Tuesday, 29th July 2014

DiFronzo Authorized Hit On The Hatch

Posted on 02. Apr, 2011 by in Organized Crime

hatch1 236x300 DiFronzo Authorized Hit On The Hatch

Tony “The Hatch” Chiaramonti

The ownership of the now defunct CMS Trucking, Inc. of Melrose Park, Illinois, is the basis of an interesting story. The initials CMS stand for the last names of the three owners, Tony “The Hatch” Chiaramonti, Michael Magnafichi and John Spizzirri. Chiaramonti was a longtime Outfit enforcer, Magnafichi a longtime Outfit bookmaker and Spizzirri was one of Outfit juice man Mike Castaldo’s collectors. These three men opened CMS Trucking in 1999.

I am aware of how one of the partners acquired the necessary capital to cover his end of the bargain. Magnafichi borrowed a portion of his investment from a friend and the balance came from cash that he and William Daddono III amassed allegedly hustling well-to-do golfers. Magnafichi invested in excess of one quarter of a million dollars in CMS.

Spizzirri and Magnafichi quickly realized that being in a business partnership with The Hatch was a bad idea. The Hatch was a manic, which everyone knew, but his lunacy was interfering with the way the business was running. CMS experienced one problem after another and in no time at all Magnafichi realized that The Hatch had swindled him. The purported Daddono/Magnafichi funds were gone.

In the weeks after The Hatch’s victimization of his CMS partner, William Daddono’s uncle, Outfit member Rudy Fratto, became infuriated when he learned of the scheme. At the time, Fratto was on good paper with his boss, Outfit leader John DiFronzo. Fratto knew that The Hatch had similar schemes to swindle others throughout the city and decided that something had to be done to stop him forever.

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  • Mr. Jingledonkey

    The Hatch was on bad paper with everyone around the time of his shooting–the German, Jimmy and Mickey M, and Fratto. I always thought Jimmy ordered it.

    • Joseph Fosco

      Dear Mr…,
      Yes, The Hatch was on bad paper with numerous people. However, the straw that broke the camels back was the CMS Trucking matter.

  • Mr. Jingledonkey

    Anthony “Tony the Hatch” Chiaramonti was with Black Sam (that MOTHER!), Marcello, and Zizzo wasn’t he? The Hatch also had some kind of connection to Joseph “Shorty” Lamantia and the Chinatown crew. LOL LOL!

  • Mr. Jingledonkey

    Did Anthony “Tony the Hatch” Chiaramonti (LOL) have an allies at the time of his demise?

    • Joseph Fosco

      Not that I know. Maybe his girlfriend and my friend, Mary Rice.

      • The Don

        Joe, great article! and completely factual. This was one of the reasons my Uncle started telling me in 2001 that Elmwood Park didn’t want to eat with Cicero anymore. He wasn’t surprised at all when ‘Tony The Hatch’ got knocked down. For all of your readers, Magnafichi & Spizzirri are with the Elmwood Park crew. Chiaramonti was with the extended Cicero crew. Spizzirri & my uncle were both with Castaldo back in the early 1990′s. Joe, it’s possible and rumored, that Marcello got a piece of the swindle from Chiaramonti. Remember, Zizzo & Chiaramonti were both made guys direct with Carlisi & Marcello back in 1993. (Joe, you have a slight misspelling of Spizzirri’s name). Again, great article.

        • Joseph Fosco

          Thank you for the correction. I will fix it. I was wondering about it. You are sure, right?

          • The Don

            Yes.

          • Joseph Fosco

            Again, thank you.

          • The Don

            Joe, you filled in a missing piece that I was unaware of for 10 years! After hearing years ago about all the trouble at that trucking company, and hearing about the rumored swindle which you now have confirmed, I always thought Michael had gone to his Capo, Andriacchi, or directly to Johnny, for permission to have Chiaramonti knocked down. I didn’t realize it was Fratto. Very interesting. Like I said , Fratto is a Jag Off but he is a dangerous Jag Off.

          • Joseph Fosco

            Dear The Don,
            My hunch tells me that Michael would have wanted The Hatch hurt, but not killed. Dead people cannot repay debts. I believe that Fratto was in a position where he had to flex muscles to prove to the Daddonos what he is capable of doing. As I said, Bill III was very much exposed to the entire CMS Trucking deal. Uncle Rudy had been very well paid by that time by the Daddonos, allegedly for protection purposes. I cannot comment on Joey A. He may have played a role in sanctioning the hit, but I am not sure. Knocking down The Hatch required the authorization of the top dog (DiFrionzo) for numerous reasons. And Rudy got it done; and Rudy continued collecting his monthly stipend from Century Trade Show Services.

          • The Don

            Joe, if you can say at this time, do you know who assisted Fratto in the actual murder? Do you believe Bill Daddono III was involved with Uncle Rudy? Do you think Gary Gags was involved? After all, he is one of Johnny’s guys for this type of thing. Or, Rudy could have used one of his soldiers. Then that guy now has proven himself and is one of the next in line to get made and run his own franchise when the Boss approves it. I have a sneaky suspicion that lunatic nephew Bill assisted Uncle Rudy. Am I wrong?

          • Joseph Fosco

            Dear The Don,
            Well, we know that Robert Cooper was sentenced for his involvement in shooting The Hatch. It became public information a number of years ago that another fellow was involved with Cooper, Tony C. From what I understand right now, Fratto caused the murder assignment to be carried out by Tony C. One problem, Tony C seems to be keeping his mouth shut (according to court records), which means Fratto, et al, are protected (for now). It appears that That Tony C caused Cooper’s involvement, which is public information.

          • The Don

            Joe, The Feds also said that Chiaramonti was killed over a poker machine territory dispute. They never get it right! In addition, I can’t stand listening to Chuck Goudie. Anyway, it will be interesting to see if Tony Calabrese tells who else was involved.

          • Joseph Fosco

            Dear The Don,
            Right, Goudie and the G are usually on the wrong path, but they tell interesting stories. Apparently, Tony C is holding up strong.

  • Black Angelo

    According to the Gov’t Joe Spizzirri and his brother (Richard) belonged to Marco. This based on observations of the Spizziri’s dropping off envelopes to Marco at the EP social club. They went away on a extortion case back in 1992.The G connected them to Marco’s group (because of evidence).

    For the sake of argument they where heavies/ juice loan collectors for Joseph DiFronzo. And if anything they was freelance juice loan collectors and collected for all 3 men (Marco, Castaldo, and Joe D).

    As for Hatch Chiaramonti swindling the money from Magnifichi and Daddono. There is no doubt in my mind Hatch did this. Because The Hatch was a real gangster and would swindle cash in front of your face if he thought you was a “candy ass” and then would ask you what you was going to do about it.

    He probably laughed at the thought of these “pedigree gangsters” (Magnifichi and Daddono III) masquerading around like “real gangsters” when he got out of the can. Fratto was even scared of him. Black Sam and The Hatch would smack these guys around just for the sport of it if they so chose to.

    I hope Johnny okay’d this hit. And if true its no doubt in my mind Johnny made a bad mistake by okaying this. Sure the Hatch was manic, a lunatic.. But at the end of the day he was a real street guy, a real gangster. They don’t make them like him anymore.

    I will say this Jimmy Light allegedly was pissed off while in the can when he heard people where doing “things” (heavy stuff) on the street without permission. I’m not so sure the Hatch was supposed to be knocked down or if anybody went to Johnny and or him about this.

    The Hatch would of never swindled a real gangster like a Black Sam, Tony Borse, Frank C, Marco, Jimmy Light, or Johnny DiFronzo (just to name a few) and not because the Hatch was scared of aforementioned individuals. But because he respected them.

    Punk ass kids who was running around the city and trying to through their weight around because their daddies, brothers, uncles, or grandpa’s was this or that.. Well the Hatch would laugh at these fools and stick a foot in their ass.

    The Rudy Fratto’s, Mickey Marcellos, Jackie Cerone jrs, Pudgy’s and Mike Magnifichi are individuals that the Hatch probably had no respect for. I hate to say it but I would even through Tootsie in this category (in earlier years). Shit when Apes died.. The Hatch tried to take Bridgeport from Tootsie lol.

    And The Hatch was no hypocrite.. He would kick his own sons ass if he was going around using his name around town to gain respect. In The Hatch’s eyes respect was a right and not a privilege. You had to earn your right to be a Made Guy (real gangster). So yes the Hatch did take Magnifichi’s 225k and… so what.

    Again if true Johnny DiFronzo made a mistake by okaying that. He should of laughed at Rudy Fratto for coming to him and screaming like a lil girl that the Hatch took my money and my nephews money. DiFronzo should of got a womans breast and had him suck on it and told him to calm down while patting his feeble head.

    If you’ve ever seen the Soprano’s the characters most like The Hatch was Richie Aprile and or Feech LaManna. Real Gangsters. Not these phony’s running around town now masquerading as gangsters by using their pedigree.

    • Joseph Fosco

      Dear Black,
      I think you are making a mistake to consider the government as a reliable source. Spizzirri was with Castaldo, period. I do not care what he did with anyone, especially Marco. Again, Spizzirri was with Castaldo.
      You make sense talking about “candy ass” gangsters. However, in the case of Daddono/Fratto, “candy ass” allegedly kicked The Hatch’s “onion ass.”

      • The Don

        Black Angelo, The Spizzirri brothers names are John Spizzirri & Richard Spizzirri. John Spizzirri belonged to Mikey Castaldo along with Joe Lombardi and a few other soldiers. Back in the early 1990′s, the Spizzirri brothers were ‘loaned’ to Marco for a special assignment. This was done with the approval of Mikey Castaldo. When soldiers belong to a made guy, they cannot do anthing else on the street without the permission of their man. I think DiFronzo made the right call or Cicero would not have respected Elmwood Park. A Boss has to protect his men. Just because Chiaramonti may not have respected Magnafichi doesn’t mean that Magnafichi doesn’t respect himself. The Hatch was a very tough guy, there’s no question about it, but he was out of control with Marcello in the can. Also, speaking of the Sopranos, Ritchie Aprile got killed by a woman and Feech got sent back to prison for stupidity. So, in the final tally, I suppose you could say he who laughs last, laughs the best.

  • Black Angelo

    The Don I know who the Spirrizzi bros are. Their short lil guys with loud mouths. Their not Bobby Abbinanti types who can beat you to death with their fists and with a Glock.

    However I would not underestimate them (the Spirrizzi’s) if they had a Glock in their hand. But without that their all bark no bite.

    And I do not make the mistake thinking the Gov’t is a reliable source. As a matter of fact I would be a fool to take anyone as a reliable source. Anyone !!

    Case in point I have not read Frank Calabrese jr.’s new book, but it was brought to my attention that their is a reference in their that Marco is a made guy. Apparently Frank Sr. told him so. This was when Marco got transferred to Milan in 1999.

    Marco told Frank Sr. that Nick Calabrese was “openly” badmouthing Frank about his 2 sons incarceration at Pekin (which was true).

    But at that time Nick had not been cooperating but Frank Sr. already had his antenna up (just not with his own son in some aspects).

    As for Richie Aprile getting shot to death and Feech LaManna going back to prison on a ruse. Yes that is true, but that does not negate the fact that they was real gangsters !

    Real Men of Men you could trust. You did not see Feech or Richie sitting on a witness stand turning on his fellow men by becoming a stool pigeon.

    You could of gave The Hatch 1,000 years in prison and he would of did it without rolling. The Hatch was stuck in a different era.. so when he got out in 1998 he was perceived as being out of control.

    It was probably a culture shock to him to be dealing with the Black Sams, and Jimmy Lights of the world in the 1970s & 80s (Real Stand up guys) and then after his prison stay he has to report to some “candy ass” punk. The Hatch was sponsored by Black Sam to be a made guy for a reason !!!!

    And yes Frank Calabrese Sr. was a real gangster too (like the Richies, Feech’s and The Hatch). But I guess Frank Calabrese jr is laughing all the way to the bank huh ?

    So stool pigeons have the final laughs huh. So that is what the final tally is all about in life. Ridiculous.

    • The Don

      Black Angelo, I think you misunderstood me. Please let me clarify. I was merely stating that despite the fact that Chiaramnoti was a very tough guy, he still got killed. That’s all I was saying. I do not think it was very honorable for Chiaramonti to steal from another made guy because he thought he could get away with it. He needed to be disciplined. If every made guy in the Outfit started acting like wild cowboys and started swindling each other on every deal, there would have been no Outfit for 80 years. I agree with you that Frank Calabrese Senior & Chiaramonti WERE HONORABLE GUYS except for the swindling that Chiaramonti did against Magnafichi. For the record, if you’ve read any of the other threads concerning Frank Calabrese Jr., I despise him and think what he did to his father was terrible! No, stool pigeons do not have the final laugh! However, like it or not, I respect the fact that Chiaramonti got knocked down for what he did to Magnafichi.

      • The Don

        Black Angelo, concerning Marco. I always believed he was a very capable guy. He operated in the same way as a made guy because of the fact that he ran a franchise with soldiers working under him. Despite that fact, Jack Cerone, the Top Boss in the Outfit and Elmwood Park, did not want to make Marco for various reasons. My uncle thought the reasons were unfair and hypocritical. However, when Cerone died in 1996, it’s quite possible DiFronzo made Marco into the Elmwood Park Group. If there is a reference to it in Frank Junior, the manipulating drug addict’s book, then that could be what was meant. Is his book out yet? If it is, please tell me on what page in the book he has made that reference.

        • Black Angelo

          Yes I would take what Frank Calabrese jr. says with alot of salt. I have a friend who is very close to Junior. But on making something up as to who was a made guy .. I dont see why he would make something like that up.. like some other things.

          As for why Marco was not a made guy while The Lackey was around.. I have no idea. From what I hear it was for some of the same characteristics Hatch Chiaramonti displayed in his life (except Marco was a better earner).

          And The Hatch had a ace in the whole (Black Sam). (of course Marco’s ace in the whole is Johnny D).. Anyhow Black Sam did not care about The Hatch’s manic behavior or quote on quote “lunacy”. If anything The Hatch was “crazier” back then in the 1980s (he was 65 when he got knockdown in 2001 and was still a force to be reckoned with).

          Black Sam knew The Hatch was a man, capable and earned the right to become a Made guy. Black Sam wouldnt sponsor just any bum.

          Jackie Cerone on the other hand was a scumbag in my eyes and the polar opposite of a Black Sam. Sleeping with other guys wives and holding bazaar grudges.. That was Jackie.

          And Let me tell you back in the late 1950s Giancana was gonna knockdown Accardo, but Ricca veto’d it but gave the green light to scare Accardo “or make him a believer”.

          But you can bet your ass if Ricca said Accardo was to be knocked down.. Well Jackie Cerone wouldnt of been around to see his son (Jackie Esq) graduate from Holy Cross High School in 1958. Something to think about.

          As for Johnny DiFronzo taking care of Marco. Without question. Marco gets a healthy Aruba cut and still has a franchise.

          • The Don

            Black Angelo, I agree with you about Cerone. I also agree with you about Giancana. Now there was a real Gangster who allowed his men to make some real money. Giancana and his men from taylor St. were like the Beatles of Organized Crime. That will never be equaled again. You’re probably right that Marco was a better earner than Chiaramonti, however, the franchise he and Zizzo managed under Marcello was huge in volume and profits during the mid 1980′s to early 1990′s. Both Auippa & his successor, Carlisi, were better Bosses than Cerone. Cerone was lucky enough to hitch his wagon on to the oldest & longest lasting Boss in the history of the entire American Mafia, Accardo.

          • Joseph Fosco

            Right.

        • Joseph Fosco

          Dear The Don,
          If Johnny ‘made’ Marco when Jack died in ‘96, the warden was a super guy to allow the ceremony to take place in prison. I suppose someone could be ‘made’ by proxy (LOL). After all, marriages are officiated by proxy and are legal.
          I know the Cicero guys offered to make Marco a year or two ago. From what I understand, he turned it down.

          • The Don

            Joe, I didn’t mean literally in 1996. I meant maybe sometime after 1996. All I know is that Cerone was a hypocritical cheapskate and if he had been sleeping with my wife, I would have called him to have a meeting somewhere, hopefully just me and him, and when he was nice and relaxed I would have shot him in the head and then sat down and waited for the authorities to come and arrest me.

          • Joseph Fosco

            LOL

          • The Don

            Joe, any idea of the reason behind the Zizzo disapearance? The same story has been told by the Feds, who are almost always off base, that Zizzo was in a big disagreement with Sarno over poker machine territory. So, what they’re really saying is that they think it was an internal Cicero Crew problem. I doubt it. Do you think his disapearance was somehow connected to the Chiaramonti problem? After all, Zizzo & Chiaramonti were partners. The only strange thing is that his disappearance happened 4 or 5 years after Chiaramonti was knocked down.

          • Joseph Fosco

            Dear The Don,
            I have some thoughts on it. I would rather talk it over with one of my sources first. I should get back to you Monday.

          • Merlin Tenderpony

            Joe, please don’t forget to share any information you obtain about the Zizzo incident with readers. I found this current article about Chiaramonti to have been well worth reading. Any info about Zizzo would be just as fascinating.

  • Merlin Tenderpony

    I actually read Frank Calabrese Jr.’s book. As I recall there’s no mention whatsoever of Marco D’Amico in the book, and certainly no mention of him being “made.”

    In the beginning of the book there’s a short list of gangsters, soldiers, and associates separated by geographical location. But there’s nothing to indicate who is made and who is not.

    • The Don

      Merlin, When I read all the transcripts from the Family Secrets Trial, I got the impression that Junior didn’t know a hell of a lot about the history of the Outfit or about the general overall picture of how it was structured and generally operated. Is he any better in his book? Did you like his book? Was there anything of unusual interest you learned from his book? I believe Junior knew more than what he pretended to not know when he was recording his father so he could bait him into talking more about different things. What did he say about Kurt Calabrese? Are you sure there was no reference to Marco? Interesting.

      • Merlin Tenderpony

        The Don,

        Here is my impression of the book.

        When written by informant, mob exposés usually tend to be sort of lousy and self-aggrandizing. Occasionally, they can be good. Junior’s book falls somewhere in between. So, I liked it more than I disliked it. I will say that the book was surprisingly well-written (which goes a long way), but then again, it was co-authored by 3 professional writers.

        As for actual Outfit content, mob watchers who enjoy minutiae might find it interesting–particularly if they’re interested in the Chinatown crew. But, in general, there’s not a whole lot the book brings to the table in the way presenting a fresh, coherent structure of the Outfit. Sure, there’s mention of DiFronzo, Marcello, Andriacchi, and Aiuppa, but it only focuses on them as they pertain to the Calabreses.

        As for Frank Jr., I don’t believe that his choice to inform on his father was driven by morality. I believe that he had numerous ulterior motives for doing what he did.

        Junior did not strike me as being particularly bright, and I guess I’d agree with your statement that he didn’t know that much about Outfit history. But, he obviously knows a lot more about who the players are than he lets on in the book. Junior worked with the feds to permanently tie up his father, but he had no intention of talking down the entire Outfit. In fact, I’ve heard that he is scared because he inadvertently caused Marcello’s indictment, conviction, and incarceration. Junior had no beef with the Outfit itself, just his dad.

        I’m fairly certain there is no mention of Marco, and I’m positive there’s no mention of him being a made guy in the book. As I stated earlier, there is a list of Outfit guys, soldiers, and associates in the beginning of the book, and Marco may appear on the list somewhere. But the list doesn’t distinguish who is made from who is not. (Nick Ferriola is actually included in the list if that gives you an idea of what it’s like.)

        Kurt is portrayed as a bit player in the book—someone who didn’t care too much about the Outfit one way or another, and just wanted to be a young guy from a family with money who like going out and having fun. Apparently, Senior beat the daylights out of him too. His nickname was “Sad Sack.” My impression was that Frank Jr. loved him, but that there was some distance between the two. Kurt had some kind of balls on him, too, because after being forbade to see the Hook’s daughter (by both Senior and the Hook) he went ahead and married her behind their backs, anyway.

        The book does contain two interesting anecdotes about Angelo LaPietra and Monteleone’s attitudes toward Frank Sr. just prior to his incarceration.

        LaPietra was not comfortable with Frank Jr. and Kurt’s involvement in Senior’s business. Kurt married the Hook’s daughter, and, one time, the Hook (who disliked Kurt) supposedly told her that the boss should deal harshly with Senior for bringing his sons into the rackets. I believe this meant that he thought Senior should be knocked down.

        Also, when Senior and Nick Calabrese fell out with each other right before their incarceration, Nick went to Monteleone with a bunch of generalized complaints about Senior and his harsh treatment of his crew. (I’m not sure if Apes was some kind of boss at the time or not.) Apes gave Nick a pistol and told him that that was all he could suggest.

        Other interesting tidbits included things like: how Frank Sr. was a functional illiterate and was extremely embarrassed when others came to find this out. He was happy that his kids could read and write and attend college. You also get a sense of how Italian the household was. Senior’s first wife was Irish, but he had her learn a lot of traditional Italian recipes. Frank and Nick also spoke Italian to each other frequently.

        Oh, and apparently, DiFronzo was fond of Frank Sr., as was Andriacchi—at least in the 1980’s and early 90’s.

        A while ago, on another thread, Jingledonkey mentioned something about Turk Torello smoking pot, which I thought was a joke. There is brief mention in Junior’s book about Senior encountering his enemy, Petrocelli, on the street when Petrocelli was out trying to score some marijuana for Turk.

        So there’s my review. I would “suggest” it to someone who is interested in the Outfit without necessarily “recommending” it.

        • Merlin Tenderpony

          The Don,

          One thing that struck me as being interesting about Junior’s list is that south of Chinatwon, Chicago Heights and “Crown Heights” are presented as being 2 different crews.

          I don’t have the book in front of me, but I think Tocco was listed as top dog in the Heights (before his incarceration/death), and Tootsie Palermo was listed as Crown Heights with only 1 soldier.

          Also, in the book, Riis Park is distinguished from Galewood as a breeding ground for Outfit talent.

          • Dom

            Where is Crown Heights?

          • Merlin Tenderpony

            You know, I have no idea where Crown Heights is. As I was typing my response to The Don’s questions, I remembered that it was listed in the book as being separate from Chicago Heights.

            Again, it’s been a few weeks since I read the book, which I checked out from the library, and I don’t have it in front of me. But I believe that on list ‘Cicero’ swallows up a bunch of other territories includes a very lengthy list of guys.

          • Dom

            Merlin: Do you remember the person he had listed with Toots? I have an idea.

          • Merlin Tenderpony

            I can’t remember, Dom. If I have a chance I’ll try to take a peek when I go to Borders tonight.

          • The Don

            Merlin, Thank you very much for your review. I knew you would be thorough. As I suspected, the book centers around the franchise of Frank & Nick and there soldiers who were all part of the 26th St. Crew. Thank you for acknowledging that Junior had ulterior motives. Jimmy LaPietra died in 1993. After his death, the underboss, Johnny Apes, became the Capo of 26th St. which would have been before Frank, Nick & their soldiers went to prison. Concerning Chicago Heights, Tocco was the Capo & Dominic Palermo was his junior partner & underboss. They were all part of the same crew in the same way that years ago Joey DiVarco was the street boss of Rush street and the underboss to Solano of the North Side Crew. Junior is not smart enough to realize those minor points. As far as Frank Senior bringing his two sons into the picture, the Capo of each Crew generally approves or disapproves of the soldiers who work under the made guys that are his direct partners. Angelo LaPietra would have been that person. In my opinion, that’s why he didn’t want Kurt marrying his daughter. Angelo preferred her marrying someone not involved. From my experience, not all Outfit guys want their children involved in the Outfit or want their daughters involved in inter-marriage. The Sicilian Mafia is a little different, but that’s another story. I think the Calabrese family disaster hurt Frank Senior more than any one. He loved being an Outfit guy and he pictred himself as a Boss, his brother Nick as his partner & underboss and his sons belonging to him. Frank was definetly old school Mafia and probably didn’t realize what he was doing was actually destroying his family. Again, Thanks Merlin, you are a true gentleman.

  • Black Angelo

    Dear Merlin T, that 11 am posting was pretty damn impressive.. Good synopsis on the book.. I still haven’t read it yet.

    The Don, Okay here’s what was relayed to me from my source who is close to Frank Calabrese jr. Frank only testified against his father and did not want to testify or bring down any other “active” Outfit guys. In his book he protected “active” guys if he liked them by using other names for them.

    On page 203 of his book Frank jr. makes a reference to a JR a made guy who transferred from Pekin to Milan. This JR was a made guy and hung out with Frank sr. alot at Milan.

    According to my source that guy is Marco unequivocally. But Frank Jr. did not want to use his name in the book because he does not have a beef with Marco. As a matter of fact Frank Jr likes Marco a lot.

    At first my source thought it was Shorty Lamantia (because he was at Milan also) before finding out who was JR.. But Shorty did not transfer into Milan like Marco and Frank Sr. did not like Shorty to much. But not like he hated Butch Petrocelli.

    Frank Calabrese Jr. knew Marco since the late 1970s. Marco use to look out for him at Rush Street discos because he knew he was Frank Sr. kid. If Frank Jr. was about to get in a fight.. Marco and his crew would assist him or help him. Marco I’m told would also give Frank Jr. cash for certain things.

    So when Marco showed up at Milan decades later. He knew Marco and liked him. He knew that Marco was a major player in the Outfit but did the JR is Marco D’amico I’m told. Everything adds up.. I know Marco was at Milan from 1999 till 2005. Frank Sr. allegedly told Jr. that Marco was a Made Guy.

    I’m also told Marco told Frank Sr to not have Frank Jr messing around with “certain individuals” in Elmwood Park once released. Because Marco was getting word from back home that “certain individuals” was shady.

    And Frank Sr. also had grave concern about his son messing around with “certain” individuals out in Elmwood Park. Frank Jr. would later come back to Milan to visit his father and said “certain” individuals where talking too much in public under the influence of alcohol.

    Frank Sr. was ALWAYS looking out for his son and his best interest even after his son stole 800 grand from him and then his son double crosses him.. Unbelievable.

    • The Don

      Black Angelo, You’re right about Frank Senior caring about his son. I think the amount was $600,000. But, it doesn’t matter, the point is, what Junior did to his father was UNFORGIVABLE. Now, I have some questions for you because of your Marco expertise and it will save me time from researching it. I believe Marco went to prison in 1994. Do you agree? Along with Marco, several of his soldiers & bookmaking associates went to prison. Do you agree? Exactly, which prison did Marco go to in 1994? How long was he there? What prison did he transfer to after the first one? How long was he at the second prison? When did he finally get out of prison? Thanks Black.

      • Geek899273

        Hi Don, I believe Marco was indicted in November of 1994. He pled guilty in April or May of 1995. I remember he admited his role in Outfit activities but as part of his plea agreement he wouldn’t name anybody. He was sentenced to 12 years in jail and according to the Federal Inmate Locator he was released on July 21st 2005. I’m not sure of what prisons he was in. I want to say it was in Wisconsin for the initial part of his sentence and then he was transferred.

    • Merlin Tenderpony

      Black Angelo,

      Don’t forget that there were other LCN guys from New York and New England incarcerated with Calabreses. They took a liking to the Outfit guys. I think it’s possible that one of those guys could have been this “JR” that you’re focusing on. I guess the New York and New England guys all had big mouths in prison and would openly discuss past crimes. Frank Sr. was reportedly cordial with them but knew not to get involved with swapping stories with them.

  • Black Angelo

    The Don, Your correct Marco got indicted in the fall of 1994. And several of his crew members went to prison (even 2 Chicago cops).

    A Marco was at the Chicago MCC for about a year (they did not release him pending trial/or plea agreement).

    Then from the MCC he got transferred to FCI Greenville for about a year. From their to FCI Pekin (around 1996). Around 1999 he got shipped off to FCI Milan where he stayed up until his release in the Summer of 2005.

    If your wondering other Chicago Mob guys that was their during that time was Shorty Lamantia he paroled in 2001, Louis Marino got to Milan in 2002 or so and is still their (9 years he‘s been their), Jimmy Light, and I believe Fat Sarno paroled out of their in 1999 but I would have to double check with someone. .

    Jimmy Light came to Milan via Pekin in 2000/01 and paroled in late 2003. But Marco definitely came to Milan via Pekin in 1999 (he was their for 6 years). Frank Calabrese jr. paroled in 2000.

    Also all these guys and others where under major surveillance during their stay at Milan. Except Jimmy Lights and Frank Calabrese Sr. have been released to the public for obvious reasons.

    • The Don

      Black Angelo, assuming Frank Senior was not talking about Jimmy Marcello or Sarno, then it is very possible Marco was made before he went away. Let’s examine the facts. Cerone would not make Marco, but Cerone went to prison for good in 1986. DiFronzo became one of the Top Bosses in the Outfit in 1986. DiFronzo really didn’t care for Cerone too much at all. Marco ran his own franchise and was a very good earner. Marco is full Italian and a capable killer. After Cerone had been in prison for let’s say 5 or 6 years that would bring us up to 1991 or 1992. We know that in 1989, Marco was not made and was complaining about it. So, why wouldn’t Johnny, who didn’t have to really answer to Cerone anymore, go ahead and make Marco which is something he deserved anyway. Lesser men have been made than Marco. DiFronzo liked & trusted Marco so there would be no logical reason for Johnny not making Marco. Why wouldn’t he? Johnny certainly didn’t have Cerone to stop him over some bullshit reason like drinking too much. Sleeping with another made guy’s wife is a lot worse. Plus, Marco is not the only Outfit guy who drinks too much sometimes. In conclusion, I would say Marco is a made guy. It’s just a question of WHEN he was made. If there is some compelling evidence to show that Marco was not made by Johnny in the early 1990′s, then he certainly was made after 2005 when he got out of prison.

      • The Don

        Black Angelo, I also know Joe said that the Cicero Group recently offered to make Marco. However, that doesn’t prove that Marco was never made by Johnny. Elmwood Park & Cicero have not been close for at least 10 years. Cicero may not be aware of everything within Elmwood Park. Same thing with 26th Street. They seem to think Cerone Junior is more than what he is in reality. Also, certain stories from the past sometimes stay with a person even if things have changed. I’m sure other guys from other crews back in the 1980′s knew Marco wasn’t made because of Cerone. However, when there is a changing of the guard, sometimes things change either for the better or for the worse. Things certainly got better for Willie Messino after Jack was gone. Lee Magnafichi made sure of it. So, again in conclusion, I see no reason why Marco was not made in the early 1990′s or after he was released from prison in 2005. A lot more evidence points to that being true rather than untrue.

        • Joseph Fosco

          Marco is not ‘made’. I cannot indicate how I know this because it will get someone in trouble. Again, he is not ‘made’.

          • The Don

            Joe, I see no logic or reason why Johnny would not have made Marco after Cerone was gone. However, you obviously know something I don’t, so I accept your answer. There must be some unknown reason and if you were to tell me, I probably would say ” Oh, now I see why.” I don’t think Black Angelo will accept your answer, but I do. In the final tally, Marco will still be part of Elmwood Park and operate AS IF he were made. Did you ask your source about the Zizzo story?

          • Joseph Fosco

            Zizzo was hoarding a moneymaking operation that stemmed from his past dealings with the now late Hatch. He refused to relinquish it. I am not sure exactly what the scheme entailed. He was stubborn about letting go. Apparently, he hung on to whatever it was for roughly 5-years.

          • The Don

            Joe, I knew it had to be something that was financially tied to Chiaramonti. Who wanted him to relinquish, Cicero or Elmwood Park?

          • Joseph Fosco

            It would appear that Cicero did, at least on the surface. However, it seems that DiFronzo’s crew took part in allowing it.

  • Black Angelo

    If you’re a betting or Gambling man Marco is made. The Don you make very good pts. However JF has a good source also. I’m just wondering though how old that source is ? Because guys like DiFronzo or Andriacchi where Made for instance when Fat Sarno was in diapers.. If he was even born at all.

    I’m wondering when Fat Sarno was even made ? I have my ear to the street and have never heard of such a thing (Fat Sarno being made). For all practical purposes it had of been before 1993 (I imagine) and if that is the case he was young.

    But he is not the only guy I wonder about there is a litany of guys I wonder about.. I’m not going to name them all here. One in particular is Jimmy I. He went to the can in 1978 and did not get out till 1990. I’ll say this “Jimmy I” had to be rewarded for being a stand up guy.

    So if Johnny DiFronzo and Black Sam opened the books from 1990 till 1992. Johnny HAD to of squeezed Marco in their and maybe even a sleeper in Marco’s crew or even his brother Joseph.

    Then again I believe DiFronzo has his own “thing” and if that is the case Marco isn’t even a Capo he’s more like a consigliore and or vice versa to Peter DiFronzo’s underboss. Anyhow enough of the talk.

    Most people on here will say “TRUST ME” Fat Sarno is made or Jimmy I is made. I don’t want a “Trust me”.. tell me when and where and what date ! As for me I heard 2 different occasions when Marco was made once was a long time ago with Tony Spilotro (one of his first gambling partners)..

    Tony was sponsored by Joey L and Marco was sponsored directly by Obrien during this same ceremony. (Marco did not belong to Cerone at the time and DiFronzo was not a capo at the time). Then I heard recently (last year) Marco was made in 1992 out at a 5 million dollar home in Oak Brook that was secure in a basement. DiFronzo sponsoring him. This too is where Fat Sarno could have been made.

    But if your willing to believe Cicero offered Marco his button after his release then Fat Sarno was not made in 1992 w/ Marco. My source that is still alive told me about this. I can only assume Marco was their as a Capo and sponsoring a Tony Dote or Bobby A.

    However my source that died a couple years back (who JF knows of) told me of Marco being made a long long time ago being sponsored directly by Obrien. Marco was even living in Cicero at the time on 57th ave.. 1800 block.

    He belonged to Obrien at the time and would kick in big money for Obrien which made this greedy man very very happy. Marco was allowed to get away with so much because everybody knew Obrien loved Marco. Jackie C despised Marco because of his close relationship with Obrien.

    And I was told at the same time Obrien was moving his people into key spots around the city (like putting Angelo LaPietra in Chinatown)..

    Obrien allegedly gave Marco the Survivor Club on Taylor Street. Marco in fact was very friendly with all Taylor Street guys (like the Wild Bunch) and would let them use the Survivor Club whenever they wanted.

    I was also told Johnny DiFronzo likes Marco a lot because he’s known him all his life and that he admires his clever and deceptive attributes.

    Marco is a big big drinker this is true.. He likes to have a good time this is True.. But he is very slick all at the same time.

    For instance if he was to meet you in person you would not know his real name. Even if you said hey your “Marco Damico” he would lie in your face and say “I don’t even know who that is !”.

    He does not talk to people he does not know. If he was not Made with you he does not throw his status around like other gangsters “pedigree gangsters” you could call them.

    My dead source told me Marco would openly tell people he was not Made or not even bring the subject up at all (to insulate himself by himself).. but most guys in the Outfit always wondered how he ran a franchise and had so many social clubs on the arm.

    Tony Spilotro I’m told would brag about his status of being a Made guy. He even told his right hand man who was Made with him and where the ceremony took place. This right hand man Frank Cullotta would later become a stool pigeon. When Marco was indicted in 1994.. Marco wanted the Gov’t to prove he was a Made guy.

    Purportedly the G was ready to call Cullotta and 6 others to say that Marco was in fact Made and when and where and what year and with who.. JUST LIKE NICK CALABRESE DID WITH THE 1983 MAKING CEREMONY.

    Also in a mob book written by stool pigeon Robert Cooley.. Their was an incident in 1975 I believe where Cooley was in debt to a guy on the arm of Tony Spilotro. Tony came to Chicago to beat the shit out of Cooley and collect on said debt. Cooley purportedly told Spilotro at the 11th hour he belonged to Marco. This saved Cooley’s ass.

    Tony had high respect for a guy like Marco even in 1975 (there is a reason for this). By the way Cooley is a stool pigeon but he has no reason to lie about that story.. No ulterior motives. But unlike other guys in the Outfit in the dark about Marco. Tony actually knew Marco’s status !!

    Again the Don has made some solid pts and I do believe JF has a good source.. The only thing is I believe his source believes Marco is not Made because Marco has never used his Made status to gain a foothold in anything..(like Matassa or Fratto have allegedly done before).

    If Cicero asked Marco if he wanted to be Made.. I’m sure in a Ironic way Marco was ecstatic because a guy like Fat Sarno should be in the dark about Marco’s status.

    Again I ask when was Jimmy I or even Harry Aleman was made and or Fat Sarno ? Thank you for your time. By the way good stuff on the Zizzo thing.

    • The Don

      Black Angelo, I think I made the best & most logical arguement possible that Marco was made. The magic year I targeted was 1992. However, if Joe knows a dark secret about why Marco wasn’t made, then it’s hard to continue the discussion. It’s like the nuns in school telling me that what I think makes logical sense but I’m wrong because the Lord works in mysterious ways. How do you argue with that reply? Joe must know something he cannot reveal so I have to take his word on it. As a side note, Frank Cullotta was not made. He was, like you said, Tony’s top soldier. As you know, he became an informant and listening to his dialogue, he was upset that he was never made by Lombardo. He felt he should have been Tony’s full partner and resented the fact that he had murdered for the Outfit but never moved up. I know Spilotro’s son, Vincent, really well. So, Nick Calabrese is still the first PUBLIC made guy to ever become an informant. I think over the 80 years existence of the Outfit that’s a pretty good record. My uncle always told me getting made in Chicago was a much bigger deal than in New York where everybody gets made including the taxi cab driver who picks you up at the airport!

      • Joseph Fosco

        I think more guys were ‘made’ in the ’40s and ’50s then in any other decade. I would not be surprised if there are some old sleepers still out there that were ‘made’ in the ’40s, who have remained low-key to the point where the bosses today do not know who they are.

        • Merlin Tenderpony

          On those prison tapes, Frank Sr. told Junior that there’s maybe only a hundred made Outfit guys left. Junior laughed. This was around 1999 or 2000.

          Initially, I thought 100 made guys would be high for Chicago during any decade. But, yes, it doesn’t seem that unlikely if you count old-timers who were made in the 40′s and 50′s and are still alive today. Retirees, sleepers, whatever you want to call them. Al Tornabene is the only sleeper who has ever gotten any attention.

          Joe, do you know of any other sleepers?

    • Merlin Tenderpony

      No offense, but, again, why is Marco’s made status such a bone of contention? Isn’t it enough to just say that he is a very respected guy in certain circles in Chicagoland?

      I think Joe has already made it clear that half of the time, being made is meaningless. It seems to be a carrot the Outfit dangles in front of soldiers and associates. It’s also a way to make sure that the guys who are, in fact, made remain beholden to their capos.

      Someone else said that Johnny DiFronzo would sell his stripes if he could because it’s not really anything of value.

      Also, aside from Nick and Frank C’s accounts of the 1983 making ceremony, no one has any evidence (or evidence to the contrary) supporting who is or is not made. So saying that Marco is or isn’t, Sarno is or isn’t, or Jimmy Inendino is or isn’t, is not really a fruitful thread discussion.

      That said, I don’t think Harry Aleman was made, by the way. He was a highly placed associate.

      • Merlin Tenderpony

        This reminds me, Don, didn’t you say that Infelice was overheard on wiretaps talking about the induction rites of the Chicago Outfit? I looked on that 3-part Goodship Lollypop article but couldn’t find it.

        I’d like to read it if you can remember where it is, exactly. Thanks.

  • Hugh Jass

    In your opinion Joe, to what extent is the “outfit” active today? Bookmaking would be an area that remains the obvious, but what about the “gaming” (machine) business, prostitution, adult entertainment, union/political, drugs, and now in this day possibly electronic fraud/theft, etc.

    In your opinion, how much influence does the “outfit” have these days?

    • Joseph Fosco

      Dear Hu…,

      Today, the Outfit remains involved in sports gaming (which include the juice business), video poker and numerous business services provided to various entities controlled by corrupt officials, both in the private and public sector. Protection money and extortion is on a rapid decline today, however certainly still exists. I am a victim of these crimes (extortion).
      The Outfit maintains power with labor unions, politicians, court systems and law enforcement officials. The Outfit is less powerful these days; however, is powerful enough to carry on as an effective enterprise. Violence is still their tool for commanding respect. They have been around long enough to reap the benefits of having a dangerous reputation, which seems intimidating to most people. Therefore, violence is not often necessary.
      The Outfit invests its money in many different legitimate companies. The few that stand out are the ones that are in the grey area, such as gentlemen clubs, x-rated bookstores (these include a small degree of prostitution), etcetera.
      Smalltime Outfit associates, usually without the consent of the Outfit, most often commit schemes such as burglary, drugs, theft, fraud and robbery. Here is where the Outfit is actually guilty by association.
      Again, these days, the Outfit has enough influence to carry on as an effective enterprise. Think of it as Block Buster Video. It once had 9,000 stores and is down by two-thirds today.

  • Black Angelo

    Merlin, inasmuch you summed it up pretty well and essentially made my pt for me.. nobody can tell me about Jimmy I, Fat Sarno, Toots Caruso, or Pete DiFronzo when, where, and with who they where MADE.

    Everything we know about the “making ceremony” was via the Gov’t or stool pigeons filling in the blanks.

    Although Frank Sr. talked about it but did not say who he was Made with. A stool pigeon came in (Nick Calabrese) and filled in the blanks for the Gov’t.. take that for what its worth.

    Nick also filled in the Gov’t with the 1988 making ceremony with Poker DiForti, Hatch Chiaramonti, and Gerry Scarpelli.

    All i’m saying is the Gov’t had stool pigeons (like Nick C) ready to come in and testify that Marco Damico was a Made Guy in the same manner Nick C did in the F.S. Trial..

    But Marco’s thing didn’t get that far because he plead out (instead of going to trial) or alot of things would of came to light.

    Also Joe Fosco don’t forget about the Outfits influence abroad like Aruba (where they have essentially control of 4 casinos) and I’ve heard they have casinos/gaming in the Domenican Republic and Panama. But Aruba is a GOLD MINE !!

    • Merlin Tenderpony

      Black Angelo,

      You’re correct about the making of DiForti, Chiaramonti, and Scarpelli in 1988. Did you follow the trial pretty closely, too?

    • Joseph Fosco

      Dear Black,
      Thank you for the reminder. I was focusing on rackets in Chicago when I wrote my piece earlier. However, you are right in mentioning the rackets abroad. In addition to Aruba, there is Chile and Cost Rica (as well as a few other places in South America).

      • Merlin Tenderpony

        Joe,

        Do you remember when Lombardo was on the lam it being widely reported that the FBI suspected that he could’ve fled to the Carribean where he was said to have gambling interests?

        Do you know if it’s true that Lombardo has gambling interests there, and, if so, as recently as 2005?

        I was always under the impression that gambling rackets abroad were strictly DeVita and DiFronzo’s domain.

        • Joseph Fosco

          Dear Merlin,
          I would not be surprised if Johnny gave Joe a piece of his end on the gaming stuff abroad.

  • Black Angelo

    Yes Merlin T, I followed it closely enough to know that without Nick C and his hearsay testimony Jimmy Light walks. Oh and Lombardo had a good alabi. And that Nick C filled in alot of blanks (take that for what its worth !).

    Jimmy Light essentially did the same thing Marco Damico did.. Prove that i’m a Made Guy ! Jimmy Light made the arguement he was half Irish. Jimmy Light also wanted a severance from his case (did not get it).

    I recall in 1992 when Jimmy first went to prison he told the judge at sentencing “If my name wasnt Jimmy Marcello I would not be here” or something to that matter.

    A for Marco he plead guilty in 1995 when he found out what the Gov’t was prepared to prove he was Made and not only that but HIGH RANKING.

    Let me tell you something about Operation Gambat their was hundreds of hours of tapes that the general public has not heard (even Johnny DiFronzo was caught on tape acting like a Boss).

    But their is some incriminating evidence that Marco mentions his power and how he got it (Trust Me).

    And then on top of that the Gov’t had 7 to 8 Nick Calabrese type stool pigeons ready to come in and prove Marco was Made and quote on quote “fill in the blanks” for a jury in Marco’s trial.

    Marco backed off and went on to prison.. Smart Move ! Till this day I think the case was entrapment because Cooley was an attorney and Marco and or Johnny DiFronzo would of NOT been talking to him about criminal activities had he been an average citizen or even a Outfit associate.

    But remember Merlin, Nick Calabrese said Poker, The Hatch and Scarpelli was Made.. Must be Gospel huh.

    • Merlin Tenderpony

      Black Angelo,

      If you believe that all cooperating witnesses do is lie when they testify, then how is “7 to 8 Nick Calabrese type stool pigeons ready to come in and prove Marco was Made” compelling enough for you to believe that Marco is a made guy? By your reasoning, informants testifying to Marco’s membership in the Outfit would prove the opposite–that Marco isn’t made, right?

      And there’s never been a witness like Nick Calabrese before because he’s the 1st made guy to ever formally cooperate in the history of the Outfit. Obviously, if we believe what the government reports, there are plenty of “made” dry snitches. But Nick Calabrese is unique in that he actually testified and entered WITSEC.

      I know all about D’Amico’s legal tribulations and prison time and agree that he may have gotten a raw deal. Cooley was an even more dubious witness than Nick Calabrese. I don’t really have an opinion on whether or not Marco is actually made, but I tend to believe Joe Fosco because of his track record of reporting information on ANP, only to have the identical story pop up in mainstream media outlets months later. Also, Marco’s status in the Outfit doesn’t really interest me that much.

      I’m also aware of the quote from James Marcello’s Wikipedia entry that you cited above. I’m not really sure why you included it. Are you trying to say that if he had an Irish surname–as opposed to an Italian one–that he wouldn’t have been indicted and convicted back in the ’90′s?

    • Merlin Tenderpony

      Black Angelo,

      Nick Calabrese’s testimony against Marcello wasn’t hearsay. He was a material witness.

      The thin evidence against Marcello was Michael Spilotro’s daughter picking his voice out of a telephone line up. And, as with all the defendants except Nick C. and Joey Lombardo, there was a complete lack of physcial evidence linking Marcello to the murders he was convicted of.

      One could argue that Nick’s testimony concerning the Dauber murders was hearsay because he wasn’t there.

  • Black Angelo

    Merlin T, You dont get it.. or maybe that is too harsh. Your not understanding what i’m saying ! Okay lets just put it this way when dealing with the Gov’t PERCEPTION IS REALITY.

    Nick Calabrese very well could of been telling the truth or half/truths about what incurred in his Outfit lifetime.

    Marco Damico balked at going to trial because of the heavy evidence against him. And Marco balked at the Gov’t proving he was a Made Guy because PERCEPTION IS REALITY.

    Plus the Gov’t was set to realease recordings of Marco and Johnny DiFronzo displaying there power. Marco talking about how he gained it (a la Frank Sr.)

    Bobby Abbinanti also would of been “very screwed”. Alot of the general public does not know what he really does. Of course if you follow Organized Crime in Chicago and or ANP you can imagine what his role is.

    Bobby A thought he was too talking to an attorney (but he was on wire too). And yes Jimmy Light was telling the Judge the evidence is mighty thin in his 1992 Rico Case and if his name was not Jimmy Marcello or maybe Jimmy Flynn he would not be here.. That is how he felt from what I hear from a relative of his.

    Again Merlin T the Gov’t does not care what ANP has to say. The Gov’t is a dangerous bureaucracy that deals with facts, stool pigeons, informants and survaliance.

    In their eyes Marco is not only MADE but he is HIGH RANKING to boot. Nothing is going to change their minds (like nothing is going to change my mind or Joe Fosco’s mind about Marco)

    Marco did not want to bring any Gospel to light even if it was true.. he plead out instead of going to trial.

    • Merlin Tenderpony

      Black Angelo,

      How do you know the contents of recordings that the government didn’t release, and, specifically, how do you know that they contain recordings of Marco and Johnny DiFronzo “displaying” their power?

      I get what you’re saying about perception being reality. Maybe, that’s part of what I was getting at when I was arguing that whether or not Marco is made is immaterial because he respected in HIS world, which is what matters.

      By the way, I never said anything whatsoever about the government caring what American News Post has to say.

      My point was that Joe Fosco has said Marco is not made and cites a source. You have said that Marco is made and have cited various reasons for believing so. I, personally, don’t care. But, what I said is that I tend to believe Joe Fosco because of the fact that he has a history of breaking interesting news here in the threads (and in his articles), and sometime later the same news is splashed across mainstream news outlets. To me, that says Joe has some excellent sources because his claims are routinely corroborated. It’s too bad that he doesn’t receive credit or, at least, recogninition.

      Reread the thread. I never said anything at all about the government caring about the contents of this website.

      • Joseph Fosco

        Dear Merlin,
        Thank you for the kind words and recognition that I deserve for breaking news at ANP. The other larger media agencies fail to acknowledge my work as an investigative journalist because I do not have 300 people working in my office. Therefore, they think of me as a blogger. In the next 5-years, John Kass will be a blogger, because the larger newspapers will not be printing anything on paper in the future.

        • Merlin Tenderpony

          Joe,

          You’re welcome.

          I saw the other thread and am looking forward to any information about Joe Amato and further installments of the Daddono saga as it pertains to Outfit figures like Fratto.

  • Black Angelo

    Dear Merlin, Joe Fosco does know his shit. But there are many others out their in the “neighborhoods of Chicago” that know their shit also.. They Just Don’t Blog and or are computer illiterate. I’m somewhat computer illiterate so it all works out.

    I believe Marco is MADE and the facts are overwhelming that he is. I believe Johnny DiFronzo is MADE and the facts are overwhelming that he is.

    Ironically their maybe more evidence to support Marco is most certainly a MADE Guy to Johnny D being MADE Guy lol..

    Joe has a source (and Merlin he has not revealed his source pertaining to Marco NOT being Made). Nonetheless, I do believe Joe F has a source though.

    Again I tend to agree with Joe F. on a lot of his breaking news and then sometimes I feel he is off on some things. I certainly have that right.

    Also understand a source is a source is a source and Joe Fosco has sources, but then again Bill Roemer had sources this has been confirmed. That’s why I don’t believe ANYONE if there are OVERWHELMING FACTS to negate just some source. I don’t give a damn who it is.

    Okay Merlin hear is what you said about Joe Fosco:

    “I tend to believe Joe Fosco because of the fact that he has a history of breaking interesting news here in the threads (and in his articles), and sometime later the same news is splashed across mainstream news outlets. To me, that says Joe has some excellent sources because his claims are routinely corroborated.”

    So Merlin here is the question I propose to you.. You believe Marco is NOT made because of JF’s reputation of being SO right all the time ?? Correct ??

    Well then How come you DON’T believe JF on the Ortiz double murder “breaking news” story ???? Please explain. For the record I’m with Fosco on the Ortiz thing.

    By the way I don’t believe Jimmy I is Made but he is more powerful than Fat Sarno. Bobby Salerno is not Made (to my sources knowledge) but you can bet your ass if he was on the streets he to would be more powerful than Fat Sarno. So your right Merlin at the end of the day being made is useless in the Outfit.

    • Mr. Jingledonkey

      Joe,

      Joe, What is the status of Jimmy I (that MOTHER!) these days? Last time I saw him it was on the news and he was running from news cameras LMAO!!!

      (William “Bill” Roemer LOL! LOL!)

      • Joseph Fosco

        Dear Mr. Jing…,
        Jimmy I could have a position today similar to Capo. He is a ‘made’ guy and is well liked and respected by other Outfit guys.

    • City123

      Here’s what I know – fathers day 1988 was a making ceremony at the como inn. Her are names I was told were inducted – Marco, hatch, jimmy diforti , mike Sarno, solly d , Louis Marino, Gerry Scarpelli , Mario rainone , and bobby Abbinante

      • http://www.americannewspost.com Joseph Fosco

        Dear City 123,
        Marco and Rainone were not made, not ever.

      • Pagliaccio

        Mario Rainone????  Was Nick Gio there?

        • http://www.americannewspost.com Joseph Fosco

          lol

        • http://www.americannewspost.com Joseph Fosco

          lol

  • Merlin Tenderpony

    Black Angelo,

    Joe Fosco never stated that Hernandez murdered Ortiz and Morawski with certainty.

    Joe presented the Hernandez scenario as an alternative theory, which, in his opinion, casts reasonable doubt on the guilt of the Calabreses. As I said, having not been there when the murders occured, I have to concede that it is possible. However, because of compelling, objective evidence gathered and presented by the government (which includeds Frank C. explaining how it was done), I don’t think that it is plausible that Hernandez killed the pair in Cicero.

    There’s a difference between possibility and plausibilty, as you know.

    In my opinion, for the Hernandez scenario to be true, there would have to have been various conspiracies in motion, and I am very suspicious of conspiracy theories as a general rule.

    As for Marco, I don’t care about his place in the Outfit. I’ve been subject to banter on the topic for months in these threads. You and Joe have your own reasons for believing that he is or is not “made.” Joe has the reputation of being ‘on the know’ regarding things of that nature. Also, Joe is not the only one to say that Marco is not a made member of the Outfit. That famous Laborers’ Union Memo observes that D’Amico was not made while discussing that Matassa was.

    Bill Roemer and Robert Cooley said that Marco was made. You do, too. And more power to you.

    Again, I don’t care at all and don’t see the point of arguing about it any further.

    I’m just saying that if I had to GUESS one way or another about Marco’s status in the Outfit, I would guess that he’s not made based on Joe’s penchant for getting things 100-percent right.

    I’m sorry for engaging you on this once again. Let’s drop the subject, please. No hard feelings.

    • Joseph Fosco

      Dear Merlin,
      I appreciate your position of being suspicious of conspiracy theories. However, RICO cases are solely based on conspiracy theories. The Family Secrets defendants would have enjoyed having you on their jury.

      • Merlin Tenderpony

        I think you and I have two different understandings of what constitutes a conspiracy theory.

        • Joseph Fosco

          I understand. I was playing with you, I am sorry if I made you uncomfortable.

  • Merlin Tenderpony

    Joe,

    Seeing as there isn’t a more appropriate thread for this, I hope you don’t mind asking you a few questions about your writing process in this one.

    When do you decide to write an article, and what is your process? Do you confer with your sources first, or does the information in your articles consist of things that you committed to memory long ago?

    Does it take you a long time to write and article?

    Also, what is the fastest reaction to an article that you’ve ever had? Have people like Daddono or Messino ever called you up or submitted harrassing comments immediately after you’ve published an article about them?

    Thanks.

    • Joseph Fosco

      Dear Merlin,
      As much as I would enjoy answering your questions, I am afraid that ongoing investigations pertaining to a number of infractions committed against me would preclude me from answering at this time.
      Sincerely,
      JF

  • Black Angelo

    Joe Fosco this is kind of a two part question: If Jimmy I is in fact made.. Ask your source or (if you already know) when he was made, his sponsor, with whom he was made with and where ??? Now this would be BREAKING NEWS !!!

    As a side note if he was Made pre 1978 Turk or Joe Nick must have been his sponsor. And if he was Made after 1990 (who was his sponsor then ??) Just for the record the pre 1978 thing I certainly have trouble believing.

    I knew a fella that did some time with him back in 2002 at the MCC. He’s not the type of guy if MADE that throws around his status (so a lot of people could be in the dark about him like a Marco per say). Jimmy I also has a close relationship with the Caruso’s.

    Merlin T.. I accept your “opinion” on Marco not being made.. I’m actually glad you brought up that Matassa situation in which Marco was said to be mad Matassa was made and he was not. Well how come the G used these same informants (8 total) to say Marco was in fact made. The Gov’t was ready to present this. But never mind that.

    Okay Merlin you think Nick Calabrese was a monumental witness because of his status ?? (I happen to think BJ Jahoda was more effective, but that is another story.) Or because Nick turned on his brother (that is monumental). And or because Nick has “stated” he was a made guy.. He was so hush hush on the streets no one knew if he was Made.

    Unless he was in fact made and the people that was made with him witnessed this (they know the real truth). I know some guys on the street thinks he’s full of shit. But never mind that..

    Back to Pudgy Matassa.. The same informant that “allegedly” said Marco was intensely mad about Pudgy being Made.. Said Pudgy was formally Made at the Como Inn in 1989 (Solly DeLaurentis also got his button that day).

    Nick Calabrese’s testimony is contrary to that. Nick stated that Pudgy was made in 1983 at a closed restaurant on Roosevelt. So Merlin who do you believe ??

    This unknown C12 informant or Nick Calabrese ?? Oh and for the record Pudgy and Marco are actually very good friends. Pudgy for a long time was his driver in the early 90s. I believe Johnny DiFronzo wanted Marco to have a driver after his 1989 DUI (his 2nd one) . So Pudgy was assigned Marco’s driver and new drinking buddy (actually they had been the latter est the 1970s).

    As for Hatch Chiaramonti he may have swindled “pedigree gangsters” at his own will but he certainly was not greedy or disloyal to his superiors and or “real gangsters“. Because if your story is accurate well then LT Zizzo must of received said monies from Hatch. This is very interesting.

    There is not a doubt in my mind The Hatch would of remained loyal to Jimmy Light had he been on the streets then.

    I just know The Hatch had a problem with some of these new age gangsters who he thought was “soft”.

    As a side note LT was only out for a month before The Hatch got shot. Maybe a LT heavy like Richie Gervasio was a go between.

    Again anything on the Jimmy I questions and or more on the Zizzo disappearance would be appreciated.

    • Joseph Fosco

      Dear Black,
      I am not sure of the year that Jimmy I was ‘made’. However, I do believe that the LaPietras were responsible for the matter.

    • Merlin Tenderpony

      Black Angelo,

      If I knew all the answers I’d have my own blog, like Joe. So, I don’t know what to make of the controversy surrounding Matassa’s induction into the Outfit. But, I agree that there is a contradiction. Someone is wrong, obviously.

      • Joseph Fosco

        Dear Merlin,
        Which controversy? I do know that Matassa is a ‘made’ member of the Outfit. However, I doubt that he is as powerful as some believe he is.

        • Merlin Tenderpony

          Sorry, I was referring to the two incompatible accounts of Matassa’s induction.

          Joe, what would you say is the general opinion of Matassa that is held by other gangsters?

          • Joseph Fosco

            Most Outfit guys and associates that I have talked to regarding Matassa seem to laugh when his name comes up as if he is a joke. Coming from me (a non-Outfit guy), I believe he is deadly.

  • Mr. Jingledonkey

    Joe, what’s your take on all of this Marco “the Mover” D’Amico (LOL) talk on here?(Bobby “the Gabeet” Bellavia…that MOTHER!)

    • Joseph Fosco

      People like talking about him.

  • Merlin Tenderpony

    Bellavia was with Infelice, and if he isn’t dead, he’s in prison for murder, I think.

    Joe, do you know anything about Bellavia?

  • Merlin Tenderpony

    Joe,

    If Zizzo’s disappearance is mostly attributable to Cicero, was it Sarno, Marcello, or another Cicero figure who you suspect ordered it? On the surface, it seems unlikely that it was Marcello for obvious reasons.

    • The Don

      Merlin, I will look into the Rocky Infelice comment about the making ceremony of Solly D. It was in 1989 after Joe Ferriola died. Rocky became the Capo of the Cicero Crew & Solly D. became a made man and day to day manager of that particular franchise. Also, I noticed you asked a question about the Last Supper photo taken in 1976. Joey Auippa was the Top Boss and repesented the extended Cicero Crew. Missing was Capo Joe Ferriola because he’s part of the same Crew. Jack Cerone was the Underboss of the entire Outfit and represented the extended Elmwood Park Crew. Missing was Capo John DiFronzo who was also part of that Crew. Joey Lombardo represented Grand Ave., Turk Torello represented 26th Street, Vinco Solano represented North side/Rusht St. Crew and Al Pilotto represented the Chicago Heights Crew. Accardo was obviously the semi-retired Consigliere. Dominic DiBella was the former Boss of the North Side/ Rush St. Crew who was retiring because of ill health. Joey DiVarco was the new underboss/right arm to Vince Solano. Joe Amato was a strong made guy who ran a franchise out in the Northwest. Amato was not a Capo and neither was DiVarco. The picture was taken by Dominic Blasi. I asked my Uncle the same question years ago and that was his explanation. I think it is very accurate. I hope this clarifies it for you.

      • The Don

        Merlin, you also asked mentioned something about 100 Outfit guys left. That is a very low estimate I also read somewhere made by an investigator. He was estimating 25 made guys and 75 soldiers. However, Nick Calabrese estimated 60 Made guys, which was a lot more accurate, and maybe 180 soldiers. Right at the moment, it is probably around 40 or 50 made guys with about 120 to 150 soldiers. Sarno made a lot of new guys. During the time of Sam Giancana, which was at the peak, it was probably 75 Made Guys and 225 soldiers. This did not include guys in prison. the estimates were active guys on the street. The made guys usually are about 25% of the total membership of the Outfit. However, in addition, there are a lot of guys who are associates and do ‘business’ with the Outfit just like any other big company. Some of those guys might be mixed in with the soldiers.

        • Joseph Fosco

          When Jack Cerone would get fired up about something, he would say, “I have 400 men under me that would kill for me.”

        • The Don

          Merlin, If you type in the words ‘Mob Trial Focuses on Ritual’ you will see an article from January of 1992 featuring Jahoda, a believable informant who was a soldier under Infelice in the 1980′s, say that Infelice told him that when Ferriola had died, he became the Boss of the entire crew and that he sponsored DeLaurentis to be made and was surprised they still used fire and paper. The title of the article refers to the Family Secrets Trial, not the trial back in 1993 or whenever it was concerning Rocky and his crew. At that time, there was no focus on how someone got ‘made’ so Jahoda had nothing to gain by inventing that story because the Feds already had Rocky on a lot more serious things, like murder. Jahoda threw in that comment as an after thought, after the Feds had everything they wanted to convict Rocky and the others for the murder of the bookie, Hal Smith. If you read the court transcripts that were used to convict Rocky, there was no mention of that discussion because it wasn’t important. Again, Jahoda had no reason to make up that short dialogue between him and Rocky. It didn’t add or detract from the evidence used for the convictions.