Wow.

Really great article, Joe.

This was always a mysterious killing.

The only thing I ever heard was that English was constantly complaining about how much better things would’ve have been with the Outfit if Mooney hadn’t been knocked down.

I noticed that you stop just short of stating the it was Fratto who _ _ _ _ed English.

Didn’t they attempt with a car bomb first? Seem to remember something about a failed car bomb attempt?

Fratto was a car bomb specialist for Cerone’s crew. However, I have no information on previous attempts on English’s life. Sorry.

Interesting info about Messino’s sons having said weaponry. Does Rudy Fartto have the reputation of keeping firearms?

Hi Joe Fosco, I have a question. Do you still have an actual voice message yet on your cell phone from Joe Messino? Or was it only when you picked up the phone so you have no voice message? The reason is because there may be others that have been reported to the police from yet, more victims? It would help them?

Next thing I would like to understand something? Do you feel it’s wrong to give the victim’s of families of these crimes made by Joe numbers to call?

If that were not true then why bother answering some of the people that have come on here that had altercations from Joe Messino?

One more thing, Ijust like to read these stories and do not know much about Outfit crime figures. These is why I don’t do much commenting.

My heart is still with the victims in this area like Horseshoe Inn, ect. I mean why would anyone feel that giving them a number to call for homicide victims would be wrong?

There are serious things that have happened to folks, in case you do not remember.
I am planning on writing Mario Gonzelez a letter about a friend of mine who recieved similar phone calls. This will be for his records.

I already emailed a few police men from a local college. I advised that they see all this. The reason is because my friend’s brother knows them.
Phone threat’s are serious!
If you agree that it is important that victims should help each other on this Joe Messino guy then please, apologize for Tender Pony’s comment. Do you have any clue how wrong or rude that is?

Joe Fosco if you will, please, feel free to call any of the crime victims hot line numbers I have put on here for these victims of these stories you have on them.

I mean, my God, first you wish Tony Catalano a birthday wish, then you talk down any hotlines that people put on here for them!
Don’t you want Joe Messino punished for these violent crimes? Does anybody feel that the Horse Shoe Inn murder is one and the same person or is it just me?

As far as I know, Messino’s son was holding a number of deadly weapons for the Cerone/DiFronzo crew, which was really Willie’s responsibility. However, with Willie being a felon, he placed the items in the possession of his son Chris. However, Willie told his Outfit colleagues that he entrusted various items with his kids. For instance, he was holding 2-million dollars in cash for old man Cerone, which he entrusted with his daughter. When old man Cerone died, Jack (the lawyer) called in the 2-million. Willie checked with DiFronzo before turning it over to Jack. DiFronzo decided to let the lawyer have the money.

Dear SQE,
Unfortunately, I am unable to comment on the details relating to Messino’s threatening call to me. Again, thank you for the hotlines.

Joe,

What was English’s role in the Outfit in the 1980′s? Was he shelved by then?

He was maintaining some longstanding ventures stemming from his earlier days. I am unaware of the specifics. In addition, he held a small group of connection guys under his thumb.

Hey, Joe. Do you ever wonder happened to Harlem Playboy? Sometimes I get the feeling that he is still on here, posting under another name, but other times I think he’s gone forever. I miss him in a strange way. He could really make us laugh sometimes. What do you think ever happened to him?

Horsey, I heard he’s still cruising Harlem Ave. hoping to find Nick Gio.

LOL

Joe, unfortunately for Chuckie, he was one of those left over made guys from Taylor St. who happened to outlive pretty much all the guys who were part of the extended Taylor St. Crew. He was direct with Mooney which meant that Auippa & Cerone inherited him. It was an unhappy relationship. English didn’t like them and they didn’t like him. My Cousin in River Forest lived near him and knew his son whose name was Bobby English. Chuckie was heavy into the juke box racket years ago, loan sharking, & had some record label that was making counterfeit records or something of that nature. He liked Joe Gagliano a lot and I believe worked with him on some of the juke box distribution. Some of the reports that came out suggested that maybe he was involved in the murder of Mooney. Nothing could have been further from the truth. Chuckie English was the last guy Auippa & Cerone would have gone to concerning knocking down Mooney. If Cerone would have been stupid enough to approach English about it, English would have gone to Mooney and they would have killed Cerone. That’s how stupid and far off some of these reporters are about the Outfit. I’m surprised Chuckie lasted 10 years after they knocked down his hero, Mooney.

Joe, do you agree with my assessment about Chuckie English? anything to add?

It sounds reasonable.

Joe,  If it doesn’t interfere with your future book, do you have any information about the Chuckie Nicoletti hit? He’s the second one of the three made guys from Taylor St. that got killed. 1st was Dyno, 2nd was Nicoletti and 3rd was English. I already have a general idea but it would be great and interesting if you have any details you could share at this time. Maybe it would be a good idea to do an article about Alderisio & Nicoletti? These two guys worked very closely together. Even though my next point has nothing to do with the Nicoletti hit, Roemer also confused the situation more, like usual, by saying that Spilotro was under Alderisio. I don’t think that is accurate. Spilotro was not part of the extended Taylor St. Crew. I believe Spilotro came up with the Grand Ave. Crew and was ‘Made’ at some point and belonged to Lombardo, not Alderisio.

Hi Don, Your correct again. Alderisio had relatives up north that had very good connections. Those connections made the Outfit $$$$. He was not a rocket scientist to say the least. He got used like any other guy that earned. My Grandfather that is 83 years old now said exactly this “PA” pronounced *PAH*  meaning Alderisio was tough, but not the toughest “of the bunch”. He also said that the only thing that got him where he was, was his street smarts. He said he didn’t have the smarts to do anything innovative. He said he was “very crude”

The Don, Tony Spilotro was indeed Grand Ave Extended (belonged to Lombardo). Roemer made it sound as if he was with Taylor Street or learned his trait via Alderisio or Dyno. The M and M murders in fact was contracted out via Lombardo and the Elmwood Park/ Grand Ave crew. Because that was one of their main killers (Tony Spilotro). I do believe though some of his brothers was linked up through Cicero Extended (but not Michael Spilotro but one or two of the others).

Thank You Gentlemen,  All the Made men in the Outfit that Roemer hated were some very tough rough guys who  had one thing in common, absolutley no fear of Roemer.  Mooney, Sam Destefano, Alderisio & Spilotro. Three Taylor St. men & one Grand Ave. Man. Any of those four guys would have killed Roemer with no problem. One of them, Dyno, would have tortured him first before killing him. Roemer knew it and hated these men because of it. So, what does he do in his stupid bullshit inaccurate books? He purposely down grades each man INACCURATLEY because of something personal. I call that irresponsible journalism. Joe Fosco’s book will blow Roemer off the stage. Hell, if you took ALL the postings that have been made on Joe’s Blog’s for the last year and assembled them into a coherent book, that alone would blow Roemer’s Books off the map in my never humble opinion. I used to get really upset when I would read one of his books because I knew they were inaccurate because of misinformation and predjudice. My relative laughed at his books and actually threw one of them into this big open barbeque one summer when we were over to eat. 

Joe,  When Willie referred to Giancana, did he call him ‘ Cigar ‘? My relative almost always refered to Giancana as ‘ Cigar’, very rarely Mooney. 

I have heard the nickname ‘cigar’ (for Sam Giancana), but Willie referred to him as Mooney and so did my fathers wife (Romie’s sister).

I believe the nickname ‘cigar’ was mostly used as a point of reference. ‘Mooney’ was actually used when addressing Sam. Therefore, it could go both ways as a point of reference, ‘Cigar’ or ‘Mooney’.

Anything on who took out ANthony Borselino>?   I played ball with his grand son, never new he was conected until years after we fell appart.  I actually asked him in high school “Is your familly in the mafia>?”  Just busting his chops for being italian.  He responded “We dont talk about that”  I thought he was acting, or playing a part to get back at me.   Little did I know his Dad was a hit man for the outfit.