘made’, however he is looked upon by many Outfit guys and associates as a goof, like Fratto.
  - Rich Bracegirdle
    
    Joe, wasn’t Matassa involved in the attempted murder of Senese, according to your other piece?
    
    Matassa is definitely made. Somewhere on the web, there was some information about him being swabbed in connection with some crime.
    
    There’s also this, which is very interesting (but long): http://www.ipsn.org/laborers/transcripts/cdc-10-21-1997.htm
    
    and this: http://blogs.suntimes.com/mob/2007/12/the_feds_draw_a_bead_on_pudgy.html
    - Joseph Fosco
      
      Dear Rich,
      I never said he was not ‘made’. Yes, Matassa was involved in the botched Senese hit.
    - Father Guido
      
      All that ISPN stuff was to get him out of the union, like he was the heir to Accardo LMAO. and the swap was just bs the G came up with to scare Ambrose. Ambrose’s old man was CPD so was Matassa’s. He has no profile. Logic is Matassa or Nick Boscarino the head of the Outfit? Where’s Jingledonkey (THAT MOTHER)
    - Mr. Jingledonkey
      
      Matassa, LOL!!! (that MOTHER!)
      
      Ha ha! I read that whole ISPN-thing. Pudge mentions banana splits. (I’m not kidding—read it!!!) Also something about not being “good for the figure” LMFAO

bag of bones

Mr. Jingledonkey,

Don’t be one of these guys who knows something and just lurks the threads to laugh at those of his who are piecing things together. If you have something to say, then say it. Drop a bombshell. I can assure you that it would be appreciated.

Logic,

What do you know about DeLaurentis, and why do you think he is big in Lake COunty (his old territory) if Joe says that he’s not an important figure.

brian

purported interest in this “joe belli” has far surpassed the nick gio thing. joe seems even less interested in belli than gio.

Joseph Fosco

The only ‘Joe Belli’ I am aware of is a man that kisses Johnny DiFronzo’s butt. If it is the same ‘Joe Belli’, he is not an Outfit guy.
Johnny usually avoids being around other Outfit guys in public. He likes to pal around with non-threats. I know Johnny was exposed via Chuck Goudie while having lunch with Marco; all I can say is that he has known Marco for so long that he feels comfortable with him (and Marco is truly not a ‘made’ guy, despite his past dealings in Outfit rackets and current dealings with Tony Dote).
One time in the late 1990’s Michael Magnafichi asked me to arrange a lunch date with Willie Messino to take place at Horwath’s Restaurant in Elmwood Park, Illinois (the restaurant is no longer there, although I heard a rumor that it might open up again at a different location in Elmwood Park). Willie told me “tell Mike to make it at another restaurant because Johnny goes in there and I don’t want to hear him if he sees us there, he’ll think were having a ‘meeting’.” In other words, Willie taught me that Johnny does not want exposure to any Outfit business whatsoever. In addition, I saw that Johnny maintains significant influence over Outfit guys, regardless of his ‘hands-off’ approach. When I reiterated the message to Michael, he agreed.
Due to what I have shared above, I do not believe that the purported infamous dinner with all the gangsters and the late mayor of Rosemont, supposedly taking place at the old Armand’s Restaurant (in Elmwood Park, Illinois) ever occurred. Stephens’ would not meet with gangsters in a million years, especially at that time in his life. DiFronzo, Andriacchi and Lombardo would also not meet in public at that time in their lives (late 1990’s). To imagine those three gangsters meeting with Stephens and Stephens being amenable to that is as far fetched as Osama Bin Laden meeting with U.S. Attorney Pat Fitzgerald for lunch at Rudy Fratto’s favorite restaurant, the cafeteria in the federal building. In addition, Willie Messino was retired and would have no place at such meeting. And Rudy Fratto was never on any level close to the level DiFronzo, Andriacchi and Lobardo were on, therefore, Fratto would have no place at such meeting either. The information concerning the imaginary meeting that was introduced to the Illinois Gaming Board was nothing but a bunch of lies from a government informant that has succeeded in wining over the confidence of law enforcement, which under different circumstances would be a good thing. However, this particular informant is nothing but a dirty rotten liar and his lies cost a legitimate town like Rosemont a valuable business opportunity. Instead, the business opportunity was awarded to a town (Des Plaines, Illinois) with a mayor that appears in photos published on the City of Des Plaines website doing what Stephens was falsely accused of doing – associating with the Outfit. The more I think about it the more I dislike Illinois and its corrupt group of politicians.
- brian
  
  thank you for clearing the air on joe belli.
  
  seems then that belli is a legit guy who only kisses up to gangsters. maybe like marcello and nick vangel.
  
  marcello called vangel “reinhardt schwimmer” behind his back because vangel was a legit guy whose boat was “floated” by hanging out with gangsters. reinhardt schwimmer was a non-gangster who was killed in the saint valentines day massacre for covorting with gangsters.
  
  the more i think about it, the more it seems that people are right about marcello being the last gangster in chicago. maybe if he wins his appeal, the outfit will have a chance to come back, but without him, i just don’t see it.
  
  i’m having lunch with someone i’m friends with who is in il. law enforcement. it will be interesting to hear his agency’s current off-the-record opinion on the outfit.
- Logic
  
  So Stephens wouldn’t have a “meeting” with gangsters, but be dumb enough to purchase a hotel from the boss at the time (Sam Giancana)? I’m sure he had to have had a meeting to do that.
  
  He also held high profile relationships with Jeeps Daddino, Nick Boscarino and a few other known associates. I understand Jeeps was a friend, but just plain dumb to offer an Outfit associate a job when you are a mayor (and already accused of Outfit associations.) Kind of like lighting a match and throwing it in a firework store, then wondering why people are upset with you when it blows up.
  
  Give me a break….
  - Joseph Fosco
    
    Dear Logic,
    Would you consider the new owner of Giancana’s house in Oak Park, Illinois, a gangster since a gangster previously owned it?
    The current mayor of Des Plaines has associated with several Outfit affiliates; some were actually photographed with him and posted on the city of Des Plaines website. It is not fair that Stephens was screwed out of the casino deal for being accused of the same stuff the present Des Plaines mayor is obviously proud of doing.
    - Logic
      
      Joe–
      
      Purchasing a home and a business are very different things. You may say he did that to drive Giancana out of Rosemont, but there were other avenues to do that that made more sense…he was the Mayor for Christ sake.
      
      I do know that he drove Rocco Potenza out and wasn’t responsible for the D&P bid in Rosemont.
      
      Yet you fail to mention his links to Nick Boscarino and the Mike Daddano…he even started a business with these guys. If they are just kids of mobsters, then why would they continue to associate with mobsters like they do? Especially in Nick’s case, since they murdered his father? I don’t buy it…Boscarino is in bed with these guys and Stephens should have been smarter.
    - Joseph Fosco
      
      Dear Logic,
      Yes, the purchase of a home has much more personal meaning.
      Nick Bascarino threatened Joey A several years ago that he would go to the FBI because he felt as if he was being targeted in an extortion plot. With that in mind, how is Nick’s association an issue? Who is Mike Daddano?
      If Stephens were any smarter, he would have been God.
      What about the mayor of Des Plaines (Illinois)? Stephens is gone – Des Plaines is the problem now.
    - Joseph Fosco
      
      Dear Logic,
      
      If we were talking about John Gacy (who probably did not kill as many people as Giancana), would you rather buy Gacy’s business property or his home to live in? I would go with the business property. Both homes (Gacy’s and Giancana’s) had basements that were used as a death chamber. I think it is far more serious of a moral issue to buy the home of an evildoer, rather than a great piece of real estate located in an area that is considered a goldmine.
      
      Again, what does it make the person that bought Giancana’s house?
      
      Are you considering the idea of contacting the employer of the man or woman that owns Giacana’s home, informing the employer that there is a Giancana connection? The answer is ‘no’, because that would be as ridiculous as I think it is to make an issue out of Stephens purchasing Giancana’s business property.
    - i call b.s. on the chicago outfit myth
      
      Joe,
      
      Thank you for bringing to light the fact that this meeting never took place. I believe that one of the alleged attendees was under surveillance at the time, as well.
      
      The idea the Outfit’s Triumvirate would meet in a restaurant with a mayor is preposterous.
    - Joseph Fosco
      
      Dear I call,
      Preposterous indeed.

Black Angelo

This is in response to “Bag of Bones” who asked about Solly DeLaurentis earlier…Joe Fosco and I have a long back and forth on him in the “Aiuppa order’s hit, Armands Delivers” thread…its near the end of the postings/threads.

I just wanted to comment on Marco Damico not being made (or maybe being made). Well who cares ! I’d rather be a connected Marco Damico any day…then a “made” Michael Sarno type. My source says Marco was made along long time ago in 1969 w/ Anthony Centraccio and Butch Petrocelli. I’m not sure if Pete DiFronzo was made then (after he got out of Leavenworth )…they gave Marco the Survivor Club on Taylor Street he was there for 18 years scheming.

Then in 1987 he moved out to Elmwood Park and set up shop at a beautiful location (The Elmwood Park Social Club)…you have to understand the Outfit ain’t just going to let any “local joker” have his own social club in the heart of Elmwood Park. Knowing my source and knowing how Taylor Street was in the 1970s and how Elmwood Park was in the 1980s its my guestemation that Marco is for sure made.

I’m told he’s so friggin clever he acts like he’s not made to made guys so he can never get tied into a situation. When “Pudgy” Matassa got made … it was said Marco was mad because he did not get “made” that day in 1988.. This too was another one of his diversion tactics that’s clever … tricks to make people think he was not made … and it seems to work. He even challenged the Gov’t to prove he is a “made” guy lol…but then he balked. The only people that know Marco is made is John DiFronzo, Guy Damico, Jackie Cerone, Joey Aiuppa, Butch Petrocelli, and Anthony Centraccio (and the latter 5 are all dead…Guy just died). I think Harry Aleman knew also and Pete DiFronzo know’s he’s a made guy also. I don’t even think Tony Dote knows lol. My 2 cents on that.

I’m told Cerone didn’t like Marco that much, but Aiuppa loved him ! Knew Marco since he was a baby and sponsored his brief boxing career in the 1950s and also bribed the Cook County judge in helping Marco get off on a gambling charge in 1958. With Aiuppa and John DiFronzo’s backing they trumped Cerone. Accardo/Ricca/ Ross Prio didn’t care and they like big earners anyhow…Marco is an earner and a killer and he knows a lot of “capable“ guys till this day in fact. Marco has his flaws (like drinking) but he is smart with his money (multi millionaire) and is very very clever on the streets and also when he did his prison time at Milan.

He was locked up in Milan, Michigan where Marcello was and the Calabreses and the Government could never get Marco talking about anything related to Organized Crime with ANYBODY !! He played cards all day (in the joint) and never talked OC with any of the big mouths (John DiFronzo defiantly groomed him well !) All he ever asked about was Michael Rominger’s multi-million Construction company based out of Naperville and how that was doing. (One of Marco’s daughters is married to him.)…I know some people will disagree that he’s a made guy but you would have no way of knowing because this guy is extremely clever and It is my belief when John Difronzo does die… Marco (not Pete) will rear his head as the BOSS…I believe the transition has already been set up back in 2006.

Bob Coffee

You realize that if what you’re saying is true, then the whole “made” thing is moot, right? What wold be the point?

Joe, what do you think of this theory–that Marco is not only made, but will be the next boss?
- Joseph Fosco
  
  Dear Bob,
  Marco is not ‘made’ and will not be the next boss. Marco was finally offered the opportunity to be ‘made’ a couple of years ago and turned it down; therefore, he certainly would not have an interest in being boss.
i call b.s. on the chicago outfit myth

Marco D’Amico is secretly made???

This is one of the most peculiar things I have ever heard on here.

If nearly everyone who knew D’Amico was formally initiated into the Outfit has passed away (with the exception of John and Peter DiFronzo), the remaining “members” are going to double over with laughter when he says, “uh, I’m the boss now. I was secretly ‘made’ a long, long time ago, and no one even knows except for Peter.”

Come on now!

(Joe, I realize that you understand the silliness of this theory. I hashed out this scenario out–à la reductio ad absurdum–for the benefit of Black Angelo in order to get him to see the craziness of his belief. Thank you.)

Black Angelo, what you are calling “clever” is more likely to be “disinterest” and “fatigue,” in actuality.

Marco was a troublemaker and a liability to the organization. Despite the fact that he may have been well-like by DiFronzo, he was passed over because of these reasons. Stop trying to develop a mythology around an uninteresting “mob” figure.

Black Angelo

The whole made thing would not be moot…It could be moot if your willing to believe Joe Fosco…because if Marco is turning down becoming a “made member” then I think its safe to say he (Marco) knows something all of us don’t in terms of “real power”…you get me?? Marco is made and I have enough evidence to support that. My source right off the top is aces … The respect Marco was shown by made guys in the 1970s, 80s, 90s…his earning ability. His enormous crew. His capable crew. His relationship to John DiFronzo and Aiuppa. His power in the suburbs (the guy bit a Palatine Police Officers finger off and then got him canned to add insult to injury…for even pulling him over in the first place lol).

And most importantly he was given the Survivor Club on Taylor in 1969 (or allowed to claim it as his and operate out of it for 18 years) and of course given Elmwood Park and its social club out their in the mid 1980s. His powerful grip on gambling in Chicago-land from 1969 – 94 … There is no way in hell Marco is not made and my source is pretty sharp. The becoming the next Boss of the OUTFIT thing might be a stretch I admit…but knowing Marco and how he is…he’d probably have you believing Pete or somebody else was boss … when he in fact would be the one in total control. (kind of like how the media and the general public thought Ferriola was boss over DiFronzo … when that’s exactly what John DiFronzo wanted the masses to believe.)…

Marco is cunning enough to portray he is not a made guy…in that all the many of many associates who are not made can never “flip” one day and tie Marco into a RICO because of his powerful position. It was said Sarno offered Marco a chance at being made. If true and was true…Sarno has no idea Marco is made. And of course Marco would turn it down (and I’ve already explained why). John DiFronzo got a laugh out of that. Because Marco is so cunning…Sarno believes the guy (Marco) isn’t made and is offering him something that’s already been established. Very very interesting to say the least.

I do know the FBI CHICAGO-Gov’t has only 2 good sources (not 8 like they said previous in the 90s) that they know unequivocally that Marco is in fact made. I guess the bigger question would be when in the hell did Michael “Fat Ass” Sarno get made ?? Was it before 1993 when he was in his 20’s or 30s or was it after 1999 (when he got out of the joint)….so your meaning to tell me Sarno got made in his 20s or the Outfit bosses opened “the books” after 1999. Hmmmm. I’m going to have to check on that. Marco is made, Sarno isn’t that’s more plausible given the facts than anything. I know Marco is much more powerful than a Sarno.

Joseph Fosco

Dear Black,
Your source is flat out wrong – Marco is not ‘made’. I will not address this issue again.
- Logic
  
  While I agree with Angelo that Marco is made, given his status and power, I believe the Surivor’s Club was actually the headquarters for Harry Aleman and the Wild Bunch in the early 70s…not Marco.
  
  I believe in 1969 Marco was on Rush Street…he used to own Jilly’s or another place, didn’t he?

made up

we were all made the day we were born

Joseph Fosco

Dear Made,
That is what Michael Magnafichi says. I remember I was in on a meeting with Michael, Jackie (Esq.) and a couple of guys from the Cleveland Outfit a little more than 10-years ago, and one of the Cleveland guys asked Michael when he was ‘made’. Michael said, “The day I was born.”

made up

the man can turn a phrase

Joseph Fosco

http://cpedia.com/wiki?q=Rudy+Fratto&guess_ambig=Chicago+Crime+Fratto+Rudy+Fratto+William+Hanhardt+detectives+

???

Whether he realizes it or not, the upshot of Black Angelo’s argument–that Marco is made but no one knows it–is that being made is of no significance in Chicago, unlike in actual La Cosa Nostra in NY, PA, and other places out East.

Joseph Fosco

Dear ???,
I agree.

Harry Flugleman

This is for Black Angelo:

Sarno has been heavy–and I’m not talking about his weight–since the eighties. Yes, he was a young man back then. So what?

Sarno was involved in the adult book shop vandalism caper that resulted in the shooting murder of Michael Oliver. Sarno had been in the company of now- deceased Outfit legends back when he was in his twenties–for example, he was a “runner” for Al Tornabene. (Sarno is also related to Jimmy I., which is widely known.) Plus, Sarno was named as a top threat to Nick Calabrese–BY Nick Calabrese–only a few years ago, according to the FBI. And then there’s the whole bombing incident; obviously, Sarno has “enough” to order something like that. There’s a lot more about Sarno, and I could go on about it, but I don’t want to spread it (some of which is gossip) all over the internet. The point is: of course Sarno is made! Regardless of what that little mouse in your pocket—who is your source—whispers into your ear.

Joe, correct me if I am wrong, but you have two main sources, both of whom are made (one who is elderly and one who is, shall we say, “younger”), right? As far as I am concerned, they are extremely reliable, as many of your articles and more substantial thread comments have been corroborated by the mainstream media some months after these stories have surfaced here at American News Post. (For the doubters, look no further than Joe’s remarks regarding Fratto, Esq., and the Cleveland Outfit, all of which came to light in Chicago’s m.s.m. in the form of Fratto’s bid-rigging indictment.)

Now, Joe is telling us that there is no way that Marco is made, which is consistent with Marco’s reputation as a heavy drinker and cop-magnet troublemaker. This is not to say that Marco isn’t well-liked or trusted to some extent; it’s just that he’s not inner sanctum material. Maybe he wasn’t caught on tape in prison with Marcello, et al., because he was completely out-of-the-loop. Who knows? You do not have any evidence that he “kept his mouth shut” precisely BECAUSE he’s high-flying made guy. You seem to suffer from the same affliction as some other commenters on here—you somehow try to take a lack of evidence, or evidence to the contrary, to mean that your Outfit theories are correct. That’s absurd.

Black Angelo, your credibility is waning on here. If you insist on being this anonymous expert Outfit watcher who pops-in during the wee hours of the morning to grace us with inside material you have gleaned from a source, then PLEASE get a new source.

Joseph Fosco

Dear Harry,
You are correct, my sources have been ‘made’ by the Chicago Outfit – young and old. A third source is Johnny DiFronzo himself. He told me that Joe Gags brought him in. He also told me that no one was closer to Jack Cerone (the Outfit boss) after Gags died than him – DiFronzo. Some people refuse to believe that he told me these things because he is not a storyteller. However, he did tell me these things. Johnny knew that I was close with Clara Cerone, Charlie Nicosia, Willie Messino and Romie Nappi – four people that he trusted well. I believe that he let his guard down a little with me because of my background. He was also aware that I was financially ‘giving’, which always makes Johnny happy.
Logic

Harry–Sarno and Jimmy I are only related through the marriage of their kids. Little Sammy Inendino married Nicole Sarno a few years ago. Probably a huge boost for Inendino, a rough guy who has been around forever, but never on a leadership level.

Black Angelo

Joe, That’s a good article on Fratto..i’m curious to see what will happen in his next fed case.

I guess at the end of the day if one had and still has the money Marco has accumulated and the power he had and still does in Chicago maybe the whole being “made” thing means nothing. Nothing at all !! .. and John DiFronzo knows this. In fact are we willing to believe Nick Calabrese … in that a half Irish guy one Jimmy Marcello is and was inducted as a made guy. Is their any other evidence that he was made that day other than from Nick Calabrese saying so. Chicago guys new Sam (Jimmy’s dad) and they knew Lil Jimmy’s mom was Irish…and the bosses overlooked this?? Forgetaboutit or maybe they just did not care ! But that’s not to say Jimmy is not powerful. This is not NYC you do not have to be “made” in order to accumulate massive amounts of power or be feared.

I do know ex FBI agent Roemer had very good sources and you can say what you want about Roemer and some of his outlandish tales in certain books, but even mob guys (like Infelise caught on a wire) said “Roemer don’t lie and knows what he’s talking about”…anyhow one of Roemers sources Dick Cain (who was said to be a cop and made guy at the same time) said Marco Damico was a major player in the early 1970s in trying to take over gambling…Dick Cain was in fact murdered before he could report back to Roemer however. Ironically the Gov’t thought Marco Damico was more powerful than John DiFronzo in the 1970s (according to informants, and flow charts)…but obviously they was wrong as DiFronzo reared his head in the 1980s.

There is this myth I guess on here that Marco “was a troublemaker and a liability to the organization.”…that is nonsense on its face. The guy was a tremendous earner, and brilliant with his investments, and at the same time was very much a “goon” a real gangster. Marco was a strange guy an a enigma … in that he could be a troublemaker in terms of his “off the wall” ruthlessness, but the guy never spent a night in jail until he was 58 years old … And that indictment in 1994 when he was 58 was a fluke !! And John DiFronzo and a whole host of other Chicago mob guys would agree.

Marco was caught talking on a wire to a man he’d know for 20 years, a man he trusted to scheme with and on top of everything else dis guy an attorney for Christ sakes ! Nobody in their right mind would of expected this. Even John DiFronzo himself is lucky he skated and didn’t get caught up in that RICO case himself. DiFronzo was comfortable with the same attorney. DiFronzo is caught on wire talking to this same attorney “acting like the boss or a man in a powerful position”…The Government even has John DiFronzo talking to this attorney (Cooley) and mentioning Marco’s power…and the Gov’t was ready to prove to Marco and the Federal Court that he was in fact made. But Marco for smart and good reason balked and backed off.

Till this day I have know idea how DiFronzo escaped indictment on that…it seems the Gov’t didn’t really want him…they wanted Marco and “some” of his crew. John DiFronzo knows most definitely that that indictment on Marco was a fluke. Marco maybe a troublemaker and some sort of bs liability to the Outfit (lol) as some seem to think on here, but he sure is hell is no fool ! Marcello and the Calabrese are more of a liability than Marco. When they was in Milan the Marcellos and Frank Calabrese was very much a liability w/ their mouths and hand gestures. The Gov’t not one time saw Marco even close to talking about Organized crime or even swipe his nose (motioning John DiFronzo in code). The guy is sharp and no fool unlike others.

By the way “logic”… “I believe” you are correct about Marco and Jilly’s on Rush in the late 1960s and 1970s. I guess the guys down their at the time for the Outfit Glitta/Solano/ and Divarco let Marco do whatever the hell he pleased…out of fear or out of respect. But Marco was everywhere at that time and Gov’t could not figure out if he belonged to Cicero (because of Aiuppa), the Wild Bunch, Elmwood Park, or Rush Street. I’m not sure if Marco ever messed around in the 26th street area (Bridgeport/Chinatown). I know those guys respected and feared him though. I know Toots Caruso and others used to kiss Marco’s ass at the nightclubs on Rush in the 1960s and 1970s.

But I disagree w/ you “logic” on the Survivors Club I was told Marco was given the original key to open the joint “it was his” …but everybody came through their at one time or another like: Butch, Jimmy I, Tony Borsellino, Harry (almost everyday), the Calabreses, even a young Mike Sarno (ironically) and even John DiFronzo (maybe that’s why the G then thought Marco was John DiFronzo’s boss lol). John DiFronzo did not go their as much as those aforementioned guys, but he would show up maybe twice a year. I think he was at Gene’s Deli a lot out in EP. He kept a low profile in those years.

I just think Harry Aleman and Butch made the Survivors joint kind of infamous in later years. So some might think it was Harry’s joint. I sometimes tend to agree with the notion Marco ordered Harry to kill Dick Cain so he could take over gambling or eliminate the threat of Giancana/Cain possibly stepping on his toes. Although there’s a lot of theories to who and why Cain was clipped. I know Cain and Greedy Pete DiFronzo where good friends and also warehouse burglars in the 1960s.

Joseph Fosco

Dear Black,

My hunch tells me that if Rocky was caught on a wire praising Romer, it was a put-on. In other words, he probably found the wire and decided to have some fun with it, which does happen sometimes. I read parts of some of Romers books and quickly realized that he was way off base with a good portion of the information that I read. The best is his opinion that Joe Ferriola was boss of Chicago – Never!

So what if Dick Cain said Marco was a major player? That could mean he was a major gambler. I am sure that is what he meant. And if Marco were trying to take over gambling in the 70’s, how does that prove he is ‘made’? It does not.

Marco belonged to Cerone’s crew. And Cerone hated him. If it were not for the fact that Marco was a big earner, Cerone would have ran him down the street on a banana stalk. One other thing that kept Marco protected was the fact that he was the only drunk willing to stay out with Jackie Esq until 3am every night drinking with him, claiming to be keeping an eye on the bosses son.

As to your assertion that Caruso used to kiss Marco’s ass, I have two theories as to why. One, everyone knew he was with Jack’s crew, which was impressive. Two, Marco is genuinely a nice person and very generous.
- Logic
  
  Marco also got caught with his pants down in the Robert Cooley BS…you would have to be an idiot to let a wannabe like that get so close. Wasn’t he also arrested for a big fight on Rush Street one night? I believe that fight involved the Caruso brothers.
  - Eich Bin Ein Berliner
    
    Joe & Logic,
    
    Any idea if Toots is made? He is another one of these names–like Marco–that gets thrown around like he’s something. But Joe’s source was uncertain as to whether or not he was even an actual member of the Outfit.
    
    Somewhere online, there’s some information about how Toots was the Prince of Bridgeport back when his dad, Skids, was alive. Supposedly, since Toots was in his 20′s, he’s wanted to be the boss–not just of his crew–but of the whole Outfit.
    
    Supposedly, he & Shorty Lamantia had an interesting way of extracting money from debtors. Lamantia would have a talk with the debtor in his car, and if the guy was offering excuses and not money, Lamantia would say, “You see that guy [Toots] over there? He’s watching us, and if I take off my hat, he’ll come over here and shoot you in the head.”
    
    In fact, I believe Toots has been arrested for some type of handgun violation in the 70′s or 80′s, stemming from some circumstances that more or less fit the aforementioned scenario.
    - Joseph Fosco
      
      Dear Eich,
      One of my sources is inclined to believe that Toots is ‘made’.

Black Angelo

“logic” John DiFronzo got caught with his pants down too. Its just a fact that Marco and John felt they could trust him (Cooley) to a certain extent (because he knew judges and was a big gambler)…till this day I feel it was sort of entrapment on the gov’t part and also how did DiFronzo not get indicted or why didn’t the feds let that Cooley c*cksucker build a case on him. It was clear DiFronzo was comfortable with this Cooley clearing his gambling debts and talking loosely with him. But for one reason or another they (the gov’t) didn’t want No Nose. Hmmm.

Also Logic, Marco and some off-duty Chicago cop beat the living sh*t out of some guys for Bruno Caruso.
I guess they was in some club down on Division and some club-heads was giving Bruno a hard time for the way he talked and dressed (Bruno and his goomah I guess was down on Division by themselves, plus Bruno cant fight at all)…anyhow Marco and this off-duty cop came over to where the beef was taking place and gave the 2 guys a stomping. Then some Chicago cops on the Rush/Division beat came over and beat the guys a lil more to add insult to injury. I guess Bruno and the Caruso family where very grateful of the beating Marco and the cops gave those guys lol.

Marco has been in so many fights and beatings I’m not sure which ones he got arrested in or who was fighting with him (I‘ll have to ask my source on that)…I do know about that cop out in Palatine that got his finger bitten off by Marco on a DUI stop. I guess Marco said to the cop “do you know who the f*ck I am? in a drunk tone” and the cop said “no I don’t care and step out the car sir for a dui test now !”…big mistake. Marco jumped out his car and beat the cop almost to death and then bit his finger off. Very classy. Then he proceeded in driving to his home in South Barrington but some other cops pulled him over minutes later and gave him a DUI and a Battery charge. Then the cop w the missing finger got fired a week later lol. Marco got supervision from a judge! out in the Rolling Meadows courts of Cook County. Only in Chicago.

By the way Joe Fosco I agree with almost everything you say. If anything its “plausible” theories you have raised (If in fact Infelise did find that wire, he should of found BJ‘s wire lol, him and Solly both). I disagree with you on 2 pts though:

1) That Marco is a nice guy and very generous…well sure he’s a nice guy if you don’t owe him money and or he’s not drunk off his ass and wants to “gauge your eyes out” because you bumped him wrong in a crowded club. He can be generous though in bankrolling your restaurant, then looting it to collect insurance lol. That is funny what you said about him and Cerone Esq. though clubbing all night…two drunks lol. That is true.

2) I’m told Marco had his ass kissed so much because it was widely known Marco knew upwards of 50 to 100 cops in Chicago and 10 or so in Elmwood Park/ Melrose Park that where capable of performing murders, home invasions, handing out beatings and also collecting a street tax on bookmaking (I believe a cop who knew Marco “very” well was one Vito Scavo…when he was just a regular beat cop )…There was that mob boss for the Luchese Family in NYC named Anthony Gaspipe Casso who had two cops performing hits for him and other things. Well I’m told Marco and the cops he knew here would make Casso and those NYC cops look like Mickey Mouse. Not to mention Harry Aleman, Jimmy I, Butch and Tony Bore would do almost anything for him…in terms of murders and collection of street tax. Those guys helped Marco become the earner he is known to be (or at that time) I’m told even known scary guys like Frank Schweis and Tony Spilotro gave Marco a wide berth…especially when he was drinking.

Marco by the way it seems was given some “bazaar immunity” to do what he pleased and get away with it. Because guys like Butch Petrocelli and Tony Borsellino where clipped for no good reasons if you ask me, why not Marco too back then??…You can say Cerone did not like Marco which might be true Joe…but Aiuppa loved Marco and I think that on top of his earning ability gave him that “bazaar immunity” to do what he pleased. Not to mention the Outfit has always had a love affair for “crooked” cops and all those “crooked guys” was under Marco’s spell. I guess these cops where always trying to “impress” him.

By the way Marco was given the green light to form his own crew in 1969 I‘m told…I’m told he’s def made…but for the sake of argument lets say he’s NOT made…his criminal history goes so far back with the Outfit that he might be on the same scale as a John DiFronzo, Joey Lombardo, Joe Andriachhi in that nobody knows actually when they where made its just a known fact some “boss” called them in and told them they have “immunity” and to not rat on your “friends” ever and that was it.

I think when Aiuppa took over he started that east coast LCN induction ceremony bs. What do you think Joe? And do you think Marco or John DiFronzo ordered the bombing of Sharon Patrick in 1992?? They both where given subpoena’s to report to a Federal Grand Jury about her death or at least Marco and Andriacchi for sure was (I think John DiFronzo might have been indicted on that San Diego thing when Sharon was blown up). Your thoughts Joe on everything said or anybody…

Joseph Fosco

Dear Black,
I apologize for not clarifying myself when I mentioned that Marco is a nice guy. Almost everyone I know that knows him think he is a nice guy. Yes, he is perceived by many as not a nice guy.
Three guys that I know that do not like him (two are dead), Jack Cerone Sr, Willie Messino Sr, and Joe Andriacchi – that is right, Joe Andriacchi. And let me tell you something, Marco wont f*** with Joe Andriacchi (Marco knows very well that Joe does not like him). Marco could be physically tougher than Joe, but Marco is no match for Joe in the larger scheme of things.
I am reluctant to admit that Pat Marcy Okayed Bob Cooley, which is why he was trusted by many. Yes, Pat was a criminal; however, he was a very close friend of my family and for that I am sadly impaired on this matter. As much as I am against his criminal involvement, I am respectful for the personal friendship that he had with my father and uncle. As we look back, we can see that Pat was wrong to trust Bob with his racket, however, in theory I blame DiFronzo’s crew for mixing their thugs with Pat’s politicians (I realize that Bob did not hold a public office, but Pat’s guys were referred to as politicians). In theory, I feel the thugs and the Polly’s should have remained separated.
In my opinion, Joe Andriacchi and Rudy Fratto were likely involved with the bombing of the Patrick family member.
- The Don
  
  Black Angelo, Marco is full Italian. Marco was a good earner and had his own sub crew with soldiers working for him. Marco was associted with the Elmwood Park crew. Marco was not made! If the Capo of your crew doesn’t acknowledge you being ‘made’ then it’s never going to happen until the Capo goes away to jail for a long time or dies. Such are the politics within the Outfit sometimes. The only reason Marco was offered the chance to be formally made and get the full recognition he deserves, is because Jack is long gone.
  - Joseph Fosco
    
    Dear The Don,
    I would agree that Jack did not like Marco; Joey A still does not like Marco. I agree, Marco is not ‘made’, but he does have a group of loyal followers (big deal).

question for joe

joe, what do you think about the East Coast induction ceremony? when did it come to Chicago? who was mike magnafichi made with?

joe, i’m pretty sure that if your dad was made, he probably stomped some serious ass in his career. yes, i’m sorry to say that he most definitely had to wrestle people to the ground and bust some heads, now and again. i apologize if you weren’t already aware of this. at some point, i’m guessing he probably butted heads with ferriola and maybe had to teach him a lesson. yes, made guys definitely used to slap guys like ferriola and d’amico around quite a bit. i’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Joseph Fosco

Dear Question,

I believe the East Coast Induction Ceremony method was instituted in Chicago sometime in the 1930’s. I think it was After Capone went away. I will double check this.

I do not know who Magnafichi was ‘made’ with. Some things sources are unwilling to share.

The only source inside of the last 10-years that I have encountered that indicated my father as being a ‘made’ guy was one of Joe Ferriola’s sons-in-law that told me he heard it directly from his father-in-law. Honestly, I cannot say that I trust this information 100-percent. Although, I have heard it before from one other source in the late 1980’s.

My father was a union official for nearly most of my life until he died of cancer. I understand prior to his good fortune in being selected for the union position that he held, he was partnered with a man named Joe Shine and they both worked for Teets. This partnership went from the 40’s until the late 60’s.
My father’s brother-in-law, Romie Nappi was very close to Paul Ricca, which allowed my father to develop a friendship with him as well. Others my father had close relations with over the years are as follows (aside from the people already named above):

Charlie Nicosia
Pat Marcy
Tommy Ryan (father of Louie the Mooch)
Al Pilotto

My father knew many other Outfit guys; however, above I have named the ones that he was closest with.

Unfortunately, I am aware of some stories about my father that included Joe Shine, where they had to use excessive force. However, I am grateful that it occurred before my lifetime, giving me the opportunity to see the good side of a man that was my father and not the other side that once lived before my birth.

Your question about Ferriola and Marco being slapped around seems misplaced.
- Logic
  
  How did your father come to know Tommy Ryan Eboli, given he was in New York? Did Tommy Ryan come to Chicago much to visit his sons or do business with Accardo? It was interesting to hear that Louie threatened to kill Carlo Gambino after his father was killed and two Gambino hitmen showed up in Chicago looking for Louie after these threats…Accardo intervened and called Carlo, sending the hitmen packing.
Mr. Jingledonkey

the generation after JB, Mooney, Paul R., and Aiuppa were made with the dagger, gun, and Catholic stuff. Snorky (LOL! that MOTHER!) did it with a handshake, and that’s what old man roemer was talking about. the prohibition-era chicago syndicate was more of an EOE (multi national). since the 1980′s almost strictly italian…….oops forgot about casey szaflarski (LOL! LOL!)—married to shorty’s daughter.

what about aldo piscatelli?
- Logic
  
  Jinglehonkey (you mother) have your facts backwards…Toot’s son Frank Jr. is married to Casey’s daughter…need to read the Tribune closer (:):):) Aldo is still around I’m sure but lives in northern suburb I heard…mean guy he is. Probably doesn’t talk to his half brother Rocco much.

question for joe

dear joe,

are you aware that, as a made guy on the street, your pal michael mags has probably had to smack some guys around? yes, i hate to break it to you, but michael has definitely had to settle things with his bare fists, unfortunately.

i’m sure michael mags has been put into positions where he has roughed-up al tornabene and joey aiuppa, specifically, and i’m guessing that peter difronzo is definitely scared to death of him. yes, many times, i’m sure that peter runs away whenever he sees michael coming.

michael is respected as a made guy on the street, and i’m sure his made guy-dad, lee, would be proud that he has had to throttle guys who give him a hard time.

Joseph Fosco

Dear Question,

I am unable to dignify your comment about Aiuppa with a response.

Mark

Black,

Is Marco a good kisser?

Mr. Jingledonkey

LOL! LOL! LOL! !!!!

Tom J.

Joe
Haven’t wrote in a while , two things dose Rudy have any friends at his new home & who would you say are the big bookmakers in the area

Joseph Fosco

Dear Tom,
I do not know if Rudy has any friends in the big house.
Marco and his pal Tony Dote are probably running one of the biggest offices in Chicago today.

Black Angelo

Joe Fosco… I always found it ironic a guy like Joe Andriacchi would hate a Marco Damcio… but on the flip side of the coin John DiFronzo would love a guy like Marco Damico. What does Joe A see in Marco he does not like? And what does John see in Marco he does like?? I just find that interesting to say the least. Only because it’s a known fact both Andriacchi and DiFronzo have known Marco all of his natural life.. I just figure they would both hate him or both like him.. You get me Joe Fosco? I have heard John DiFronzo does not like the Marcellos (Jimmy, Michael, Rocco)… will you concur with that? Because I heard Marco likes the Marcellos… again this dynamic again would be interesting.

As to Marco being out of the loop when he was in Milan as somebody mentioned… Marco over saw the multi-million dollar Dote-Mazza Enterprise from his incareration in 1994 all the way up until “Dote and Mazza” was indicted in 2000. The Government at first tried to re-indict Marco from the fed joint but it was decided they did not have enough evidence.

I guess the general public and a few in the Government thought the Damico Enterprise was finished once its leader got put away… well that was proven to be otherwise…although I don’t think it shocked to many to see the kind of money Dote, Mazza, Cozzi, Donny Scalise, and the other Dote was rolling in up through 2000. By the way Bobby Abbinanti was released around this time and was said to have picked up where they left off lol. Him, Gunner Catapano, Pesoli and others to keep the Enterprise moving forward. I’d like to hear your answer to those aforementioned questions Joe.

Joseph Fosco

Dear Black,
I do not know why Johnny likes Marco. However, I will get an answer for you as to why Joey A does not like him.

http://3rd'stimeacharmasfrattohit'sashland franks”ville

Excellent job joe,keep up your good work.”We will be victorous,THEY will not control us” uprising by MUSE.great song give it a listen.I predict Rudy will have a massive migraine for at least a year,and I’m loving it.

Joseph Fosco

Dear Franks,
Thank you for the support, however, I do not wish to see anyone suffer. Instead, I hope he is put out of his misery.

Joseph Fosco

Dear Logic,

In response to your question as to how my father knew Tommy Ryan, I would offer the following:

The Outfit positioned my father all over the country in the late 40′s and 50′s. He told his family that he was going out of town hunting, as he was an avid hunter. Some family members suspected he was having an affair. There might have been some truth to his hunting, but he left evidence thru the IRS relating to employment situations, coupled with credible stories I heard from reliable sources that he was working odd jobs all around the country (or purporting to be working). According to the IRS, my father was employed in New York, Texas, Ohio, Michigan, as well as other parts of the country. I found his employment in Texas most interesting as the timing of it was close to (his brother-in-law) Romie Nappi and (contact-man) Jack Ruby’s Texas altercation with authorities in the late 1940’s. Others included in the Texas altercation was Pat Manno (related thru marriage to E.P. Taylor of Canada – partners of George Black, Conrad Black’s now late father) and Butch Blasi – both were among those involved in the Ruby/Texas altercation. My friend Willie Messino remembered the altercation very well. According to Willie, he was sent to Texas with an attorney from Chicago to get a bond for the fellows – he traveled to Texas by train. As it turned out, everyone was released.

Black Angelo

Joe, Ald. Fioretti want to turn McCormick Place East into a casino lol. This Fioretti is also running for mayor. The McCormick Place the same place Rudy Fratto had his bid rigging scheme. Here’s the article:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/cityhall/2733272,mccormick-place-casino-fioretti-092110.article

B&C

Black,

When you speak about Dote, Mazza, Cozzi, Donny Scalise. What mazza are you talking about? And are they still a threat now or connected?

Black Angelo

B&C…I’m talking about Frank Mazza in the “Dote-Mazza” enterprise(but their is also a Joe Mazza also) and I believe everyone involved in the Damico Enterprise is very much active till this day. The mob doesnt have a retirement plan.

Alot of these guys have alot of money and hidden investments, but gambling is something these guys will do intill the day they croak over. The Mazza-Dote Enterprise was just a spin-off of the Damico Enterprise as was the Abbinanti-Pesoli Enterprise.

I believe the D’amico Enterprise is still active till this day in Chicago and Miami. Everyone involved has been out of prison for years. You have cell phones now lol. Something that was not readily available in the 1970s,80s,90s.

Logic

What’s also interesting is the amount of bookies with blackberries. Go to Richards or a few places in Bridgeport on any major college gameday and see Italian guys on blackberries nonstop emailing bets. They get a new gmail/yahoo account each week, the winnings are communicated through code…and the Feds would have a terrible time trying to sort through all that forensic evidence. No more slips and phones that can be monitored…its 2010 these guys have really adapted.

Cobra Chi Dojo

Dear Joe,

After all of this going back and fourth about whether or not the outfit still exists, I think that we can all agree on one thing.

The ‘Chicago Outfit’ exists today but is more underground than ever and is smaller and weaker than it has been in a really long time.

It seems like the “mafia” here in Chicago was pretty strong up until as recently as the early 90′s, which is astonishing considering the fact that when I think of mafia, I think of Al Capone (1920′s and 30′s), but before I start to head down that tangent, I should probably stop myself and get to the point.

Joe, I would just like to know if the outfit was still strong when you hung out with them.

Also, where does the boss hang out at now that the Loon is closed down?

In your opinion, do you think the outfit will ever die off completely?

Joseph Fosco

Dear Cobra,
The Outfit is still strong today – perhaps not as strong as 10-years ago, but still strong.
Honestly, I have no idea where Johnny spends his evenings drinking these days. I will let you know when I become aware of the location.
No, I do not think the Outfit will die off completely because of the overwhelming numbers of wannabe’s.

Budda

Black,

When your talking about Frank mazza thats what i was assuming but i heard of a francis mazza that hung with Johnny in the old days but was sent away for an instance with Robert Siegel. Who to my knowlegdge from reading an article worked for fosco’s dad.
But from the article Francis should have been released a few years ago. Does he have any relations to Johnny now?

Mr. Jingledonkey

Curly Peluso LOL LOL!!!

Logic

Curly THAT MOTHER! Joe do you know this guy? Longtime bookmaker? Wonder why Calabrese thought he was so “treacherous.”
- Joseph Fosco
  
  Dear Logic,
  I have no personal knowledge of “Curly.” I will get back to you soon after checking with a source. Thank you.

Black Angelo

Ralph “Curly” also does good construction work, and “Curly” was treacherous because he would crack your head if you didn’t have his money. Plain and simple lol.

He was similar to this phone call made by “Jimmy I” years ago…click forward on the video to 6:52 the phone call last till 8:14 in the video….a Chicago classic, enjoy….(click below on the link)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82kHZwONXGU

The Don

Joe, was Willie Messino ‘made’ into the elmwood park crew? I believe he was made but I’m not sure. Was he the chauffer driver bodyguard for jack cerone

Joseph Fosco

Dear The Don,
Yes, Willie was a ‘made’ member of the Chicago Outfit, since 1949. Yes, he belonged to the Cerone crew, which meant that Elmwood Park would be considered their stomping grounds, as Cerone resided in Elmwood Park, Illinois. As far as what Willie did for Cerone, I would say he did anything Cerone wanted, which included driving him at times.

The Don

JOE, WERE JOE FERRIOLA AND SAM CARLISI PART OF THE CICERO CREW OR DID EACH ONE OF THEM HEAD THEIR OWN CREW? I BELIEVE FERRIOLA WAS THE BOSS OF THE CICERO CREW WITH ROCKY INFELICE AS HIS UNDERBOSS. I BELIEVE SAM CARLISI WAS THE BOSS OF THE MELROSE PARK CREW & MARCELLO WAS HIS UNDERBOSS. AM I CORRECT?

Joseph Fosco

Dear The Don,
I would agree with your estimation. I would add that Carlisi was the boss of the entire Outfit after Aiuppa went away.

Black Angelo

Their is no evidence Marco is not made. JF has a source that is insulating Marco from the outfit.

Even if it where true. Being made in the Outfit for Marco is as meaningless as shoveling snow off your driveway during a blizzard.

Marco belongs to the DiFronzo Outfit and is the one of two right hands for Johnny D. (the other being obviously Pete). FYI Marco is made with Johnny. Just as Capone belonged to Torrio.

So is Marco a high ranking member in the DiFronzo Outfit “Yes” and for the sake of arguement not in the Outfit. And yes Marco has a large following that Johnny has access to.

By the way I always wonder if Jack Cerone really did not like Marco. All of Jackie’s grandaughters (Esq kids) and daughter in law (Judy Cerone) are very close with Marco’s wife and 4 kids.

(Marco’s wife and Jack Esq wife are very good friends) The 2 families lived miles apart in South Barrington – Inverness area in the 1970s & 80s.

Joseph Fosco

Dear Black,
There is no evidence that anyone “is not made.” Black, you are a tool.
I have a number of sources close to Marco and/or his inner circles that have assured me that Marco is not ‘made’. I have known this for many years. Some of these sources do not like him and others love him. I believe Sarno’s crime faction recently offered to ‘make’ Marco as sort of a Timex watch sentiment at the end of a long employment. From what I know, Marco refused to accept and remains unmade today, which caused me to feel a bit of respect for him. You seem as if you like Marco. If you do, you are not serving him well by publically declaring that he is an official of a corrupt organization.
You are correct, Marco belongs to Johnny, and so did the now late Robert/Bob “Popcorn” Cacciatore (the intellectually challenged brother of the now late Lefty Cacciatore, who was a very good person – God rest his soul). In other words, just because someone belongs to Johnny does not mean that their made.
Initially, Marco was more of Lee’s guy then he was Johnny’s guy.
Old man Cerone did not care for Marco, however he tolerated him because of the money he brought in. Only a naive person would consider the relationships between the children and the wives as if that would prove something of great significance. Jackie Cerone (the lawyer) liked Marco a great deal (despite his fathers feelings), because they shared a common interest, which is drinking alcohol heavily. Marco did not mind Jackie so much as a pal (the lawyer), but has not gone out of his way to see him on a regular basis since his return from prison.
- Salvatore Viganò D’Amico–Elmwood Park (DiFronzo’s guy)
  
  Thanks for putting an end to the weird remarks of Blank Angelo -aka- the President of the Marco D’Amico Fanclub.
  
  I will continue to follow your blog.
- The Don
  
  Black Angelo, Marco was not made years ago because JACK WOULDN’T MAKE HIM. CASE CLOSED!!

Black Angelo

I’m a tool Joe F. read some of your articles and the hypocrisy you’ve shown in them or lack of research. Your allegedly friends with Michael Magnifichi. Wow ! That is interesting to say the least. I’m no more a Marco Damico guy (aka Fan Club) than you are in the Michael Magnifichi fan club or Conrad Black fan club.

The latter 2 fan clubs you have become a card carrying member of most Chicagoans find laughable, deplorable and hypocritical. Your problem is you think that I like Marco and that I’m mad you claim he is not a made guy. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Let me explain something to you. John DiFronzo has always operated differently than other capo’s. If your willing to believe Frank Calabrese and Nick Calabrese.. DiFronzo is borderline genius. DiFronzo was already in a position of power in the mid to late 1970s where he could have major influence on sponsoring people for made membership to the Outfit. I believe and others believe DiFronzo detested the Outfit going back to the 1970s and deliberately protected his guys by “NOT” sponsoring them for Made guy status.

John DiFronzo and or Marco Damico are no idiots (that’s why their both still alive). Once Frank Calabrese was doing time in Milan he understood it was a big mistake to become a made guy (and it had nothing to do with burning a holy card in ones hand).

You claim to have all these sources (which I believe) and that they know Marco. But JF you would be a fool if you was willing to believe the only reason Marco is not made because Jackie Cerone had a hard on for him. Johnny DiFronzo detested back then and still does being a made guy in the Outfit.

So he went out of his way to protect his guys (basically from being implicated in Murders) at all cost and get them in legitimate businesses. The Spilotro Murders is a perfect showing of how Johnny D protected his guys. Every person their was made (if your willing to believe Jimmy Marcello is made and I’ll get to that in a second).

That’s why if your willing to believe Marco in “Not” made it is not because of some hocus pocus Jackie Cerone shit. If Marco belongs to Johnny D There is simply no need to become a Made guy. DiFronzo is to my understanding of a elite faction of the Outfit and basically his own Crime Family within itself and Marco is his guy. But this was set in the works going all the way back to the 1970s.

I’ll give John DiFronzo a lot of credit on that front he protected his guys at sit-downs (unlike Joe Nick or Lapietra who would leave their guys out to dry). After some of the guys who got murdered in the 1970s (one being Tony Borsellino, who should of never been whacked).

I think DiFronzo felt it would be in Marco and his large crew to never become made. The Tony Borse incident only added to this. Its easier to protect a guy that way. Marco was a very wild and unpredictable guy from the late 1950s up through the 80s. His crew just as wild. DiFronzo protected him. Their very loyal to this man.

My source has a source tied with the Federal Gov’t in Northern Illinois and they will argue YOU that Marco is made and they claim to have evidence of this. I’m not saying I agree with it. But Marco does have a 50 year criminal history and is full Italian. But if your willing to believe Nick Calabrese testimony that Jimmy Marcello was made than everything is a charade.

Yes Jimmy Light belonged to Black Sam like Marco does Johnny D. But to believe Obrien overlooked Jimmy being half Irish is very very hard to believe.

I’m not trying to protect Jimmy but it does fly in the face of wisdom. What if Nick Calabrese said Marco was made. Would you believe him !

By the way I have noticed a pattern from you JF when somebody disagrees with you or argues with you.. You resort to name calling or become condescending .. You’ve been this way for a long time.

This is not smart and you of all people should no better. By the way I’m still waiting on this infamous Messino piece with the license plate caught on video etc etc.

Joseph Fosco

Dear Black,
Marco is not ‘made’. Get over it.
f@rt on a horsey b*ner

You’re making too big of a deal about the full-Italian thing.

John Gotti Jr. was not full-Italian (part Russian Jewish) and, regardless of how funny it was, he was the boss of the Gambinos. (Hell, I’ve even read that John Gotti Sr.’s mother was not Italian by blood but was raised by an Italian-American family, thus conferring an Italian surname upon her.) Cadillac Frank Salemme was half Irish and was boss of the Patriarca group.

The prerequisite seems to be an Italian last name, but there’s even an exception to that rule in John Stanfa, the Sicilian-born boss in Philly who made a few guys who were 0% Italian.

Black Angelo

I apologize my sources source is not with the Fed Gov’t but with the CCC (Chicago Crime Commission). I must say your very interesting JF because Marco and or Pete DiFronzo talk to very few people or their is not to many people except for a select few that know about Marco being made and or not being made.

So who ever told you about Marco’s status or is talking to you is via a 3rd party (which would lack credabilty). By the way I don’t care if 15 people told you Marco was not made. That does not make it fact. If anything he could of put it out on the streets that he was to be insulated at all cost dating back to his indictment in 1994.. Because he knew the G had informants that was willing to testify against him.

The Feds had ready 7 informants that could back this notion (that Marco is made). All it took was 1 informant to say Jimmy Marcello was a made guy and it instantly became Gospel. And also to say he was present at the Spilotro Murders. But I will not be a hyprocite because I don’t care if 7 guys say Marco is made and are willing to testify against him.. That also does not make it fact.

Although one of the informants was best friends with Tony Spilotro and claims he was made with Marco and Centracchio in 1969. I have honestly no idea. But the CCC or the G seem to care less about some Jackie Cerone hating Marco therefore Marco is not made. That’s that not going to cut it at all to change their minds about Marco “not” being made.

Hell if they (your sources, inner circle cronies) could get away with it they’d probably try to tell you Johnny DiFronzo was not made. If your claiming someone from his “inner circle” told you.. Marco could quickly figure something like that out…if it where true.. That is all I’m saying.

On to Pete.. You claim Pete DiFronzo is concerned about ANP. Well either you heard this from a 3rd party or somebody told somebody.. Because I imagine if Pete did say something to somebody about this site and then you claimed it on here. Pete could quickly figure out who is your source. I mean I guess it just doesn’t make any sense. Maybe you should explain this.

Well I’m not going to argue about this anymore. The G and the CCC says Marco is made and they claim they can prove it. And you say Marco is not made. Hell maybe your insulating him, because I imagine he is loving this (or what you have to say about him).

By the way JF are you also masquerading as “The Don” because dis guy agrees with everything you say. He’s a yes man or he is drinking your Kool Aid at a large amount… and it seems like your answering your own questions. In order to tell short stories. I apologize if I’m wrong about this but it seems strange that’s all.

Joseph Fosco

Dear Black,

In my opinion, the Chicago Crime Commission is a sham charity that has done nothing but publish inaccurate information for tax-free charitable dollars. It has nearly gone bankrupt in recent years, for good reason. Their information on the Outfit is about as useless as the information in Romer’s stupid books, which were a fraud.

Regarding Marco, what sensible boss would make a man that is too drunk to drive home at night a ‘made’ guy? LOL

Guys like Marco are not ‘made’ simply because of their moneymaking abilities. If so, we could argue that Johnny obviously ‘made’ his investment counselor at the local bank.

In addition, being ‘made’ is not as important as some think it is. It was actually invented so bosses would not have to pay their guys money or extra money for various chores. The oldest trick in the book, a prestigious title instead of a raise in salary.

Black, do you think Peter DiFronzo appreciates the information that I publish?

Sorry to disappoint you, no, I am not masquerading as The Don. However, I take that as a compliment because he happens to know what he is talking about.

Marco is not ‘made’, do not forget it.

Black, here is your best quote, “I have honestly no idea.”
The Don

Black Angelo, Joe Fosco is not The Don. I’m The Don. I happen to know a lot about how the Outfit was generally structured from the 1960′s through the family secrets trial. I know the most about the Elmwood Park faction. that’s about it. I’ve had to rely of Joe Fosco to fill in some missing details. I can honestly tell you everything Joe Fosco has said about Marco (good & bad) is the same things I heard years ago. Jack Cerone had a lot of power during the 1970′s through 1986. He was what they call the number 2 Boss of the entire Outfit. He also was generally not a nice man and was not well liked. Because of that position, he held certain people down like Willie Messino etc. By the way, Willie lived right across the street and down about 6 houses from Jack in Elmwood Park on 77th ave. One thing to remember, there were some other powerful people in the Outfit who were not made but operated in a similar fashion like a made guy. Gus Alex was not made because he was Greek. However, he and his brother were valuable guys. Ralph Pierce was not made because he was Jewish. None the less, He was an important Outfit guy. I would put Marco in the same catagory. I don’t think the Marco situation should be discussed anymore. let’s just say that I respectfully disagree with you.
- Joseph Fosco
  
  Dear The Don,
  I would not compare the income of Marco to the vast political power of the Alex brothers. If Marco had died, his players would have found a new Outfit bookie. The Alex brothers had contacts that died with them.
  - The Don
    
    Joe, your’re correct. Marco was not equal to the Alex brothers because of their political connections. I was simply trying to tell Black Angelo that there were certainly other important Outfit guys in the past who were not made for different reasons. The guys that have the strong political connections made or not made are very valuable people to the Outfit.

Black Angelo

I can admit I have no idea. Because the Outfit is so secretive. Case in point Nick Calabrese who is allegedly a Made Guy in the Outfit had no idea who Anthony Zizzo’s father was until 17 years later when his cellmate Jimmy Marcello told him who that was the night Nick D’Andrea got murdered.

Nick did not know who the 2 older guys was that was waiting on Black Sam, The hatch, Nick and Jimmy Light. Until decades later. Jimmy told him that was LT’s father.

I happen to know alot about Marco D, but really have no insight if he is made are not. One guy close to him says he is. But I honestly have no idea, nor is it my business.

And yes Marco was a drunk, he was wild, some say a liabilty. So how come he wasnt clipped like the other hundreds in the 1970s !

Because he was a good earner or was somebody protecting him ?? If the man is who you says he is the Outfit could care less about his earning capability he would of been a goner and you know that.

But again “I honestly have no idea” about some things. But then again Made guys have no idea about alot of things themselves. And that is just the way some of these upper echelon guys want it !

White Angelo

Dear Joe,

Why do you suppose this whole issue of Marco D’Amico’s “made” status is causing serious emotional difficulties with Black Angelo? It’s almost as if his belief in a rational universe will go right out the window if D’Amico isn’t made.

Probably less than 1% of Chicagoland’s population even knows who Marco D’Amico is, and maybe less than 1% of that <1% are even remotely interested in his activities. (Keep in mind that I’m being extremely charitable with these figures.)

Now let’s get down to it:

In Black Angelo we have a person who “lives and dies” by the current underworld stature of Marco D’Amico (LOL), thus representing <1% of <1% of <1% of Chicagoland’s population, which puts him in an impossibly obscure group [1% of 0.0001 = 1.0 × 10 -6 (Be advised that the “-6” is supposed to be in subscript, as it represents a negative exponent)].

Perhaps you should do a public service announcement about Black Angelo soon.

Joseph Fosco

LOL!!!

Black Angelo

I actually agree with White Angelo (except that im emotionally disturbed about Marco) in that 1% knows who Marco is. But I would also say about 1 to 3% even know who Joe Fosco is and if that number is higher. The higher percentage of people will know about a animal named Marco.

By the way “The Don” according to the Government when Bobby Abbinante was indicted in 1994 he left 3 quarters of a million dollars on the street. But I imagine Tony Dote and Francis Mazza used that same money for their ongoing enterprise and that is just one guy (Abbinante).

So you could imagine how much money was on the street and how many agents/players each individual had.

Joseph Fosco

Dear Black,
Your imagination is boring.

Black Angelo

Also JF .. “Carl Dote” was partnered with “Guy D’amico” and the Cassano’s (Angelo, Dom, Vito, and Gino) one of them runs a pawn shop, one has a auto body shop out west I believe. These guys all under Tony Dote up through 2000/01.

Jf what do you know of Angelo Cassano besides the fact he likes to drink and drive. I heard he has stake/interest in the Bella Notte restaurant chain.

Also what do you know of Nino Cisternino ?

Joseph Fosco

Dear Black,

Carl Dote owed someone I know well a lot of money. And when he died, Carl refused to repay the family.

I know both Angelo and Nino. Angelo is totally out of the restaurant chain you mentioned and has been for years. I met him thru Willie and Michael. I have not seen him in 10-years. I have no idea what he is doing, except that he has another restaurant somewhere near Westchester.

Nino is a nice guy. I know him and his wonderful family. As far as I know, Nino is retired from the street rackets and has been retired for many years.
- Logic
  
  Bella Notte is run by Bobby Bellavia’s daughters right?
  
  Also Joe–was Nino, who I think is a Heights guy, made?
  - Joseph Fosco
    
    Dear Logic,
    I do not think Nino was ‘made’, but do not quote me on it.

Gaylord Tanookisuit

Mr. Fosco,

What do you make of the D’Amico theme on here? Annoying, isn’t it? Strange, too. It’s been going on since summer time.

At least with the Gio stuff there was an element of humor—however preposterous. Isn’t there some kind of plugin available that would deal swiftly and silently with these updates from Marco D’Amico Fan Club of America? It’s a shame to see such an unprincipled mind running amok in the threads.

Do you think D’Amico is aware of this? I can’t imagine he’d be very pleased.

Joseph Fosco

Dear Gaylord,
Marco is too drunk to keep up with this stuff. lol

Black Angelo

Dear Gaylord or whoever you really are move on if you dont like the “Damico theme” move on.. dont read my post I could care lest. There has been a Messino Theme, Nick Gio Theme, Dr Strangelove Theme, Accardo Theme, DiFronzo Theme, Cerone Theme.. “My daddy knew his daddy theme” or “My dad knew this guy theme” going on for I dont know how long on this blog and nobody says anything.. a lil hyprocrytical I would say.

But at least Marco is still an active player on the street (along with all the DiFronzo’s and Willies kids/grandkids) but the others are dead or in prison and irrelevant I would say to the 2011 Outfit. However they have left some legacies.

Gaylord Tanookisuit

Dear Black Angelo,

I was being polite by calling it a “theme.” I could have referred to it as “spam” because it fits the definition: “to post an unwanted message (or messages) many times to a newsgroup or message board.”

The Gio material was totally unwanted but not completely devoid of value because it was funny in itself and was presented in such a way that it was embarrassing to the individual who was responsible for the posts, which added another layer of humor.

The Cerone, Accardo, Messino, etc., discussions were not “spam” or unwanted “themes” because everybody seemed to have the same level of interest regarding those topics. As far as I was able to tell, no one seemed to have constructed their entire world view around whether or not Cerone, Accardo, or Messino were “made” the way you have with Marco D’Amico. I don’t recall hearing of any suicides when Joe stated the John DiFronzo isn’t engaged in street rackets.

Do you understand?

Actually, in an ironic turn of events, as I type this very comment the D’Amico material has slowly emerged as being hilariously funny at your expense. Case in point: the above posted math equation. So, yes, it seems as if now it is of some value to me, to the extent that it provides entertainment. So, by all means, keep it up.

Joseph Fosco

LOL
Joey V

Dear Joe,
Please remove Gaylord’s (f@rt on a horseys b*ner) comments. He is a windbag!
- Joseph Fosco
  
  Dear Joey,
  I think your comment is good enough as far as addressing your concern.
  Thank you for your thoughts.
  JF
- Bob T
  
  I did NOT make that windbag comment (@ 27 January 2011 at 12:27 am)!

Black Angelo

Gaylord you should be a blogger you are a very good writer I’ll give you that. And bringing up Marco’s made status has its purpose and that’s all I’ll say about that.

On a side note I’ve only stated facts about Marco. The guy has a criminal history which exceeds Joe Fosco’s birth (JF is 45 y.o.) and the Gov’t thinks he is made and he had a social club in Elmwood Park (ironically he moved out their via the Survivor Club after Cerone went away in 1986).

No lightweight gets a crew and a social club in EP. Joe says he is not made and this I guess will be a good thing someday. Like I previously stated everything serves a purpose.

FYI, if you want to post an opinion on a public forum that gives you the option to comment on said opinion, expect people to argue against it.

If you want a forum to voice your opinion but don’t want anyone to respond to it, open a blog and …disable the comments section. Or Joe could make everybody pay for his blogs and his viewership would go way way down.

Joseph Fosco

Dear Black,
If I charged, there would be no comments whatsoever, lol.

Black Angelo

LOL I agree with that JF, but if people agreed to pay and still wanted to sound off by all means take their money JF lol.

Joseph Fosco

Dear Black,
The only guy that would pay to sound off on me, granted he would not pay more than $10.00, would be Rudy Fratto. However, he is in prison now. The day of his sentencing, as you may recall, I covered the hearing that day, Rudy met with Michael Magnafichi and begged him to call me to take my article down that I wrote regarding his sentencing hearing. Apparently, his threat earlier that day – to murder me – was a bad idea, so he thought that he could get Michael to persuade me to remove the article. I respectfully told Michael that I could not help him on the matter.
- The Don
  
  Joe, You’d probably have to lower the price now to $2.00 for Fratto.
  - Joseph Fosco
    
    Dear The Don,
    Worse, Rudy would need a credit line. LOL
    - The Don
      
      Joe, I heard in the past, and it could have just been a stupid rumor, that Louie The Mooch and his wife were real party people and very open minded about the door swinging both ways. In fact it was told specifically to me that Mooch had a certain fondness for Johnny Mathis when he would come to Chicago and that Mathis had actually given Mooch a gold watch as a gift. Some of the other guys would even tease Mooch about it in a harmless way. Did you ever hear of any of these stories or was it just some exaggerated joke because Johnny Mathis happened to be fond of Mooch and that was it?
    - Joseph Fosco
      
      Dear The Don,
      I have never heard these stories. If my friend Buddy Ciotti were alive and someone asked him if these stories are true about the Mooch, he would punch whoever asked him so hard in the face that it would probably put the person in a coma.
    - The Don
      
      Joe, did you take offense to my question?
    - Joseph Fosco
      
      Dear The Don,
      Yes, but you did not offend me. Do you take my meaning?
    - The Don
      
      Joe, Would Buddy Ciotti punch you in the face for STATING LIKE IT WAS A FACT on the August 18 thread under AUIPPA ORDERS etc. that it was known that ” Joe Gags was open minded with his sexual orientation?” Go back and review what YOU STATED AS A FACT and look at the questions you were asked about it afterwards and your subsequent answers. I never heard of such a thing. In fact Joe Gags had a very beautiful Puerto Rican mistress for years. That’s all I ever heard. You didn’t offend me, but do get my meaning?
    - Joseph Fosco
      
      Dear The Don,
      I can tell you that Buddy did not punch me in the face when I told him that Joe Gags was open minded with his sexual orientation. And, yes, I get your meaning. If you were unaware of Joe’s sexual orientation, you were simply an outsider. Joe was not shy about his identity.
    - The Don
      
      Joe, Maybe Mooch & his wife WERE SHY about their open mindedness. Also, all you had to do was answer the question like a gentleman and say you never heard of anything of that nature. You didn’t have to add the Buddy Ciotti remark.
    - Joseph Fosco
      
      Dear The Don,
      I am sorry. It was not my intention to offend you.

Teets

Dear Joe,

The Don offended me with his comments. Please issue a first and last warning.

Joseph Fosco

Dear Teets,
I will keep my eye on it. Thank you.
The Don

Teets, how did I offend you with comments? What are you talking about?
- The Don
  
  Teets, I withdraw my question. I went back and saw about 5 or 6 other people complaining about you. You are basically a very JEALOUS person who likes to make false accusations against people who happen to know a hell of a lot more about the Outfit than you’ll ever know in your lifetime. If Joe Fosco & I have a disagreement about something it’s none of your business. It’s strictly between two gentlemen who have a lot of respect for each other. That’s something you probably wouldn’t understand.
  - Teets
    
    (Joe,
    
    It’s me Teets. Please disregard these comments, as they are directed at The Don.) Hey Don, just for the record, no one else in the threads has complained about me. However, I have reported others to Joe for offensive material. You are just jealous of me for different reasons, but I am not jealous of you at all. By the way, I know 100% more about the Outfit than you and Black Angelo put together, so don’t try to call me out in the threads. Please, let’s not make a scene in the threads.
    - The Don
      
      Okay Teets, whatever you say. all those other people who complained about you are imaginery and you are not jealous.

Logic

Joe-

What year was Louie The Mooch made about? 1970s? Also, any good stories or anecdotes about Eboli? Would he go to New York often to see his father?

Joseph Fosco

Dear Logic,

I have no idea when the Mooch was ‘made’. I know Joey Aiuppa loved him like the son that he never had. I do not have any stories in mind now. And, I have no clue as to his travels to New York. Thank you.
- Logic
  
  Thanks Joe…his obit in the Tribune is interesting: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1987-09-24/news/8703120285_1_chicago-mob-chicago-crime-commission-boss
  
  Would love to get some insight on what happened after his father’s murder and whether Accardo reached out to Carlo Gambino to ensure Mooch wasn’t next.
  - Joseph Fosco
    
    Dear Logic,
    Aiuppa was truly Eboli’s boss. All I have ever heard about the death of Tommy Ran (Tommy Eboli) is that is should have not happened.
    - The Don
      
      Joe, I believe Centraccio got made after Mooch Eboli died and he took over running the Poker machine franchise. He had soldiers working under him as collectors/street muscle. I believe Centraccio was direct with the Top Boss Carlisi. One of Centraccio’s soldiers was a guy named Rocky. I can’t remeber his last name. Anyway, I used to see Little Rocky around Melrose Park. My uncle knows him and likes him. Rocky used to hang out around Danny’s & Abruzzo’s.
    - Joseph Fosco
      
      Dear The Don,
      I never understood why Centraccio was indicted with the poker machine bosses and made to look as if he were their boss. Centraccio was collecting protection money from the dirty bookstores in the Stone Park area, and other areas. In my opinion, the government got it wrong as usual and decided that Tony was the boss of the entire group of rackets in the area that he was collecting protection money.
      The only Rocky that I knew in that area was Circelli. He worked for Buddy Ciotti, Joey DeVita and Carmie Bastone.
    - The Don
      
      Thanks Joe, as usual you’re right on the money. the guy’s name was Rocky Circelli. Thar’s it! I remember going into Melrose Park with my Uncle & he introduced me to him. My uncle referred to him as ‘Little Rocky’ When I asked him about Circelli. It was never explained to me clearly about the Poker machine situation in that particular territory. I gathered from general conversation in the past, that Mooch Eboli was a strong made guy who belonged directly to the Top Boss in the Outfit, Auippa. I heard that on more than one occasion. I was under the impression that Centraccio was a soldier under Mooch years ago and then got made when Mooch died. However, it’s possible that after Centraccio got made he then ran another franchise which involved the dirty book stores and the poker machine franchise was run by Carmine Bastone. The government made Centraccio bigger than he was in the Outfit. Even wired transcripts of Frank Calabrese had him saying the same thing about Centraccio. But, like we’ve both said before, the government calls every guy in Chicago who they strongly believe is ‘made’ a Boss. In reality, the made guys are really more like franchise supervisors who have soldiers working for them. The news media is the worst and the most uninformed. Acording to them, everybody in Chicago is a Mob Boss!

Merlin Tenderpony

Joe,

What can you tell us about Paul Ricca Jr? Are you friends with him? I imagine he’d be a little older than you if you’re 40-ish. How did he get the nickname “the Android”? I heard another user refer to him as, Paul “the Android” Ricca, Jr.

Joseph Fosco

Dear Merlin,
I hardly know Paul, although he would verify that my father and Uncle Romie were very close to his father. In addition, Paul Jr knew my Uncle Romie very well too. These days, our communications on various matters are mainly through a very close mutual friend. I have no idea why he has the nickname that you mentioned.
- The Don
  
  Joe, to whom did the Bastone brothers belong? I always heard they were strong made guys. Were they partners with each other like Cortina & Angelini or Frank & Nick Calabrese?
  - Joseph Fosco
    
    Dear The Don,
    I believe that Sal was more powerful than Carmie. However, they pretty much worked as partners. However, Carmie quickly soaked up all their power once Sal died in the late 1990s. Joey Aiuppa was the man behind the two brothers. Of course, they worked with all the different bosses over the past 20-years. Johnny DiFronzo was likely to be their main man after the death of Aiuppa and his protégé Carlisie. Another Bastone brother that had great power was Angelo, who worked for the Illinois State Police. Angelo was very tightly connected with Jake Gottlieb (a powerful Teamster Boss that had major influence in the Outfit rackets in Las Vegas click here for more on Jake: http://onlinenevada.org/central_states,_southeast,_southwest_areas_pension_fund). And of course, Angelo’s son Bobby is one of the most powerful judges/officials (though now retired from the bench) in Cook County. Today Bobby works as an administrator for Cook County Chief Judge Timothy Evans. According to a source, Bobby is not impressed or persuaded by his families connections to the Outfit and he is his own man.

Sharkhunter

It’s hard to believe “Gags” hit both sides of the fence. I knew him fairly well (did him a favor and he reciprocated which changed my life around) We used to have coffee on Chgo Ave and Lawndale. Harry’s coffee shop. (across from a vacant building with 100 phone lines) Often wonder what became of Harry. Never, ever had a clue about Joe but then we never discussed guys/gals except for the hot little waitress that worked there.

Reading this thread Joe, brought back a lot of memories from the early 60′s. I hope it keeps going…

Joseph Fosco

Dear Shark,
Homosexuality and bisexuality has been around forever. It does not discriminate. Hitler is rumored to have been homosexual, some say asexual. Psychopaths such as Gacy and Dahmer were both homosexual. Many people that knew Gags were unaware of his complete sexual identity, however a few did know about it. My examples have been made to show that tough and dangerous people could be homosexual or bisexual.
Apparently, you are heterosexual, which is why you never experienced Joe’s other side. Homosexual and bisexual people usually do not open themselves sexually to others that are not like them – it would not be polite.
I do not fault a person for their natural sexual desire, unless it pertains to criminal activity. Joe Gags was a respected man in the Outfit. His friends regarded him as a great guy. None of that changes as we learn more about his personal life.
I am happy that this comment thread helps you reminisce. Please keep reading it.
I will look into what happened to Harry for you.
- The Don
  
  Shark, my uncle worked under Joe Gags and loved & respected him very much. I too was surprised to hear that Joe Gags was bisexual. My uncle probably knew but never in all the years and great stories that he told about him ever mention it. However, I accept Joe Fosco’s word on it and it doesn’t change the fact that he really cared about a lot of people and was very well respected. The one quote my Uncle used to repeat many times to me was ” there would have been no Jack Cerone had there been no Joe Gags “.
  - Joseph Fosco
    
    Dear The Don,
    As you know, some very tough men respected Joe Gags, even those who knew about his sexual orientation. Personally, I do not judge a person by what they do in their bedroom, especially if it does not include abuse of any kind. Joe was not out of the closet about it, however, some of the fellows close to him knew about it. No one ever judged him for it, and most people that knew about it never said anything.
    - The Don
      
      I agree.
    - The Don
      
      Joe, did Rocky Infelice ever become one of the Top Two Bosses in the Outfit for a short while? If he did, during what year or years? Also, if true, then did Solly D. become a Capo for a short period of time of the Cicero group? I know for a fact that Rock’s mentor, Joe Ferriola, was the Capo of the Cicero group for a long time but was never one of the Top Two Bosses.
    - Joseph Fosco
      
      Dear The Don,
      Yes. Rocky reached heights that his mentor (Joe) did not. Rocky became the boss around the time of Ferriola’s death, which lasted until Rocky was imprisoned. I declare that Rocky was the dumbest boss the Outfit ever had. One example of Rocky’s shortcomings would pertain to his involvement with my fathers union local (which occurred after my father’s death). One day Rocky decided to call a man that once worked for my father via the Teamsters and who was married to Joe Ferriola’s daughter Darlene. While on the phone, Rocky told the young man that he was unhappy about a particular player (someone that owed gambling debts) and that he would break the guys legs if he did not pay his gambling debts. Well, shortly after the phone call it was discovered that law enforcement had intercepted the call. Therefore, the International (Teamsters) confronted the union official that took Rocky’s phone call and forced him to retire immediately. In other words, Rocky’s phone call caused the union official to resign. If my father were alive, it would have never happened. My dad had a zero tolerance policy. I mean that my dad would not employ anyone that was involved in the rackets. If a business agent that was employed by my father dabbled in bookmaking, my father would issue an ultimatum requiring the bookmaker to immediately decide if he wanted to be a business agent or a bookmaker.
      The subject of Rocky becoming the boss reminds me of how it occurred. Old man Cerone, who was away in prison at the time, influenced the decision (coupled with the fact that DiFronzo loved having a buffoon take attention away from him). Jack was old man Cap’s apprentice in the beginning. Well, Rocky had married old man Cap’s daughter Annie. In addition, Annie was one of Jack’s sex partners for many years, even during her marriage to Rocky. Annie forced Jack to elevate her husband in the Outfit so he could make some reasonable money (this reminds me that Rudy Fratto was ‘made’ because of his mothers repeated requests). Rocky was the dumbest boss that ever existed. In fact, he would get drunk in bars while bragging about half-truths. A few times Rocky talked to undercover FBI agents in bars while he was drunk and said things in a braggadocios way to impress the undercover agents (not knowing they were agents) and stated things that were not even correct, but nonetheless incriminating.
      Yes. Ferriola was a Capo but never the boss of the Outfit, despite popular belief.

Merlin Tenderpony

Joe,

Do you know anything about Mike Castaldo or the Petitt/Petite brothers who were based out of Elmwood Park? How about Mike Gurgone? Thanks.

Joseph Fosco

Dear Merlin,
I know that Willie Messino thought the world of Mike Castaldo. I knew him through Willie and casually know one of his sons. Willie explained to me that Johnny DiFronzo turned on Mike for no good reason a number of years ago, and Willie defended Mike, assuring Johnny that Mike was not deserving of any mistreatment by Johnny. My father was very close with Joe Petite. And I have a number of close friends that know his brother very Larry well. Sorry, I do not have much to say on Gurgone. How old of a person is Gurgone? Does he have (or had) a father or brother named Rocky?
- The Don
  
  Joe, that was a very interesting synopsis of Rocky. Did any of the other men know about Jack & Annie? How much respect could Rocky have gotten? Cerone was an asshole sleeping with Rocky’s wife. Do you think Rocky ever suspected it?
  - Joseph Fosco
    
    Dear The Don,
    Jack’s inner circle knew that he was sleeping with Annie. I think they were lovers since Annie was a kid. I do not believe Rocky suspected it. And if he did, he could not do much about it. Jack’s crew referred to Rocky as the “Huck.” I do not know why. And I know that Jack and his crew did not take Rocky seriously.
- Meathead Bunker
  
  Dear Joe,
  Is Mike Castaldo related to John (who owned a couple of beauty shops in river forest during the late 1980s)?
  - Joseph Fosco
    
    Dear Meathead,
    I do not know.
  - just a spectator
    
    @ Meathead. Mr C is not related to that John Castaldo from what I understand. However, Mr C does have a younger brother named John. Just not that one.
- Mr. Jingledonkey
  
  Mick Gurgone passed away recently, I think. He was related to the Spano family. (
  
  “the Gorilla” LOL LOL)
  - Joseph Fosco
    
    Dear Mr. Jing…,
    Now I know who you are talking about. I have no info on him.
  - Notme
    
    Mickey Gurgone is still alive and lives in Mt Greenwood

Horsey

Gary Gagliano had a mullet-style haircut in the 1980′s. Maybe this is why he was never “made.”

Joseph Fosco

Dear Horsey,
I am not so sure that Gary is not ‘made’.
- The Don
  
  Joe, if Gary Gagliano wasn’t made by the Outfit in the 1980′s, which is probably true, I would say from what I’ve heard, he is ‘made’ into the Elmwwod Park Mafia group. What his business responsibility is I don’t know, but I believe he directly with Johnny and is available for murder at his request. Correct me if I’m wrong.
  - Joseph Fosco
    
    Dear The Don,
    I agree.
    - Pagliaccio
      
      The is the same Gary Gagliano who makes a good beef sammich?

Mr. Jingledonkey

What’s the word on Virgil Cimino?

Did Armando “Mondo” Fosco have anything to do with the Parrillis?

What’s up with “Mondo” Jr?

Joseph Fosco

Dear Mr. Jingle…,
I have no word on Virg.
Parrillis? Or do you mean Parrillo? If you mean Parrillo, yes, Mondo Sr was involved (very discretely), thru Paul, with helping in the collection of debts for Parr Financing, which was primarily the job of the now late Mr. Sam Louis (Mr. Louis was also the owner of Meadowmoor Dairy in Oregon, Illinois, and was originally from New York). The Parrillos were good at making money and lending it out, but could not collect it. Paul intervened by bringing old man Sam Louis in to collect for Parr. Periodically, my father and Joe Shine assisted Sam with his collections, which was Paul’s idea; however, Paul arranged it through Teets.
Mondo Jr is a retired Teamsters Official living with his second wife in Northbrook, Illinois. He never had any more children after the unfortunate death of his only son, Armando III in 1983. He is a recluse. I would imagine that my literary work has helped him make the decision to remain a recluse in his retirement.

The Don

Joe, this is for all your readers. From the 1940′s through the begining of the 1990′s, being ‘made’ into the Chicago Outfit was not always the end all goal for every man. Many soldiers were very happy ‘belonging’ to a made guy, making good steady money working for him and not taking more risks than they already were taking. Not everybody wanted to be involved in murder or have the responsibility of running a franchise for the Outfit. In the same way, not every ‘made guy’ wanted to be a ‘Boss’. It really depended upon how each man felt about it and how ambitious he was and how much more risk he wanted to take. Being ‘made’ meant more resposibilty, more risk taking, and if you succeeded without going to prison or in some cases getting killed, then the reward was a lot of money, power, and the fact that you belonged to an ‘Elite’ group, unlike New York, where everybody and his brother got made. That’s how it was in the heyday of the Outfit! Now, let’s talk about today, 2011. With the Rico laws, advanced F.B.I. surveillance, DNA evidence, lack of general talent among the Italian American gangsters, you would have to be delusional/non realistic to want to be a ‘made’ guy or a ‘Boss’ in the South Side Mafia Group. There is no future in it. Guys like Sarno & Caruso are trying to hold onto something that doesn’t exist anymore. The odds of succeeding for even a relatively short time are heavily stacked against them. Joe, your thoughts.

Joseph Fosco

Dear The Don,
I agree with everything you have said, as usual, lol. However, I will add by emphasizing that despite the Outfit being on its way out, it does still exist to a degree and there are members currently involved that are capable of having murders committed. The Outfit is running on two of its eight cylinders, but it is still running for now. Furthermore, anyone that has the ambition to be a gangster is a moron.

Logic

Joe-

All this talk of Melrose Park, you obviously know the area well. Any theories or stories related to Sal Pullia and his dissapearance? He was said to have been buried under the Civic Center. His wife sure caused a ruckus after he passed. Was Bobby Pullia who was recently picked up with Jerry Scalise and Art Rachel a relative?

Joseph Fosco

Dear Logic,
I have no idea if Bobby was related to Sal.
- Logic
  
  Any thoughts yourself as to the eventual whereabouts of Sal? Did you ever associate with him?
  - Joseph Fosco
    
    Dear Logic,
    No and no.

Mr. Homestead Rd.

To Joe;

I have a few brief questions that I would like to ask. They are as follows:

1. Whatever happened to John “Mario” Rainone. Is he still a member of the outfit?

2. How far did the Chicago Outfit’s influence extend west of the Mississippi. Specifically, did Chicago control (or do they now still control) the people who run rackets in Northern California / Bay Area / San Jose?

Thank you for your time.

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