[...] Please continue reading about this story in my next article: Elmwood Park’s Finest – Part II. [...]

The truth of the matter is that Fagiano DOESN’T KNOW how Rada got the badge. He just wants it to go away. One good thing will come out of all of this situation. No one who is not an active police officer in Elmwood Park will be carrying around a police badge again, ( you hope).

Dear The Don,
Thank you for focusing on the positive side of this mess. Yes, no one will be carrying around a police badge again. Too bad it took for all of this to occur for Elmwood Park to do the right thing.

Furthermore, I am not as quick as you are to clear Fagiano, as if he does not know where Rada got the badge. The fact that the Chicago Police Department appears to have precluded the badge from evidence smacks of a favor. I will continue to watch the case unfold before I make any definitive conclusions.

True,  but that still doesn’t mean Fagiano knows where and how the kid got the badge. As far as the badge not going into evidence, Police officers always do small favors for each other. They have a tough job and they have to stick together. That will not change. Not that I’m excusing anyone, but the badge wasn’t used to commit a felony. I guarentee you that badge will never be found and this problem will probably never happen again. Not that I’m saying it’s right, But Joe, you will never stop the police officers from helping each other out over relatively small incidents. I think everyone has gotten the point loud and clear about the badge.

Dear The Don,I cannot argue with you, as you are probably correct. However, unlawfully possessing a firearm and cocaine and firing the gun while using the badge to pretend he was a police officer means that Rada was most certainly in commission of felonies.

Furthermore, if the badge is gone, someone in the Chicago Police Department is going to have some explaining to do. I will see to it.

Well, I suppose the first thing to do is to find out who the arresting officer/officers were in the incident. Then you have to follow the trail of confiscated evidence from the arresting officer to the booking officer in the station. Then if the badge made it to the station with the other evidence, then you’ll have to see who had access to the evidence. I say, good luck to you and I commend your fortitude. However, somebody high up in that Chicago precinct got the word to get rid of the badge. It will be hard to pinpoint who actually got rid of it. In other words, no one officer will get blamed and the fucking badge will have been misplaced and disappeared and that will be the end of it. However, like I said, I commend your fortitude because you’re not wrong. 

The Don, I agree with what you said 100 %. However not sure why Rada would have that gun and a badge (and cocaine on top of that) all in one setting. The Elmwood Park Police have nothing to do with that (that is why I agree with what you said). By the looks of his mugshot it seems he might not be playing with a full deck. In other words he doesnt look like the sharpest tool in the shed.

Perhaps a major news network could come in handy, if only to shine a spotlight on the ongoing games the Outfit could cause in 2011.

Would you like a copy of the police report?

LOL
Well, with the help of his mother, he played Willie like a piano, which netted all of Willie’s money when he died. I estimate Willie’s worth at the time of his death at roughly 1-million in cash.

Not really, But thanks anyway. As far as Willie having close to 1 million in his own personal cash when he died, he made that personal acumulation from about 1986 forward. It all began when Lee Became the Capo within the Extended Elmwood Park Group and John remained not only the Boss of Elmwood Park but becamethe Underboss of the Entire Outfit. In other words, Willie’s luck turned around when Cerone went to Jail. 

As far as Willie being a Co-Underboss with DiFronzo, that would have been a real short arrangement. DiFronzo would not have wanted to share any of his income with Willie as Underboss. Also, whose idea was it? Cerone liked to keep Willie down and something like that would have been mostly his call because we’re talking about Elmwood Park. However, Auippa would have had a say in it also. I’ll bet the arrangement didn’t last but a week. Willie was a very trusted subordinate to Johnny and that’s really where he belonged.

As far as Willie being a Co-Underboss with DiFronzo, that would have been a real short arrangement. DiFronzo would not have wanted to share any of his income with Willie as Underboss. Also, whose idea was it? Cerone liked to keep Willie down and something like that would have been mostly his call because we’re talking about Elmwood Park. However, Auippa would have had a say in it also. I’ll bet the arrangement didn’t last but a week. Willie was a very trusted subordinate to Johnny and that’s really where he belonged.

Dear The Don,
Yes, it was very short. It was so short that it ended by the very first meeting they had with out-of-town affiliates, which was designed to be the first meeting of its kind, explaining to the rest of the country what the new structure of the Outfit was. Willie thought it would be a good idea to show the affiliates how ruthless he was. Unfortunately, for Willie, he showed his own people how wrong he was for the job.
Yes, Cerone liked to keep Willie down, but he was more interested in keeping count of the money. Two sets of eyes are better than one. In addition, Joey Aiuppa loved Willie. He knew Willie was the gun that would take Cerone out whenever he wished (Willie was to Jack what Butch Blasi was to Mooney). I gathered that Carlisi appeared to have more to do with ending Willie’s short-lived position as co-underboss because Willie loved Johnny to the end and hated Carlisi.

Joe,  Who do think Cerone trusted more, Johnny the new Boss of Extended Elmwood Park & Underboss of the Outfit, or Lee, the new Capo within the Elmwood extended Group? Also, I don’t think Cerone would have gotten a lot of money anymore after 1986. Generally, when one of Bosses goes away for a long time towards the end of their life, The new Boss takes over what he had so I’m not sure exactly what Willie would have been watching for Jack unless Jack thought he was getting out a lot sooner than he did. Your thoughts?

Also,  I heard that when Cerone knew he was finally getting out, even though he wasn’t in the best of health, he had greedy ideas of trying to actually arm DiFronzo The Boss  & Andriacchi, who had become the Capo within the Elmwood Extended group when Lee died. So, not only was Willie available for Auippa, but so was Johnny and Joey A. They would not have tolerated Cerone for one minute with that ‘ I’m the Boss, you owe me attitude ‘.  Especially Joey A. who never did respect very many of Cerone’s selfish self motivated decisions which I heard about here and there over the years which are too numerous to go into detail. Let’s just say a lot of them centered around his son and Cerone Senior’s personal interests that had nothing to do with business.

Dear The Don,
I think Jack appreciated Johnny’s brains, but thought more of Lee for the rough stuff, not much more, because he certainly trusted Johnny with a great deal of rough stuff. Let’s face it, brains are more important (I am not calling Lee dumb; I am saying he was not as smart as Johnny was).
True, Jack would not have received much money (if any) from the Outfit while in prison, which is a big part of the reason Willie was made co-underboss. Jack believed that if anyone would have given him a piece of the action, it would be Willie. Little did Jack know that when he died, the 2-million Willie was holding for him was ordered to go back to the Cerone family by DiFronzo. Willie wanted to swing with it, thinking he would split it with Johnny. Johnny is normally a standup guy when it comes to money. It is unfortunate that Rudy Fratto somehow manipulated DiFronzo into the extortion against me. Rudy is a clever conman/gangster (greedy Pete was Rudy’s direct connection in the case of the extortion of my family). I look forward to seeing Rudy again, which will be the next time a judge sends him to prison.

I agree. I think the only person Jack would have had behind him would have been Michael Maganafichi. At the time, Michael could have put together a serious crew. It would have been interesting. Personally, I would have thought that Aiuppa’s crew would have won the battle. Today, Michael would be buried right next to Jack. Michael and I have discussed this before and he agrees with me.

The Extortion against you benefited Fratto financially much more than DiFronzo. I bet if Johnny could go back into time and change the past, he would have paid more attention to what was ACTUALLY happening in your situation and would have ordered it to stop. Whatever cut he may have gotten from it wasn’t worth the aggravation you’re giving him. Believe me.

No question, not even close. Auippa had the extended Cicero power base plus he had the other Capos who were his partners with their men. Michael wouldn’t have lasted one week. No offense to him. Noone would have lasted one week.

Joe, did Willie ever talk to you about the time he spent in the can. I read somewhere that he was beat down by a group of blacks in prison, is that true?

Joe, what were some of the other Midwestern outfits that Chicago had regular contact with during the time you were hanging out with Willie and Jack? Cleveland, Detroit, and Milwaukee? Frank Ball from Milwaukee was supposed to be a rough guy, but he went to prison in the 1980′s. Is there anything left up there?

Willie told me many stories about his time in prison, both terms (30s and 70s). He never discussed the beating. However, I heard details from close sources. Yes, it was true. During the beating, he was hit in the head with a pipe. He was in bad shape for a while after that beating. I knew Willie got even with the source that injured him outside of prison. He told me of the story, but never mentioned why. I assume it was the source that beat him.

Dear HF,
I would like to point out that Willie was nothing but Johnny’s personal soldier and Jack (the lawyer) was nothing at all. Therefore, I did not have a great deal of exposure to The Outfits national interests. Through Jack, who was pretending to be a gangster (pretending like Rada the ‘wannabe cop’), I had exposure to the Cleveland guys on numerous occasions. On one instance, I was witness to a meeting that Willie setup between the Kansas guys and Johnny.

Through Buddy Ciotti, I had exposure to the Outfits international interests.

Joe–who were these out of town affiliates at this meeting?  What city were they from?  You said you met guys from Cleveland and KC…any names you met?  Perhaps Russell Pappalardo or Joe “Loose” Iacobacci from Cleveland?

Joe,  Your answer to Dom 4 hours ago came out real narrow and illegible. Could you re answer his question up here?

Horsey,  My relative said Willie also attended a meeting in New York with Jack. He was proud to be ‘ Jack’s Man ‘ as the story was related to me. Willie many times served as Jack’s chauffer/ bodyguard  in the same way Blasi served Mooney. Remember also, Willie lived across the same street from Jack in Elmwood Park down about 5 houses. He was available to Jack 24/7.

Don, do you think the Outfit still maintains an open line of communication with the East Coast mafia groups?

The prison question? illegible? How so (illegible)?

I understand your question now. I took a look a the thread. I am sorry about the way it came out. Here is my answer:Willie told me many stories about his time in prison, both terms (30s and 70s). He never discussed the beating. However, I heard details from close sources. Yes, it was true. During the beating, he was hit in the head with a pipe. He was in bad shape for a while after that beating. I knew Willie got even with the source that injured him outside of prison. He told me of the story, but never mentioned why. I assume it was the source that beat him.

I am interested in hearing about it. What stories can you share?

LOL

Joe, Black Sam was supposedly a vicious bastard. Did your dad know him? Got any anecdotes? 

Mike Corbitt argues in his book that Carlisi was JB’s right arm when Cerone and Aiuppa were in prison. What is your opinion on that?

Yes I do. However, probably not as much like it was in the past. The one New York Family that was mentioned in the past was the Genovese Family. Jack went to see them with Willie being his Driver/Assistant/Bodyguard. Willie was very proud to have gone to New York with Jack. The union business and union connections go across state lines so that’s why I believe the meeting took place. Even though New York would probably never come out and say it, they were always impressed, at least in the past, about how The Outfit had control and influence in Chicago. In addition to the Top Boss and the Underboss of the entire Outfit, it was always  a tremendous asset for anyone outside of Chicago to be allied with any of the 6 Capos also. The two Capos in the Top Two Bosses Crew and any of the other 4 Capos. Each one of those peole would be pretty much equal to any of the Bosses or Underbosses in New York. On an average, a the made guys in Chicago were more powerful than the made guys in New York. In New York, they made everybody and his brother. All the soldiers in New york are made guys and they go out and do a lot of things on their own and simply give a cut to their Captain who doesn’t even know half the time where the money is coming from. Not so in Chicago. All the made guys in Chicago would be comparable to the ‘ Captains ‘ in New York. The soldiers in Chicago only have power through the made guy they are with and they do specific jobs for him.  Chicago has always been much better organized than New York. Also, even though The Outfit is organized into sub groups, each subgroup is a partner with the Top Bosses on everthing. Not so in NewYork.  They are more seperate and only partner with each other on some agreed upon things. There is no Top boss either so it’s more chaotic and unpredictable like John Gotti deciding to Kill his own Boss, Castellano. The only Boss in the Outfit since Al Capone to ever get killed was Mooney and we know why and what happened there. In New York, there is a long list based upon the more looseness of that Organization. At any time, at least in the past,  it could have turned into the Wild West. The biggest mistake these guys make who talk about the Outfit on television or who write books about the Outfit is when they try and make it seem like the Outfit is patterned after New York. Couldn’t be farther from the truth.

My dad knew Black Sam and they loved each other. Black Sam’s cousin Charlie Nicosia was one of my father’s closest friends. Charlie used to tell me many wonderful things about my father and always mentioned how beautiful of a person he was. I know my dad loved him. Getting back to Black Sam, yes, again, my dad was very close to him.Anyone who was Joe B’s right arm in the last 20-years of his life had an honorary position. Joe was retired for a long time. I have to give Jack and his crew credit for treating him as if he were still the boss when they did not have to ever speak to him. I think that a lot of the guys who had access to Joe B liked to ask him for advice. However, he did not have the last say on anything, which is contrary to common belief.I will add that Joe B naturally commanded respect because of who he was. He could have asked people to kill for him up until the day he died and they would have out of respect, not because they had to. However, most midlevel and low-level Outfit guys never knew it, and would have simply made the mistake of assuming he was boss of bosses. Then again, with Jack Cerone eager to do anything to aid Joe B, in a way, perpetuated Joe’s boss status.

I may have lost a lot of you on this one, but I have a feeling The Don follows what I am saying.

I realize that in the minds of some of you, the information that I shared about Joe B today might compromise my earlier assertion that Joe B was Jack’s guardian angel. One could ask, if Joe B was retired from the Outfit in latter years, why did Joey O not kill Jack when Joe was alive. I have one answer: respect. Joey O had enormous respect for Joe B and would do anything he asked, out of respect, not fear.

Joe,  I heard that when Joey L. was in prison at the same time as Willie, he was approached by two black guys who wanted his expensive looking shoes. No fight took place. Joey stood up and looked directly into the eyes of the one guy who wanted the shoes so badly and told him calmly ” You can take them if you want but you’ll never live to enjoy wearing them ouside of prison.”  The guy never took the shoes.

Horsey,  Corbitt exaggerated his importance like all informants. He mixed truth with wishful thinking. My relative and I specifically discussed Corbitt. Corbitt went no higher than Bastone who was a strong made guy. Corbitt was like a soldier/associate. Accardo was closer to DiFronzo than Carlisi because they were both from the same crew and had the same beginnings, Grand Ave!

Agreed 110%. Could not have said it better. Excellent  Joe!

Dear The Don,I am sure that the story you shared is accurate. However, it is not the only story about Willie’s prison term. Please trust me when I say that Willie was beaten very badly in prison. Apparently, it was at a different time than the story you shared, but he was beaten.In fact, a story about Jack quickly: some prisoners from Texas almost killed him in prison. However, there were enough prisoners connected to Jack, who jumped in saving his baldhead.I will crank up a piece on Jack. Did I ever share the one about the time he threatened to have Joey A and Lee shoot Elmer Conti in the head?

Thank you.

Carlisi was originally from New York, but pretty much fell in with Aiuppa and Cerone after he came to Chicago.

Joe,  I was strictly talking about Joey L. and the shoes, not Willie. That story only concerns Joey L. and no one else. In fact afterwards, Joey became friends with one of the black guys that wanted his shoes. Do you now follow what I was saying? I’m sorry if I confused the issue by mentioning Willie’s name.

All Mafia groups west of the Mississippi answered to Chicago in one way or another. that included Detroit and Cleveland. I remember a made guy from Detroit was in prison with Joey L. and they had a disagreement. Joey L. told the guy to shut up because Detroit comes to Chicago for a favor, not the other way around. New York and Chicago were always the two big Mafia powerhouses. I don’t think there is much left in Milwakee but Joe might know better than me.

I am sorry for the misunderstanding. Were Joe and Willie locked up together for any part of the time? I know that Willie spent most of his years in a prison for women. Women were not whom he caught the beating from, lol.

In Particular Auippa. He was Auippa’s man. In the early days when Mooney was the Top Boss, Carlisi was Auippa’s chauffer/assistant from what I was told.

Yes, there is no doubt that Carlisi was Aiuppa’s man. Thank you.

I believe they were but for how long I do not know. That was always a sore subject. George Bravos was also locked up but for a shorter period of time.

Joe,  Besides cranking out a piece on Cerone, is it possible to do a piece on Mooney? That would generate a lot of good discussion. Mooney was the best Boss the Outfit ever had and then we could get into the 42′s and the Taylor St. Crew which was what it was all about at that time. What do you think?

Joe,

I’ve been on this blog for a long, long time and have finally decided to bring this up.

My grandfather was born and raised on Polk Street., and my own mother lived there for the first part of her life. (Later, they relocated to the suburbs where I was born and partially raised.) While all of my immediate family were / are legitimate, there are some extended family members of mine who I have come to find out were “floaters” between New York and Chicago from the 1940′s through the 1970′s. 

(In New York, they were affiliated with the Gambino and Luciano/Genovese groups. I don’t want to mention in the threads who they were “with” here in Chicago, though the fact the my they’re from Polk St. will probably tip you off.)

If I were to email you a particular surname, could you guarantee me the utmost discretion–i.e., not to reveal the “name” in the threads? 

Please, keep in mind that I may decide NOT to email you–but if I do, would you agree not to reveal the name(s)?

Hey “the Don,”

How is the old guy, your relative? He’s still around, isn’t he…down near where the Chicago Fire play? 

I have heard nothing but good things about him, as far as character. 

Do you still talk to him?

He’s 75 years old. He’s still around but we have not spoken in almost 2 years. Yes, despite his serious faults, he has a real good side to him and is very loyal to people he likes. He is a very black & white kind of guy. He has a very strong inner toughness beside physical. Anyone who has done a total of 9 years in prison is pretty tough.

Good to hear…I don’t mean to pry. I meant no disrespect…just curious. 

No Problem Brother. Have I been helpful in answering some of your questions? I’ve really shared a lot of knowledge on these threads and I do enjoy it. When I was younger, I wanted to belong to the Outfit. I admit it. However, I’m glad I didn’t take that path in my life. 

Ah, George, Willie did not care for him too much, despite having numerous dealing with him.

I do not know if i could do a piece good enough to compliment his position. I will try.

Agreed.

Furthermore, I have established a special place for names that must be kept top secret. I setup this program after I made the mistake of mentioning a name associated with The Don. A mistake could not occur again. Thank you.

I would not want to do 9-minutes.

I bet you could. Take your time with it and I know it would be great! Mooney would bring about a lot of interest. You could preface it with Paul Ricca, his mentor, and how Paul brought him into his Power crew on the West side which turned into the Taylor St. Crew. You could talk also talk about the Kennedy’s. Black Angelo and I would really expand on it. Doing articles on the Outfit and not doing one on Mooney would be like talking about the history of Rock N Roll and not mentioning The Beatles! 

 Teets, the Don and others, Hey I see you like to hear about Outfit guys in knockdown drag-out fights. I got a great story my source told me the other night. A couple of good stories that happened in the 1950s (that may or may not have shaped the future of the Outfit or certain street crews). Two fights involving Marco D’amico and Joe Andriacchi. One happened in the summer of 1957. Marco was 21 and Joe A was 25. Anyhow it involved a girl and Joey A (who at the time was Marco’s mentor) said he should stay away from the “braud”. Because the female took a liking to Marco instead of Joey A. And Joey A had actually introduced the girl to Marco the week before. Anyhow, Marco said with all do respect Joe “she chose me buddy”. Joe said “f*ck you we’ll fight right here if we have to”. Joey A than smacked Marco. Marco than hit him with one punch and Joe A was knocked out cold.  The toughest “young turk” back then from the Grand Ave or Elmwood Park area was Rich Penachio. He witnessed it and scolded Marco for doing it but understood why he did it (normally Penachio would of kicked the sh*t out of anyone who f*cked with Joey A, but with Marcos size and brute force he decided against fighting Marco). Plus I was told Marcos younger brother Gaetano (Guy) was ready to fight also. He was just as tough as Marco. The Damico brothers where bricklayers starting at a early age and had big strong hands. They was known around lil Italy as being a bunch of “roughneck bricklayers”.  Anyhow there is no question Joey A had Huge Balls, because two years later in 1959 I was told. Marco and Joey A got in a fight over some winnings at a all night poker game. Joey A lost big in the game and refused to pay Marco. As a sidenote Joey A was upcoming in the Elmwood Park crew as a big time burglar (he was known as Sledge in those days I’m told) and Marco still wanted to join him in the Elmwood Park group. But Marco being the man of principle he is. Told Joey A hey look “you’re my guy, my mentor but you f*cking lost, you owe me, so pay up… you know I like you but your cruising for a bruising if you don’t pay up”. Joey who was drinking that night got up and took a swing at Marco and Marco ducked and hit him with a bottle and then pummeled him to the ground. One of Joey Lombardo’s and Andriacchi’s younger brothers broke up the fight. This was actually witnessed by Jack Cerone Esq. (who was 19 years old at the time in college and at the poker game).  Anyhow long story short, the word was already on the street about how tough this Marco Damico was. He purportedly averaged 15 fights a year from 1955 – 1966. That is 165 fights for all you mathematical genius out their. Winning most of those fights.  Jackie Esq was enamored with Marco and told his father “this guy Marco from the neighborhood is super tough dad !”. (Marco up to the time had purportedly beat up some punks for the young Jackie to impress his father. Jackie Esq couldn’t fight his way out of a wet paper bag. But whenever Marco or Guy was around Jackie Esq. Esq got real tough with bar patrons and what not, because he knew Marco would back him). Anyhow word got back to Elmwood Park Boss Jackie Cerone Sr. and he told any or everybody he wanted nothing to do with the quote “that punk Damico kid” and he told his son (Jackie Esq) and other associates a “hot head like that would be dead in a trunk by the time he’s 30 years old” *as a side note Marco is 75 and still alive*… anyhow some on the streets till this day think Joey A went back to his bosses and then up the chain to Jackie Cerone to blackball Marco from the Elmwood Park group.  However Turk Torello saw something in the young Marco Damico that Jackie Cerone did not see and introduced Marco to how the juice loan business was done and the underworld of Cicero gaming. Marco already at the time understood gambling and bookmaking. Obrien immediately took a liking to Marco and liked his “go getter mentality and that he could be extremely violent at the drop of a hat” (which is good in the juice loan business).  Anyhow, Marco got married in 1960 and moved to Cicero (near Turk) and the rest is history. Marco is probably one of the physically toughest guys to ever walk the streets as an Outfit guy. People here about him and how he would destroy you physically when he was in his 40s (which would have been in the 1970s Disco Era) or how he bit off a police officers finger in 1983 during a tussle. But Marco had a reputation going back to the 1950s. Peter DiFronzo, Lee Magnifichi, Joe Andriacchi, Joe Lombardi where all very very tough guys (Penachio was tougher than them all though I’m told.. To bad he died a horrible death). Marco was tougher than them all.  The only Outfit guys born in the 1930s that was tougher than Marco was probably Bobby Salerno. Hatch Chariamonti, Tony Borse and Butch Petrocelli was very tough also. But Marco could box (like Salerno), the Hatch was not a boxer, But was “cock strong and loved violence” Something Black Sam loved about the Hatch.  As a side note to Marco beating down Joey A twice during the Eisenhower era. I must say in all fairness to Joey Andriacchi that Marco was taller than him and outweighed him by 50 lbs or so. In a fight that can be all the difference in the world.

George was mainly a Bookmaker. Somehow he got involved in the situation with Willie & Joey L. Maybe they brought him along as added muscle. I don’t really know. Joey L. didn’t care for Bravos too much either. I think there was some predjudice there against Greeks. To this day, I know Joey L. doesn’t like Greeks too much. Joe, if you can remember, what was the real name of Little Five?

i agree. I will try.

I did not want to say it, but, since you did, yes, Willie did not like Greeks.
I know someone who remembers Little Five, I will ask him the name, because I cannot recall right now. I wish you could ask your uncle.

Black Angelo,  That was a very good story. You are most probably older then me and you would know some of those old stories. You made one real interesting point. You said Joey A. discouraged Elmwood Park from bringing a young Marco into the picture as a soldier and member of the crew. So, instead he started out as a soldier in the Cicero Crew. I did not know this history about Marco. Well, somehow, someway he ended up in the Elmwood Crew which is certainly possible but very unusual. Normally, and Marco was apparantly an exception, when a man is taken into a crew to work under a made man as a soldier, he stays with that crew for life whether he moves up and becomes made or not. This is what my relative explained to me on a couple of occasions, because my relative would have preferred being in the Taylor St. Crew since he was born and raised there. However, once he started with Elmwood Park and then later moved up, he is with them for life, even as an older man basically retired. He could still be called upon by Johnny for something if neccessary. You explained on other threads that Auippa had sent Marco over to Elmwood Park. But, Cerone didn’t like Marco and was the Boss of Elmwood Park. My question is for Joe. Joe, Did Marco start out in Cicero and then go to Elmwood Park?Seems unusual, but there are exceptions to everything. One thing for sure, with all of the other aside, Marco was/is a big strong tough man who was/is a tremendous earner and is with Johnny directly. How he got there is still a question in my mind.

Joe, I am interested in hearing the story Willie told you (when Willie got even with the guy from prison). Can you tell it?

The Don I dont know how old you are but have an idea (and yes i’m probably older than you lol), But “Yes” Marco was with Cicero/Taylor Street for decades. Around the early to mid 1980s Obrien sent Marco out to Elmwood Park (with his entire crew). I believe the sly fox Johnny DiFronzo conspired with Obrien (behind Joe Andriacchi and Lee Magnifichi) to get Marco out in Elmwood Park. This was common knowledge to some. Usually when Obrien sent someone from a area to another area they where to be the capo, i.e. when Angelo LaPietra and his crew went from Cicero to 26th street before and after Turk’s death. However Marco may have been direct with Johnny D which would of made him more powerful in a way. i.e Pete DiFronzo. Obrien was Top Boss – Chairman in the 1980s he could of overruled anyone. He went straight Chairman status when he went away and Black Sam was #1 (Johnny DiFronzo # 2). The deal was made Cerone could name his underboss but not his capo. Black Sam was 1 – underboss #2 was Johnny DiFronzo (until 1992 or so Johnny became 1). I have a good source and he told me within the last year Johnny DiFronzo is straight Chairman of the Outfit and the new (his) # 1 is none other than Marco. That would mean Marco is top boss in the Outfit. (The Don, kind of like Ricca and Mooney in the 1950s/60s). I know Joe would disagree with me on this but this is what I was told, but coupled with some things I know on my own I agree Marco is the #1. By the way my source was mad I failed to mention Donny Scalise and Frank Calabrese sr. as tough young turks coming up in the 1950s/60s. He also said Leonard Foresta was the toughest “young turk coming up in Taylor Street with Bobby Salerno in the 1950s (post 42 gang the new era of toughs in that area). But I would hate to be in a physical altercation with Sponge in his prime and or Frank the Breeze.

Black Angelo,  Well, If I were to translate what you said, this is the understanding that I  have from you plus my own interpretation. If  Marco was a soldier in the beginning with Cicero, then sometime in the late 1970′s or beginning of the 1980′s, Marco was ’transfered ’ to Elmwood Park by Auippa. That means that Marco was made at this point by Auippa and sent to Elmwood Park as a made guy with a franchise of soldiers. If true, then in the early 1980′s, Cerone was the Boss of the Extended Elmwood Park Crew and DiFronzo was the Capo within the crew. So, Cerone gained a made man and Marco shared his income with Cerone & Auippa or there would be NO LOGICAL reason for Auippa to demand that Marco be sent to Elmwood Park. Assuming this is how it happened, then Marco was already made before he went to Elmwood Park. However, if true, I disagree with you that Marco was a Capo in the late 1970′s or early 1980′s. He was not. If he went to Elmwood Park during the time frame you stated, DiFronzo was the Capo within the Extended Elmwood Park group. the best scenario would be like I stated earlier, is that Marco would have possibly been a made man sent to Elmwood Park with his crew of soldiers and shared his income with Auippa & Cerone. This would be the only logical way it could have happened if what you say is true. Too bad I can’t go back in time and ask my relative.  At least I’m giving you that possibility. Joe Fosco will not go as far as me on it. As far as 2011, your basically saying that Elmwood Park is the modern Taylor St. Let me translate. Johnny is in the same position as Ricca. Andriacchi, not Marco, would be in the same position as Mooney. Marco would be in the same position as Battaglia, in other words Capo within the Extended Group with made men under him as supervisors, and Pete DiFronzo would be a strong made guy and personal underboss to his Brother Johnny. Again, this is the only logical way your scenario works.   

Don
Why dOnt you try to write something about Mooney. I’m sure you have the knowledge and ability.

The Don, Marco I believe was a made guy before 1980. My source tells me he was also. Bob Cooley wrote a book “when corruption was king”. Cooley is a stool pigeon and very arrogant bald headed f*ck. But his book (i must admit) is collabarated with wire taps and just personal retrospect. For Instance Cooley said he knew Johnny DiFronzo (well I believe him). Plus I personally know (or knew) Cooley and know he knew Marco very well… as well as a lot of those 26th street guys. Anyhow there is a passage in the book where he was in debt to a guy on a gambling loss or something to that magnitude. The guy that wanted his money belonged to Tony Spilotro. This was 1976 or so. Anyhow Tony Spilotro flew in to Chicago (via Vegas) and demanded Cooley to pay up or he was going to “Bust his head wide open”. Cooley refused. Tony told him he would be back the next day and if he did not pay up their would be severe consequences. Anyhow Tony showed up the next day and was ready to do something violent to Cooley. And at the last minute Cooley told Tony “he knew Marco and or belonged to him”. Tony Spilotro immediately backed down. Now the Don I believe this happen.. Cooley would have no reason to lie about that going either way. Tony Spilotro either feared touching Marco’s guy (at the time) or knew how the Outfit worked where one made guy owns another independent so to speak. And the Don I think your thinking a little to hard on this. Marco can be # 1 and leap frog any or anybody without ever being a Capo. If the Chairman or boss of the Outfit selects a guy to be his #1 than that is final. Look how fast Mooney rose to power. And age has nothing to do with it. Turk Torello was born in 1930, so he was way way younger than Skids Caruso and Angelo Lapietra. But Turk in or around the mid 1970s leaped frog them and had more power than them. Why was Turk so much more powerful than these older men, easy because Obrien said so ! Johnny DiFronzo did the same thing in the late 1960s (when Willie went away) I believe Willie was more powerful than Johnny in the 1950s and part of the 60s. But his imprisonment caused him some rank I believe. Willie Messino was way older than Johnny D. Anyhow all I’m saying is Marco is # 1 now and made of course and him being or never being a capo has nothing to do with nothing. Your Thoughts Don ?

Yes, In my scenario I said Marco would have had to be made in the late 1970′s in order for Auippa to send him and his soldiers more towards the Elmwood Park way. So, in your opinion, the old story about Cerone never making Marco was only a rumor because Marco was already made by Auippa in the late 1970′s.  Also, You’re Correct. Carlisi was technically not a Capo within the Extended Cicero Group with Auippa and then became the Boss of the Group and the Top Boss in the Outfit over Ferriola who was the Capo. My only different opinion was that I felt Andriacchi was of higher rank than Marco, especially since Marco had been gone for a long time. Other than that, I can see how your reasoning is quite possible. Your compariosn of modern extended Elmwood Park Crew to the Old Extended Taylor St. Crew does have merit because of the Dominence Of Elmwood Park today. However, it ends there, because in my opinion the Old extended Taylor St. crew with Ricca , Mooney, Battaglia, Bucciere and all the made Taylor St. Men will never be equaled again. Never! Your thoughts?

Tony,  Thank you.

 Black Angelo,  I’m very familiar with Cooley, the Irishman. I believe he was very vital in putting Marco & some of his soldiers in prison in 1994. I have to laugh when I read some of the comments about what happened and some uninformed stupid reporter says that Cooley helped sink the entire Elmwood Park Crew in 1994. No, putting Marco and some of his men in jail in 1994 was only PART of the Elmwood Park Crew. it was one of the franchises. A lot more of Elmwood Park still existed along with of course the other 5 Street crews. That’s the beauty of the structure of the Outfit. The Feds can only get a part of it at any time. That’s why it was divided into 6 Street crews. Then, each Street Crew can be broken down into smaller sub crews with the made men who supervise franchises. Would you not agree? 

The Don, Nobody well ever equal what Mooney did for Organized Crime in America and or the Outfit as a whole. But Marco is the only guy on the street with a “substantial” crew to be put in place. For Instance Tony Dote is much more powerful than Joe Fosco wants to give credit for. When Marco got his spot, Tony Dote took over his spot as the Outfit Gambling Czar. The funny thing is Tony Dote could do more for Michael Magnifichi than Mags could do for Dote. you get my drift ? I rest my case. And I’m hearing Johnny DiFronzo was impressed that Marco did not get caught on wire tap like Frank Calabrese and Jimmy Marcello (at Milan Federal). And that helped elvate Marco upon his release in 2005. Joe Andriacchi is just a capo but of many crews such as Elmwood Park and Grand. But he does not control gambling (Tony Dote does). And Solly D, Pudgy Matassa, and Jimmy I are under Marco as strong lieutinants.

Well, You’re right that Marco never got caught on tape. I personally have never underestimated Dote. I think the guy who was over rated was Mike Magnaficchi. His father was a powerhouse, but in my opinion, Michael is not an earner and has not been for the last 10 years. DiFronzo doesn’t like him and he ruined a lot of the relationship with Joey A. To be honest, he’s kind of a cry baby. I agree with you on one big point you made in the post above me. My relative said to watch Marco when he gets out because they don’t call him The Mover on the street for nothing. Secondly, I was told he was Johnny’s man. That’s why I thought he got made in the early 1990′s. However, according to you it happened 10 to 15 years earlie by Auippa. This leads me to my last point which I’m sure you will agree with me. Elmwood Park is the Dominent Crew. All the other crews are partners of some sort with Elmwood Park.  I believe Marco oversees Bookmaking in Chicago in the same way Ferriola did years ago from Cicero when they were the Dominent Crew. Marco’s men supervise the office guys who take the action on the phones from the  customers of the 25 % street agents. In addition,  Made guys or Capos from the other crews are partners with Marco and  ‘ lay off ‘ their excess action to Elmwood Park. That’s the way it worked in the past for years when Auippa was the Top Boss and that’s the way it works now, in my opinion. I think you see it the same way. I just go about explaining it a little differently because I’m used to hearing and observing it from a very organized pattern so I tend to explain it that way. Do You agree?

Cicero was the dominant crew for a long time after Mooney. But Elmwood Park has been dominant since the 1980s. Although Chinatown – 26th street had a powerful # 2 guy for years out that way “Apes”. As you know Don the “Apes” was from Cicero (Cicero Extended) and one of Obriens guys that he sent elsewhere (26th street) as Obrien liked to “micromanage” or put his guys in place throughout the city.

 I disagree. I would say from the 1990′s Elmwood Park has been dominent, not the 1980′s. Cicero was the Dominent in the 1980′s and Elmwood Park was the Sub Dominent.  Let’s put it this way, whenever Carlisi went away that’s when there was a power shift which was in the early 1990′s. Since then Elmwood Park has been the Dominent crew with the Top Boss, DiFronzo and his men.  For a short while, 26th St. was the #2 with Johnny Apes.  After Apes died, Cicero was #2 briefly with Marcello. Right now, I would say there is no Sub Dominent Crew. I would say it’s Elmwood Park, then the other s are all partners with them which would be Cicero, Grand Ave., 26th St., & last but not least Chicago Heights. Also, during the 1990′s when Solano Died, whatever was left of the North side Crew became part of Elmwood Park. Example, Matassa. 

Black Angelo,  Turk Torello & Angelo LaPietra were with Fifi Bucciere. Bucciere was the original mentor of Torello, not Auippa. When Fifi died, whatever was left of the Taylor st. Crew that Bucciere controlled went to Turk Torello. It doesn’t matter that Torello lived in Cicero. That has nothing to do with anything. Torello became the Capo and had LaPietra in his Crew and the POWER CENTER of the remains of that faction shifted 16 blocks south to 26th St. Torello & LaPietra worked well with Auippa and fit into the  ‘ New Arrangement ‘.  For that matter, so did Skids Caruso. Those three guys, Torello, LaPietra and Caruso, were all originally part of the Extended Taylor St. Crew. This leads me to my last point. Giancana did not put one of his Taylor St. men in charge of all the other Crews and neither did Auippa. This would have caused way too much dissention. It just so happened that Torello developed a great partnership/relationship with the ‘New Arrangement ‘ because he was smart and knew that was the best way to survive unlike Dyno, Nicoletti & English. If the Top Boss in the Outfit had the cooperation and power to simply put one of ‘His Men’ in charge of every Crew, then Giancana would have replaced Cerone in a heartbeat. It doesn’t exactly work that way. In addition, I reviewed some of the transcipts of Cooley. He said that he met Marco in 1968. He also realized as time went by and he got to know Marco better, that Marco was  more than just a Bookmaker. However, he states that Marco came up  in the Elmwood Park Group and years later became a power within the Group. Cooley only associates Marco with Elmwood Park and never mentions Cicero.

The Don, Yes Turk and Lapietra was with Bucceri (with a I not a E). But FiFi was so high up in the Juice Rackets a lot of people essentially belonged to him (like Cerone). Turk, Joe Nick and Angelo where in deed direct with FiFi Bucceri but after he died (1972 I believe) those 3 aforementioned individuals belonged to Obrien. And you ask why didn’t Mooney replace Cerone in Elmwood Park. He didnt have to because Teets had Melrose and Elmwood Park. Mooney knew he was the real power and it wasnt Joe B or Cerone out that way. Sh*t Mooney used Joe Gags as his liason. He was the buffer for Teets and Mooney. I don’t give a f*ck what anyone or Roemer said about Cerone and that he was a boss. Never ! Cerone was a puppet up and until Obrien became # 1 or when Teets went to the can. And I’m sorry but Marco never had nothing to do with Elmwood Park until he set up shop out that way in the mid 1980s. Throughout his criminal career there is nothing that connects Marco to any crimes or “social events” involving Elmwood Park. He’s never in the company of any hardcore Elmwood Park guys or involved in burglaries (with an Andriaachi or Magnifichi (for example). However if your old enough Don and know Marco from the 1960s and or 70s … you will know he was always seen in the company with the Wild Bunch guys (especially Butch Petrocelli during the daytime usually). Ironically right around the same time Butch got killed, Tony Borse got killed, Harry and Leonard went to prison, Jimmy I went to prison… Marco was allowed to form his own crew, this would have been around 1979. But whenever Marco wanted somebody whacked in those days he would go to Turk and then the Wild Bunch would handle said hits. Socially in that era (the 1970s) Marco would hang with his crew members and Tony Borsellino. Toots Caruso also was with Marco in a way (up till 1979) because they both basically had the same boss TURK (Although Toots was 26th and Marco was Cicero/Taylor Street). And if you read Cooley’s book or go through the transcripts you’ll see that it is not until the 1980s when Cooley starts to visit Marco out at his new club (in Elmwood Park) and then he in fact meets John DiFronzo. Going to his car dealership and becoming friendly with him. There is no mention of John DiFronzo in the book during the 1970s portion of that book because Cooley did not know or meet DiFronzo until Marco got the okay to move out that way. Trust me on this. Cooley I don’t even think met Cerone. Ever ! Although Cooley did have a restaurant with Artie and could of met both of them their (but not because of Marco). But during Marco’s day to day life and operations in the Outfit from 1968 till around 1985. Cooley only knew guys Marco was close with Tony Dote, Bobby Abbinanti, Butch, Tony Borse, Harry Aleman, Bobby Salerno, Donny Scalise, Nick Boulhanis, The 26th street guys. There is no mention of any Elmwood Park guys in a majority of that book and that is not by coincidence. And Cooley says Marco is with a Westside group (lol whatever that means). And yes Marco lived in Cicero for most of that era ( I believe he built his mansion in South Barrington in 1978 or 79 or so). We don’t have to read to much into what guys lived in Cicero or Elmwood Park but will tell you he did not ever live in Elmwood Park or belong to the Bald Eagle. Your thoughts on anything I just said ?

Update on Rada:

According to sources close to the Rada family, Nicholas was
setup by the Chicago Police Department!

Black Angelo, Yeh,  I see your point. I was born in 1964, so in 1974, for example, I was only 10 years old and thought the Outfit was something from Prohibition. I hear what you’re saying but disagree with one point. Teets Battaglia had Merose Park and the west suburbs, not Elmwood Park. Like him or not, Cerone was the Capo of the Elmwood Park Crew. No question. Cerone was a direct partner with Mooney. However, like my relative used to tell me, during the reign of Mooney, Cerone had to operate as though a shotgun was pointed at his head all the time from Taylor St., which would have been Mooney, Battaglia, Bucciere etc. Cerone hated it. By the way Bucciere is spelled the way I typed it. there is an  ‘ I ‘  and an ‘ E ‘.  Check it out. Also, check out my response to your other posting below this one that I did earlier.

Why would the Police want to set up Rada? Does the Rada family think their kid is O.J. Simpson.? If anything, it would be the opposite and the Police would try to help the stupid bastard by making the badge disappear! The Rada family should think twice before making false accusations against the Chicago Police. Sorry, Joe, but I get upset when I hear complete bullshit and false accusations.

I could not agree more with your opinion.

I agree Cicero was the power until late 80′s early 90′s.  When Black Sam and Johnny had problems Rocky I. took full advantage, and if not for BJ, Rocky would have at least earned #2 to Difronzo #1 had he not been sent away. I also agree with Black Angelo on Marco D’amico coming up under Auippa/Cicero.  I think Difronzo took Marco on after Joey O was gone, why wouldn’t he lots of money threw that office.  Ape’s came up with and the Lapietra’s too, I believe.   Ape’s very old school.   

Toots and Esquire were babies who needed babysitting and Marco could and would beat the snot out of people.  Bobby Salerno was tougher than Marco and very feared on the street, make no mistake, listen to Lombardo and Mooch talking about Bobby on an old wiretap in reference to the place on 83 in Elk Grove.  Nick Boulahonis that MOTHER!  Difronzo is making it seem like the outfit is dead, it will be interesting to see what happens when him and Marco die, it may get more like NY over here, but you cannot get away with the extreme violence like in years past and in order to control politics in Cook you need to form bonds with minorities, and the Unions are on wobbly ground, so the Outfit will never be what it was, thank God.  Lastly after Ricca and Mooney Auippa was top dog and shot caller, period.  He loved Joe B.  Auippa was very calculating but was definately kill first ask questions later, and so were all his protege’s Carlisi, Ferriola, Turk, Angelo, Ape’s, Rocky I, Marcello. For being such a pyscho killer it is strange that outside of allegedly santioning the killing of Hatch, Johnny seems to have put away his gun.

Teets here. Joe, all of sudden I woke up with an extremely well-focused interest in none other than Joseph “Joey L” Lombardi, of all people. Maybe it was from a dream I had caused by reading the threads before bedtime. (The power of suggestion.) I’m not sure if you noticed but his name keeps coming up in the threads a lot lately, interestingly enough. Black Angelo himself is even including his name with the top Elmwood Parkers who were made guys on the street along with Lee Mags. Black Angelo seems to have a wealth of information about Lombardi, believe it or not. This seems like it came out of nowhere, strangely enough.
 
Joe, I don’t want to distract you from the piece you are writing on Lee, but I would love it if you could go into some detail on “Joey L” Lombardi. I’ve been asking around about him and was told by one source that Lombardi had an uncommon appreciation for rough work, unfortunately. Actually Lombardi had to smash a guy’s face with a few right hooks in the prison yard, I’m sorry to say. He used to arm other prisoners for cigarettes, and then use them to barter for other goods he wanted while incarcerate in prison. 
 
An entire piece on Lombardi would be very, very much appreciated, but I absolutely do NOT want it to take precedent over the Lee “Lee Mags” piece, if you please.
 
I can’t believe I almost forgot to add that a story was communicated to me that verifies his reputation as a extremely tough person, I’m proud to say. According to this tale, old Joey boy was enrolled in some prison self-development group, believe it or not. It was one way to get time off for good behavior (LOL). He had to give a presentation to some other inmates on “How to Say Thank You and Really Mean It.” I’m sorry to say that there was some smart alec in the audience who was whispering gibberish nonsense and making crass sound effects while Lombardi was speaking in an attempt to distract Lombardi and ruin his speaking presentation. Like a marine, Lombardi completed his speech totally, totally unfazed. He approached the clown and laid him out with one coldcock punch directly in the face. The guy didn’t die from the blow—thank god—but he spent several weeks in medical, that’s for sure, unfortunately.
 
Joe, was Joseph Lombardi “made?’
 
Keep on keepin’ on (LOL)
 
Teets

Dear Teets,
I would defer to The Don, I think is knows of Joe Lombardi a little better than I do. Thank you

The Don, Teets and Guido, First the Don yes I agree with you how the Outfit is structured and the beauty of it. Normally when they do get a franchise that is it.. Unless there is a stool pigeon. But most franchises don’t partner up on to many illegal activites but will partner up on legitimate endeavors all the time. I also agree with you and Guido that Cicero was the dominant crew in the 1980s. Black Sam was the undisputed boss (even when he moved to Florida) and there is know question about that. I was just stating Elmwood Park was building up “its arms” to use a military metaphor to be dominant once Black Sam’s crew was taken off the streets. However I agree and disagree with you about Cerone. Yes he was the Capo of Elmwood Park during Mooney’s reign as top boss. However he was nothing more than a puppet placed their and the real power was Teets or FiFi. Also Father Guido I agree with all you said in the post below this one.. Marco did in fact belong to Turk/Obrien/Cicero and when Turk died and Obrien went away he was sent to be with Johnny DiFronzo. And Bobby Salerno was very very tough. He brought Fat Mike Sarno into the fold as a youngster (Sarno and Salerno belonged to Butch Petrocelli & Joe Nick). And yes Marco would most definitely kick the ever loving sh*t out of someone if they messed with Toots Caruso and or Esquire. But nobody went the lengths of head bashing for Toots Caruso or Esquire than Bobby Abbinanti. Bobby Abbinanti would do anything for Toots Caruso. Bobby A has beaten down Chicago Cops just for sport of it. Going back to the mid 1960s or so Marco would physically harm people for Rudy Fratto also. (A 10 year old Bobby Abbinanti could of kicked the sh*t out of Rudy “seriously“, Rudy is related to Bobby A though through marriage as is Rudy and Bobby A both related to Marco through marriage.. But really through Marco’s brother Guy. Guy married a Fratto, Rudy‘s first cousin). And Teets I don’t know much about Joe Lombardi however my source knew him. He has good things to say about him. Although he did not have the legendary temper of a Joe Andriaachi. Lombardi I’m told was very tough physically. (in other words he told me don’t let the “Pretty Boy” moniker fool you). My source saw him beat a man physically in the early 1960s all the while Lombardi’s hair did not move out of place lol. My source joked to me that he thinks Joe Lombardi was the first man to ever “invest” in hair gel in Elmwood Park. I guess he had some wavy curly kind of hair that never moved. One of my other sources saw him maybe 5 years ago. Saw him in a Elmwood Park café sipping on a coffee or a espresso Lombardi I’m told was wearing tinted shades, with a monagram shirt and creased jeans with no sox’s on while wearing penny loafers. My source thought he looked like a model for the AARP lol. I imagine he has got to be in his early to mid 70s now.

Teets,  I believe Joey Lombardi is very possibly made. He is 75 years old and has done a 7 year stint in prison with Willie Messino and a 2 year stint later in 1998. Joey was 19 plus years younger than Willie. It is quite possible he got made at some point. ( He sure acted like it). I never had the nerve to ask such a blunt question. The questions asked had to be more indirect because sometimes he would get upset. He seemed to have certain ‘ rights ‘ that soldiers don’t usually have. He also was close to Johnny and absultely loved him and was very loyal to him. Johnny is only 8 years older than Joey. He also was given a solid gold watch in the past from Giancana. Mooney was generous but I don’t think he gave out solid Gold watches freely. (Maybe only to Phyllis McGuire LOL ).  I know in the case in 1998, the Feds seemed to think he very possibly was made. He was caught on tape pretty much giving orders and reprimanding some soldiers.

Teets,  Also, the story you told above is 100% accurate. That’s exactly what happened. Here is another Willie / Joey L. story to share. I hope you don’t deam about it!  Ralph Pierce was a high level Outfit Associate who operated like a made guy having a gambling franchise with some soldiers who worked under him. Pierce could never be made because he was Jewish. Anyway, a couple of his men were having trouble collecting a big gambling debt from this one guy who was an executive in a high rise building. Pierce called Joe Gags and asked him for some help. Joe Gags asked Willie & Joey to help Ralph Pierce. Willie and Joey went over to were the guy worked and asked very nicely to speak to him because they wanted to resolve the problem. When the guy went into the hallway to speak to Willie & Joey, they grabbed the guy by the throat and brought him over to an open window. They proceeded to hang the guy upside down outside the window holding him only by his ankles. They told the guy they were going to let go and let him fall 5 stories to the ground unless he made a serious attempt to pay the debt. If the debt wasn’t fully repaid within 24 hours interest they had to come back there again, they would throw him out of the fucking window with no questions asked. The guy repaid the debt within 24 hours to Ralph Pierce. Ralph called Joe Gags and was very appreciative. He offered to pay Willie & Joey some money but they refused. From that point forward, Elmwood Park Crew had a great political ally in Ralph Pierce who had tremendous political connections. 

Yeah, you’ve answered a lot of my questions. Thank you. 

I think I remember hearing you say you don’t talk to your relative anymore? Is that a temporary thing, or do you think you’ll be able to repair your relationship?

Horsey,  Do not know at this point.  Did you ever send Joe your email? He will  honor your request. I wouldn’t worry about it. Polk St. seems to have  been a very popular street in Chicago!

Black Angelo & Father Guido,  Thanks for the clarification of Marco’s roots. The only question would be when did Marco get made. Either by Auippa ( Cicero) or in the late 1980′s by Johnny ( Elmwood Park ). Probably earlier by Auippa, so I would tend to agree with Black Angelo. Torello, both LaPietra’s & Johnny Apes were all strong 26th St. men and old school. I agree completely.

The Don and Father Guido, I’m gonna respond at the top of the page because it seems the threads get narrower and narrower as the replies mount up. One of my sources (who is very good) told me Marco got made in or around when Tony Borsellino got out of prison. (Borse was killing guys for the Outfit before 1965 when he went away to prison and was still not Made). So this would have been after 1973 or around that time. Turk Torello I’m told sponsored them both. Turk definatly took care of Taylor Street paesan Tony Borse when he got out in 73. Joey Lombardo also whistled in Tony Spilotro from Vegas to become made on that day also I’m told. Tony I’m told was NOT a MADE guy when he originally went out to Vegas. So in other words Tony Spilotro defiantly knew Marco was a made guy. Understand there is not any stool pigeons from the 1960s or 70s that have given a detailed making ceremony like Nick Calabrese did for the infamous 1983 one (Nick C was physically present). I cant even tell you when Joey Lombardo, Johnny DiFronzo, Peter DiFronzo or Joe Andriacchi got made. You can use an educated guess on a lot of these guys (I know Lumpy was MADE before them all). My source did tell me Andriaachi did not get made before he went to prison in Michigan (he was released in 1971). If Cerone (personally) sponsored Andriacchi to become a made guy it would have had to been in 1974 or after. Because Cerone was away in prison till 74 (and Joe Gags died in 71). So Marco may have been made before Andriacchi. My source says their where at least 3 to 4 ceremonies in the 1970s. I believe Johnny DiFronzo was made before Cerone went to the can in 1970 (around 1969). I have no idea when Peter DiFronzo was made (more than likely the 1970s sometime). As I stated Lumpy was made before all of those Elmwood Park guys though I’m told (around 1965). Eboli and Centracchio I’m told where both Made on the same day in the late 1970s. All of Black Sam’s guys where MADE in the 1980s. My dead source who was a sleeper told me Black Sam was MADE in 1955. He was Obriens personal killer in the late 40s and 50s. Anyhow (according to my source) Marco was a made guy in or around the early to mid 70s. Also I’ve heard Stool Pigeon Frank Cullotta claims Marco was definatly MADE in the 1970s and he has told the Feds this also. I imagine Tony may have told him, before Cullotta flipped in 1981. Your thoughts ?

Supposedly Lombardo & Spilotro made their bones on the same hit in 1963. Someone one Lake Shore Drive.

Tony, Lombardo supposedly made his bones from this. The guy that was whacked on Lake Shore Drive was Manny Skar and it was 1965 and Spilotro was not present. Lombardo sponsored Spilotro in the 1970s to be Made. Spilortro like Calabrese Sr had alot of guys under their belt before being MADE.

Black Angelo,  Most of what you said makes sense. Let me clarify one thing very clearly that was explained to me which I believe you, Black Angelo, will appreciate. When a soldier, who works for a made guy, is involved in a murder, he is not automatically made right after the deed. He is now IN LINE to be made and that may take some time based upon various reasons. When he actually does become made, the ceremony may be small or it may be fairly large in the number of men present. It is obviously not publicly broadcasted. The smart Feds, not Roemer, know a lot about the Outfit and the way it is structured. They know that in Chicago, a made guy is a big fucking deal, unlike New York. The Made guys in Chicago are equal to the Captains in the New York Families. The Feds in particular go after made guys. I heard this right from the horse’s mouth about what I’m telling you.  It makes sense that Marco got made sometime in the 1970′s by Auippa. I do not agree with one thing your source told you and maybe you misunderstood him. In 1971, when Tony Spilotro went to Las Vegas, He was definitely and officially made and had been IN LINE for awhile. His reward was to be the muscle for Chicago with his crew of men in Las Vegas. He had permission to put money out on the street. Some of the money he put out came from his Capo, Lombardo. I stand strong on this opinion. Frank Cullotta was a soldier in Spilotro’s franchise. I have not read his book, but I have heard him talk about certain things. Even though he is an informant and not a made guy, if he said marco was made during the 1970′s, I would probably take that to the bank. Cullotta woul have no reason to lie about it. Tony had a lot of respect for Marco. After all, they are techically both Grand Ave. Men.

The Don, That is funny you say that about Spilotro being Made before he was sent out to Vegas. Because my other source (who is now dead) told me essentially verbatim what you said. When Tony got MADE his reward was Vegas and when Marco got MADE his reward was Taylor Street or one of the SACs Survivor (the most infamous of the SACs in Lil Italy was the Survivor). Marco went to Taylor in 1969/70 (coming from Cicero Extended). Tony went out to Vegas in 1971 (coming from Grand Ave Ext). However I leaned on my source I talk to currently about Marco being MADE in or around 1973. He feels Spilotro was not MADE when he went out to Vegas but to watch over Lefty and the casino skim and be his muscle. Angelo Bastone was the only Made guy over Tony i’m told. Angelo groomed Tony for a 2 year period. Around 1973.. Lombardo whistled him in back to Chicago and Tony was MADE and told him to take some Grand Ave guys. Tony was allowed to form his own crew and that is when Cullotta, Herbie and all the boys went to Vegas full time. A lot of Chicago guys migrated out to Vegas in around 1974- 76. According to Federal Documents Spilotro formed a crew in 1976. Also remember Don … Frank Calabrese was this/close from being the Vegas guy on behalf of the Outfit in 1971 (and he did not get MADE till 83). Either way Tony knew Marco was a SOMEBODY. But I do believe they where MADE together in 1970 or 74. Cullotta by the way was one of 7 individuals who was going to testify against Marco or prove that he was defiantly a MADE guy. This would have been at Marcos 1995 sentencing hearing. But I do agree with most of what you said. Especially about being MADE in Chicago is a very big fucking deal and being IN LINE to become Made (well stated).

Black Angelo, Thank you for the compliment. After all, I used to ask a lot of questions, unlike my other relatives, so I learned how to ask the questions, sometimes more than once, in a non direct way, and as a result I learned a lot about something that very few people really understand. I have a question. Did Nick Calabrese say that he and Frank got made together at the same time in 1983? It seems like Frank got made sooner and was first among equals in his partnership with Nick in running their franchise. So, in 1983, Auippa & Cerone were the #1 & #2 Bosses in the Outfit. Marcello was made into Auippa’s extended Cicero Group with Carlisi being his sponser. Angelo La Pietra sponsored Nick Calabrese into the 26th St. Group, what did Cerone do in 1983 besides go play golf? Cerone was a strange guy. He never was really for any of his men. It’s too bad Ricca wouldn’t allow Mooney to kill Cerone. The Elmwood Park Group would have been better with Joe Gags as the Capo. All the Taylor St. men liked and respected Joe Gags.

I did, actually but haven’t heard back from him yet. I withheld some of the details because I’m still not 100% percent sure how I feel about it. 

I won’t be surprised if he’s not familiar with some of the names because one branch of the family was better established out in NYC, and the other branch was more active in Chicago during the first half of the 20th century and on into the 60′s early 70′s. 

Don and Black etc, maybe Joe’s book will tell us why we are wrong about Mover.  Marco has had very powerful freinds through the years. I am interested in Carlisi, other than vague references to what a mean SOB he was, I don’t know much about Black Sam.  Any stories about Black Sam would be appreciated.  He was the kind of guy like Joey O that no one wanted to even mention his name out of fear, very fierce reputation.

They were made at the same ceremony, along with Marcello, Chiaramonti, and Zizzo. Conflicting accounts put Matassa there, too, though it’s also said he was made in the late 80′s with Solly at the Como Inn.

Frank Sr. had been a rackets guy well before Nick–in fact, he brought Nick into the picture. But if you believe trial testimony and what’s been written about the 26th Street Crew. Nick was more well-liked than his brother by almost everyone in the Outfit. That said, Nick never had a crew of his own and was always second fiddle in his brother’s juice operation. Ronnie Jarrett made more money in the Outfit than Nick, a made guy.

Nick probably would have never flipped if his brother hadn’t been such a cruel, slave-driver of a boss. He says he’s sorry for the violence he perpetrated, and maybe he is, but the main reason he flipped is because Frank treated everyone under him like sh*t under his shoes.

Nick said that the day of the Spilotro murders, after the deed was done, he had coffee with some of the guys. Jimmy Lapietra asked him how much Frank Sr. was paying him. Nick replied $3,000 per month. LaPietra couldn’t believe it, and suggested that his brother should double it. A lot of the Chinatown guys thought Nick was way underpaid and poorly treated by his brother.

Louie The Mooch once said in my presence, “A beefer is born a beefer and a whore is born a whore.”

Maybe there’s something to that. Nick C. seems like an unlikely gangster. He went from being a legitimate, all-around good guy to being a gangster over night. When the feds had him for murder, he flipped. Maybe the writing  was on the wall from very beginning. 

Joe, did you get my email?

Dear Guido, I dont think a book is going to clear up anything. Joe Fosco knows alot about the Outfit. However I disagree with him on Marco. He says Marco is “not Made”, He also said Magnifichi is Made (lol) and that Marco belonged to Cerone (not true at all)… Nothing is going to convince me otherwise on any of that. Especially not some book. Their has been some good books on the Outfit (and i’m not talking about Roemers bullshit opinonated book even though he was a FBI agent with soucrces), I would say one of the most credible Outfit books would of been Cooley’s When Corruption Was King. Cooley exaggerated alot about how tough he was and all his “sweethearts”. He and Hillel Liven also said Joe B was the Top Boss (he never was) but i’ll give him credit on one big thing (especially when writing a book).. Alot of what he said I know first hand to be true (even his anecdotal stories) because I as well as others were physically their and alot of what he said was collaborated via his Wire Taps. If he didnt have those “wire taps” he wouldnt of been as credible. For Instance I wouldnt of believed in a million years Johnny DiFronzo would of cleared his debts or that he would even has access to him or Marco like he did. But it was true. And I do know for a fact he helped out Johnny’s boy in a situation he had gotten himself in (he doesnt mention it in the book but it was a DUI and a bar fight.. he just says he didn’t send Johnny a bill). This book is not heavily researched but then again Cooley really didn’t have to. There are a couple of other Outfit books that a very well researched. If you want a credible book I would go with Stoole Pigeon Cooley’s. If you want well researched with heavy documentation I would go with the Mad Sam one on Juice Rackets.

The Don, Yes Nick was MADE on the same day as his brother (according to him). Sleeper (at the time) Al Tornabene officiated it with Obrien being their at the head of the table. Johnny DiFronzo was present also but just sat their with his arms crossed (he brought no one… after all who was he gonna really bring from Elmwood Park in 1983 who wasnt already Made lol). And Cerone in my mind played a purpose and a good one for Mooney and Joe Gags. In that as long as their was a Alcoholic idiot running his mouth and playing golf the heat would be taken off the behind the scenes guy. Cerone was a puppet up until he was released in 1974. That is why Cerone got indicted in the gambling case in 1970 (and Joe Gags did not). I know for a fact (via my dead source) Obrien was furious he got indicted in the Casino skimming case. They didnt have nothing on him. He felt Cerone should take alot of the blame for getting caught on wire (along with Kansas City guy). I believe around 1983/84 Obrien started doing alot of things to spite Cerone like sending a full Taylor Street crew out his way (Marco’s crew) lol. The only reason Obrien didnt kill him is because he wanted to use him as a pawn in his appeal.

That threat assessment list regarding Nick Calabrese’s safety was said to be a list of current “made” members of the Chicago Outfit , both in prison and not (with inclusion of The German and Harry Aleman who are understood to not be made, obviously.) It included both Marco D’Amico and Magnafichi. (It also included a few wild cards from Cicero and Bridgeport / Chinatown who I wouldn’t have guessed were made.) 

It did not include Sol C.

Black Angelo,  Did Cooley say in his book that Ferriola was the Top Boss in 1986?  If he did, then he loses tremendous credibility. Everybody thinks that you Have to be a Capo before becoming the Top Boss. Not true. Carlisi was the personal Underboss in the extended Cicero crew to Auippa. He then became the Top Boss in 1986. Ferriola remained as the Capo within the extended Crew of the Top Boss.  Marcello then became the Personal Underboss to Carlisi.  What does Cooley say about that situation?

Horsey,  Where is that list located?

The Don, here is the list, but keep in mind that it is old now. 

Also, it is a list of people believed to pose a threat to Nick Calabrese once it became publicly known that he was cooperating. I can’t remember where I read that it was also considered by some (in law enforcement and the media) to be a list of current “made” guys, The German, Aleman, and Hansen notwithstanding. Obviously, there are more made guys at this point, and there are probably some names that were left off of the list at the time it was made:http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wls/documents/threat%20assessment.pdf

He does not mention him as a top boss.. He is accurate in mentioning Joe Nick though… when Harry Aleman went through him to have Butch whacked. And Cooley still has the wiretaps to back up alot of what he said so if he was wrong about JB or Joe Nick he was probably just going along with what Roemer or Corbitt said in their books. If he did not have wiretaps to collaborate what he said and then he said some shit like that then he would most definatly loose his credibilty. He calls JohnDiFronzo a CEO lol. But Corbitt in his bok did say Mooney was the boss and not some front for Joe B. By the way I already posted that “threat assesment” on another thread. I believe the “John DiFronzo and Jasper Campise” thread. Marco is on their n Milan as is Frank Calabrese Sr. and James Marcello.

The first part of the list is only partial of course. Nick testified there were about 60 or so active made guys at any given time. That corresponds to what I have always believed. The first part of the list only has one name that is questionable about being a made man, Dino Marino. I would say a soldier who possibly is  ” in line ” to be made. I’m not sure if both Spanos are made, maybe just one of them. The second part of the list has DiFronzo in it and Marcello along with some Associates. In reality, that list could have been a lot longer and Nick knows it. Solly C. is definitely made in the Cicero  Group. Nick just left him off the list along with a lot of other men. Also, there’s Marco right up near the Top. I truly believe Marco is a very strong made man and is probably a Capo right now in 2011. It would take a lot to convince me otherwise.

Don, I think a while ago you wrote that Mickey M. was made because James insisted on it, and that James had the kind of clout within the Outfit that allowed for such a request to be fulfilled. Do you have any idea when Mickey would have been made? I am also wondering who would have conducted such a ceremony at the time, presuming DiFronzo would have never–in a million years–put himself in such a position, as he tries to stay as out-of-the-picture, as humanly possible.

I’m told Marco is a boss. Tony Dote is a MadeGuy and Capo of Elmwood Park and controls all Gambling in Chicago. He is direct with Marco. Mickey Marcello may have been made in the 1989-94 era (when Jimmy I was allegedly made.. Jimmy I got out in 90. Rocky would of purposed him for membership but was in the MCC) according to Joe Fosco Jimmy Lappers (LaPietra) nominated Jimmy I for membership. Sometime after 1990.

I too believe Tony Dote is a serious guy. I believe Carl is retired and wants to run his restaurant and live in the old neighborhood in peace. 

Black Angelo, how about the other Enterprise guys that Tony went down with in the 90′s? Are any of them still around to a significant extent? Who is this Moe guy? If he is who I think he is, then he’s been around for a while.

I believe, if memory serves me correctly, that Mickey was made, according to my relative, in the early 1990′s sometime before Carlisi & Marcello went away. Marcello sponsored him and Carlisi made him. After all, they needed someone close to them to look after things on the street while they were in prison, in particular, Jimmy’ s interests. Remember, Carlisi, Marcello, Zizzo, The Hatch & Frank (Something, I’m sorry I forgot his last name,) all went away. 

Horsey, I’m gonna talk to somebody I’ll get back to you in about 4 to 5 hrs. But Moe is a big guy (very strong) he was Marco’s #1 gopher in 2006 around that time. And yes Carl Dote wants to be left alone lol, but he does what Marco tells him inasmuch.

Black Angelo, Father Guido & Horsey, Upon review of all presented evidence about Marco and also commen sense, there is only one logical answer as to why Joe has stated that Marco is not made. Mike Magnaficchi is the one person telling Joe That Marco is not made. I guarentee you Willie never told Joe that Marco wasn’t made because that was never discussed years ago. Mike Magnaficchi has an ulterior motive. I believe Michael likes Marco very much and has refused to talk about him in his three interviews. The only logical reason for not wanting to discuss Marco and for telling Joe Fosco that Marco is not made is that Michael is protecting Marco. Joe is repeating what Magnaficchi is telling him. It would be like me repeating something my relative told me in the past that may not have been exactly true but was told to protect someone he liked. That doesn’t make me a liar. What Michael magnaficchi tells Joe may not be completely honest because he knows it will be repeated on the threads for anyone to read. With no disrespect to anyone, that is my opinion. There is no other logical explanation. Black Angelo, your thoughts?

Are you thinking of Valerio? “Gill” Valerio?

No, Valerio was a soldier or a 25% street agent that worked for them/or with them. The guy I’m thinking of was named Frank Bonaventura or close to that spelling. I believe he could have been a made guy with them.

I’m starting to believe he is made, for different reasons, though I don’t necessarily believe that MM deliberately mislead JF. 

The feds would have nothing to gain by falsely designating him as a made member of the Outfit, even from a public relations standpoint. (The average citizen doesn’t care what their status is in the organization, so long as they’re taken off the street.)

Joe Nick never served any higher than a capo.

Louie The Mooch once said in my presence, “A beefer is born a beefer and a whore is born a whore.”

Joe,  I know. I’ve said it many many many times. Joe Ferriola never was higher than the Capo within the extended Cicero group. Maybe I mentioned a word that made you misunderstand me. If I did, I apologize. In fact, that’s how I form my opinion about anyone talking about the Outfit. The minute they start talking about Joe Ferriola being the Top Boss, I am completely disinterested. I hope I made myself clear to you. Thanks.

And another catch is when someone refers to Joe B as Tony Accardo, right?

Sorry Joe,  I don’t follow you. Joe B or Joe Batters is Accardo.

Black: Once again I have to agree with you. It’s been a while since I read Cooley’s book. I loaned it out and never asked for it back. Your post brought something to light for me. Cooley was missing “attention/recognition” his whole life. Think about it.  Look at his life story in the book & to this day. He has been looking for that from beginning to end. He did “Drama” up some stuff to put himself in the brighter life “As a wrestler” etc.  If I recall he felt he could take out Marco one on one in a physical battle. But I had to believe a lot of the stuff he wrote.
p.s. I remember laughing at the stories about his karate guy buddy “the count” or something.

So Jimmy I isn’t broke any more?

Joe,  I don’t follow you. Is there a problem? Please explain. Thanks.

I agree Don and Horsey on both of your assessments about why Marco is MADE. But i’m NOT shocked Mike Magnifichi did what he did to insulate Marco. That is Outfit Deceptive Practices 101… They’ve been pullin that bull shit since the Frank Nitti Era. Trying to deceive the general public. I guess I cant blame them. Anyhow my source says Marco is most definatly a MadeGuy but what we should be talking about is how long he has been Top Boss. It wouldn’t be totally out of the whelm of things that Tony Dote was Made in the 1989 – 94 time span. When the Sharon Patrick’s car was bombed the FBI put together a list of MadeGuys (through their own stoole pigeon sources) that should be subpoenaed before the grand jury. The list was as follows: John DiFronzo, Marco Damico, Sam Carlisi, James Marcello, Anthony Zizzo, Joe Andriacchi, Frank Calabrese, and Tony Dote. I asked my source maybe Dote was made before he went to prison in 1996 and given a promotion when he got out in 2007. And he said irregardless of the fact Tony Dote is a Made Guy , heads the Elmwood Park Crew and controls all gambling in Chicago. He is in a postion to help a ‘down and out’ Mike Magnifichi if he wanted to. Heres a list of guys I’m told where Made in the last couple of years (that my source knows about): Bobby Abbinanti, MOE, Francis ‘Pat’ Mazza and some card cheat and professional poker player named Ed Corrado. The latter has belonged to Marco for some 40 years. He once cheated Marco in a poker game (back in 1970 or so) for some 10 grand and Marco found out he was a cheat and beat the living fuck out of him. Then he pulled the same shit with Bob Cooley and Marco smashed his face in again. (this is documented in Cooley’s book). Anyhow Marco armed him and put him out on the streets to hustle high rollers.. The guy is so good at what he does he is now a professional poker player on the circuit. I’m told Marco and Johnny DiFronzo have made millions just off this guy alone. Anyhow this guy lives in Naples, Florida now and would always see Solly DeLaurentis (within the last couple of years) and would tell him all he has ever wanted to be was a MadeGuy in the Outfit (before he died) and if Solly would talk to Marco and see if he would sponsor him for membership. If Marco was not in Marco Island or Naples vacationing.. Solly or Moe would pick up his monthly royalties from this Corrado fella. Anyways Marco purportedly got him Made. This guy is like 78/79 years old. He’s really not a criminal (besides gambling), but just a really really good poker player and card cheat (at all card games). So he basically was like Marcos sleeper for the past 40 years. Marco also got Bobby Abbinanti a restaurant out in River Grove called My Way. I’m told Bobby A is very happy with his new life and new income but will still kill for Marco at the drop of a hat.

Michael is not as relevant as you would think on my assessment of Marco’s status. As you would recall, my list of sources, which was somewhat hinted to in the list indicated in my article on Dyno, supports this. I will go as far as to say that one of my multiple sources regarding Marco’s status was the now late Willie Messino. As for Michael’s wish to somewhat protect Marco, I would indicate that he cares about someone else who is very much alive much more than Marco and judging by some of the incriminating things he has taught me about this person, I know that your opinion is overdone. Thank you.
One thing that I will point out about Marco (pardon me for not interjecting every time I disagree with my viewers), I learned from a number of my sources over the years, Marco belonged to Lee after Lee was made capo (I stress that Michael’s perspective on this matter is not the basis of my findings). Reread the list of contacts indicated in my article on Dyno.

I am merely pointing out that people who truly knew Mr. Accardo called him or referred to him as Joe. Therefore, when you hear someone say, “I knew Tony Accardo,” unless they are referring to Joe’s son, it would be obvious that it is not true because everyone that genuinely knew Accardo called him Joe.

Joe,  I agree with you. Anyone who did know Accardo called him simply Joe. I think you got a little upset with Black Angelo & me for questioning Michael’s motives. I apologize and absolutely respect you. It’s just hard to believe Marco was not  made previously and even more hard to believe he is not at least made now in 2011. Please accept my apology if it upset you. I just couldn’t think of any other logical reason. It was no reflection on you ar all.

My opinion is overdone. Whatin the hell does that mean ? I’ve stated facts or plain common sense on how the Outfit works why Marco never belonged to Cerone or Elmwood Park (till the mid 1980s).. And why he is MADE. (I wish Tony Spilotro was still alive). And I told you a while ago on another thread I dont care if President Obama or Pope John Paul II (who is deceased) told you Marco was not made.. Not buying it. You even laughed about the thought of Tony Dote being made. Come on now ! I see your trying to play the Willie Messino card.. hmm. And who did Lee Magnifichi belong to Marco’s man Johnny DiFronzo. I dont even know how that would come up in conversation with Willie about who was made and what not. Seems odd, no offense.

I wish Turk Torello was still alive is what i meant to say also (along with Tony Spilotro).. Turk is who Marco belonged to from mid 1960s till 1979. Obrien was concerned about Marco getting wasted at the disco’s and what not (the greedy bastard didnt want anything happening to his gold mine aka Marco), but he made so much money for Turk and Obrien they didnt give a fuck what Marco was doing. Marco is alot more clever (even in his drunken state) than your giving him credit for. It took a fluke to even get him in prison if you ask me. And ex FBI agent Jim Wagner even quoted “Marco trusted very few, conversed with few, passed money with very few. He was long acquainted with Bob Cooley… and that is how we got him..” fluke shit ! Entrapment !

Joe,  According to you, who did Marco belong to before Lee? Lee was made Capo in 1986 in the Extended Elmwood Park Group. Capos have  made guys under them as supervisors. Are you saying that Marco belonged to Lee as a non made man and wouldn’t get made because of alchohol abuse? I’m just trying to understand your reasoning. That is a fair question.

Dear The Don,
Yes, Marco belonged to Lee as a nonmade guy. Alcohol abuse was a part of it, but there were other issues that I will get into in my book. I am sorry.
As you would recall, it came out in the threads that Marco belonged to a number of different crews and gangsters over the years. If correct, this would support that he was not a made guy in those years. He was an earner that was continually dragged around by new power. When the power pulled him into the Aiuppa/Cerone faction, under Lee, he was up against Jack Cerone and Joe Andriacchi, which is why he was not made then. Marco was used his entire life and he knows it. That might be part of the reason he has been an alcoholic for so many years. He has a large fan base because many people, mostly nonOutfit people, but groupies who are unaware of how things really work, view him as a great guy. The perception of Marco being a made guy has taken on the character of a made guy. The fact that Johnny would meet with him often in public should be proof that Marco is not made. Marco is a gambler today as much as he was 50-years ago. His vice is his vice. He used to bet his entire take for the season on the super bowl. Most of the time he won. He is a gambler. He is a lucky gambler. He is wealthy. I believe that he is a silent backer to Tony Dote. Dote has wanted to be the next Al Capone since he was old enough to masturbate on the floor of his mothers bathroom. Ask me if Cicero could have made Tony Dote in the last couple of years, my answer is yes. Cicero offered to ‘make’ Marco a couple of years ago. He turned it down. Why be a made guy in 2011? It does not mean as much in today’s Outfit world as it did in earlier years. Why would Marco want to (now) officially join an organization that cost him so many years in prison?
Willie told me that he, Johnny D and Black Sam would have taken Marco’s office away from him, giving it to someone else if it were not for the fact that Marco belonged to Lee. The main reason Johnny has warmed up to Marco in recent years pertains to his gratefulness that he did his time and kept his mouth shut. If Marco explained to the government where he kicked a piece of his action in the 70s and 80s, Johnny would have been in prison. Therefore, I contend that Johnny now likes Marco enough to refrain from offering him an incriminating position of being made into a criminal empire after all the years he spent in prison.
Cicero does not have any worthy gangsters and are hungry for a guy like Marco. I understand why Cicero wanted to make Marco. Cicero would make a bouncer at a nightclub that moved to Chicago from LA last year. Furthermore, I think it was a slap in Marco’s face that Cicero (the new Cicero) offered to ‘make’ him, instead of a more seasoned and respected faction. Again, the more seasoned and respectable faction, Johnny DiFronzo’s faction, in the 2000s, would not further injure a man that already spent many years in prison by inducting him into a major criminal empire as a reward for serving prison time. Sure, bosses in the old Outfit would have done so, but not the boss who stands around in parking lots chewing the rag with fellows like Chuck Goudie and Dane Placko.
Again, Marco has the respect of being a made guy. The perception that he is made has allowed him the pleasure of being treated like a king by (mostly nonOutfit) people, while he enjoys the entertainment over a glass of alcohol.
In the past, some viewers attributed their understanding that Marco is made because his wife and Jack Cerone’s wife (the lawyer) are fiends. I have to ask, how dumb does that sound?
Another thing, Marco never killed anyone.

Dear The Don,
Trying to understand crazy people is quite difficult, such as Outfit members. Whether you want to admit it, or not, someone who dedicates his or her life to crime is crazy in my book.
I will give you two interesting things to think about. Willie Messino was made in 1949, he told me himself. The Outfit used him for his services most of his life. He would have died broke if he did not get lucky the last 15-years of his life. And, I would like to stress that his luck was not that good.
Marco was never made, but he was used for his services for most of his life. He is very wealthy and has been for most of his life, again, but he was never made.
Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason to the Outfits methods. The grass is always greener on the other side. At one time, Willie would have traded his badge for Marco’s money. At one time Marco would have traded a large portion of money for Willie’s badge (badge meaning his status as being made). I ask you, who is better off? The guy that was made and poor most of his life, or the guy that was wealthy and not made?
This explains the perception thing. How could Marco be wealthier and a better earner than Willie and not be made?

 If I had known that all of this Marco discussion was going to arise, I would have asked my relative more questions about his true stature. His name came up a few times and all that was mentioned was that he was a great earner in Bookmaking and that Johnny liked him a lot. So, in conclusion with your opinion, Marco is a High Level Associate who dealt directly with Bosses ( includes Capos ) like some other high level associates in the past who were non Italian and could never be made because of it. Marco is obviously Italian, but his technicalilty for not not being made was alchohol abuse and maybe a couple other reasons that you’ll state in your book. You made one other interesting point. You said Marco has never killed anyone. Very interesting. Black Angelo is not going to be happy with your remarks. 

Mickey Marcello was not a willing witness–he didn’t flip and wasn’t that much of a help to the prosecution.

Right. He is. Again, no one called him Tony. No one. If you hear someone say, “I knew Tony Accardo,” its a dead give away that it is a lie. If true, it would be, “I knew Joe B.”

A rule of thumb:
If someone writes a history book about the Outfit and politics in Chicago, quickly turn to the index and look for the name Romie Nappi. If Nappi’s name does not appear, put the book down, its not worth your time. I love the way Cooley made press releases a couple of years ago when Blago was indicted, mentioning illicit dealing that the two took part in together many years back. However, he failed to include any of it in his book a couple of years earlier. Note: Blago was Gov when Cooley’s b.s. book came out.

Dear Black,
When you have thousands of conversations wit hone man day after day, lots of things come up once or twice.

I cite gangsters as my sources, you cite FBI agents and media reports. While you wish dead gangsters could come back to life, I wisher their victims can.

Marco belonged to Lee before Lee was made capo and after.

Please make up with your relative and ask him his opinion on Marco’s status. And, yes, Johnny loved the money Marco brought in, which is what your relative meant when he told you the “Johnny liked him a lot.” Again, make up with your relative to triple confirm what i am saying. Thank you.

So, are you saying he was sort of raped by the prosecution?

I still laugh at the thought of Tiny Dote being made. Jack (the lawyer), Michael and I had dinner with Tony roughly 10-years ago. In my opinion, he was subservient to Michael. He was looking for money, which is why Jack was around. Jack did not give him a dime. Apparently, Marco turned out to be the bankroller.
Again, I still laugh at the idea of Tony being made, but I am willing to concede to the idea the idea that Cicero could have made him recently. As I once said, they would ‘make’ a bouncer from LA who lived here for a year.
If it seems odd that I had conversations with Willie, you have overlooked a great deal.

Tornebene was Cicero’s defacto Consigliere under J Marcello, in other words Toots, Mickey went to Al for advise, as Al has been around a long time back to Turk and maybe Toots father.  After Carlisi 26th and “Melrose Park” merged to one crew under Jimmy M.  his Lt. Toots and Mickey advised by Al. in my opinion.  So Al made Mickey in my opinion.

Dear Black,
Please show me where I supposedly clearly credited Michael as being my source (or exclusive source) on matters related to Marco.

Hi everyone, I have an announcement, someone has come into my site, as I obeserved my stats as; ” Joe Fosco gets arrested at Rivers Casino!”  It’s stat origin is from; River Forest, Illinois! In my opinion; I feel it’s the ex D.r Giachino running around and totally T’d off!  Why? Because, I can finger one of Joe Messino’s soldiers; thus, bringing Giachino down for the murders that he has hired!!!  Joe  Fsoco, please, see your email for your copy and paste of this message, I was sent!!!!  SQE

Good point!

Okay so many things I’m going to dissect here. So let me get this straight Marco has always belonged to Lee Magnifichi (lol) no offense Joe (you know I respect your Outfit knowledge 90 % of the time) but that is utter bullshit my friend. And Marco was used… If anything he used them (last I checked Marco survived 5 decades in a terrorist and brutal organization while becoming wealthy all the while.. Sure their was occupational hazzard along the way but it “is what it is” as Solly would say). Anyhow so when Marco belonged to “Lee” .. Mr Magnifichi let Marco operate out of the Survivors Club all those years in the 70s and also reside in Cicero. It seems a lil odd that Marco hung around socially and “professionally” with a lot of Cicero / Taylor Steet Extended guys (meaning Wild Bunch) for all those years but belonged to Elmwood Park (Cerone/or Lee) that is utter Bullshit. Marco “Trust Me” belonged to Turk Torello/Obrien. And they where going to take Marco’s office in the 1980s (LOL).. How do you think this man got the Elmwood Park Social Club in the 80s ??? Lee had nothing to do with that my friend ! I’m told Lee was a puppet placed by Johnny DiFronzo. Marco was the real power. I cant believe you asked who Marco has ever killed ? Do you know how much money he made for Obrien, Turk, Johnny D !?!? And nobody on the streets would accuse Marco of being some “candy ass”. Who did Donald Angelini ever kill ? He was Made. And who has Joe Andriacchi or Lee Magnifichi ever killed ? By the way Joe I have a source equal to your Willie Messino. And Cooley’s book was over all accurate because 80 % of it can be collaborated. I think he’s trying to use his credibility off that 80% & and trying to parlay it into people believing everything he says like with Gov. Blago being a bookie lol (kind of like YOU with this Marco thing, your trying to parlay your credibility). Anyhow I asked my source why Tony Spilotro would of backed down to Cooley when Cooley named dropped Marco. And he said simple… Tony knew Marco was a MadeGuy and had already claimed the independent Cooley. He said if Marco was not made.. Tony Spilotro would of smacked or beat the ever loving fuck out of Cooley. Then if push came to shove… he would of won the sit down with Marco over the independent. Because Tony was a Made Guy (obviously he knew Marco’s status also or had this bazaar tremendous respect for a non made guy)… Frank Cullotta would collaborate this (Marco being MADE). And you had dinner with Tony Dote “roughly 10 years ago” and on top of that he was subservient to Michael Magnifichi ? Huh ! (By the way when did Michael get made ? And who in the fuck has he ever killed ?) Back to Tony Dote. Tony got locked up in 1996 and didn’t see the streets till 2007. So this dinner must have been at Pekin or something. And he wouldn’t in a million years had dinner with a blabber mouth drunk organized crime ‘associate’ like Magnifichi while on parole. Don’t make since. And every Outfit guy was a wannabe at one point in their life (I can guarantee you that). Tony was in Marcos crew by the time he was 27 y.o. And Johnny DiFronzo was seen in public many times with Marco before he went away in 1994 and after he got out in 2005. Perception is reality and Johnny is smart enough to understand that. He knows the FBI and anyone who could lock him away (meaning the police/FEDS).. They all know Marco is Made. So its not like Johnny is thinking to himself “oh boy lets see here Marco is really not made so its okay for me to be seen in public with him.. And I‘ll explain this to the FEDS at a later date If they apprehend me”.. give me a break. I don’t think Johnny minds being seen in public with a Willie Messino or Marco D’amico. By the way Joe Andriacchi has been seen numerous times in public with a diabolical killer one Albie Vena. Oh so that must mean Albie is not made huh ? And Joe Fosco you know how careful Andriaachi is in public. To be seen with Centracchio at Aunt Sarah’s is one thing. To be seen with serial killer Albie Vena out in the open at Rosebuds on Taylor over 50 times is friggin nuts ! There is overwhelming evidence Marco is MADE and overwhelming evidence he did not belong to Elmwood Park till the mid 80s. The Lackey LOL !!!!!! Who did he ever kill…

Father Guido,  I agree with you and it’s possible about Al being involved making Mickey. I strongly disagree with when you say Cicero, 26th & Melrose all merged into one crew. The  ExtendedCicero Crew might have included activity in Melrose, but 26th street is and always has been a seperate distinct crew which is presently headed by Toots Caruso. Sure, they are partnered with Cicero, but that’s the way the Oufit has always worked. The one Crew from the recent past that merged was North Side Rush St. What was left of that is now Elmwood Park. 

Joe, when you said that Michael,  ”cares about someone else who is very much alive much more than Marco and judging by some of the incriminating things he has taught me about this person,” what do you mean? Are you saying that there’s a made member of the Outfit that Michael cares a great deal about, who he might actually protect in the same way he has been accused of protecting Marco?

Horsey, He’s talking about Andriacchi or Solly D

I figured Andriacchi. I remember Michael didn’t want to talk about Solly D in the Interview.

Joe: I believe your answers are genuine, no bullshit straight to the point. I can’t wait for this book.
You once said Marco is probably running one of the biggest bookmaking offices in Chicago today. If he is not made, and is not a pledged member of any crew, is it fair to say he operating independently on the street. Untouched by other Outfit crews because of his relationship with DiFronzo?

Dom, According to Joe, Marco is a high level Associate who operates similar to a made guy but doesn’t have all the rights and privileges. However, sometimes this is even a better position. It depends upon WITH WHOM you are partnered.  Some made guys in the Elmwood Park Crew under Jack, the Cheapskate, would have probably traded places with a High Level AssocIate. To answer your question, Marco is untouchable because he is partnered with DiFronzo.

Joe,  I don’t think Marco always belonged to Lee. I believe he was passed around a little like we’ve said on the other threads. Then, at some point, and I don’t know exactly when, he belonged to Lee.

Thanks for the response, Don. I read your comment below after I posted my comment.

Joe, I heard the same thing for years. Except my relative added that it starts in the womb!

Joe,  When is that article on Mooney coming out? Talking about the Outfit in 2011 and debating about Marco’s true status is okay but not terribly interesting to me, personally. Talking about the Outfit in 2011 is like talking about a great prize fighter way past his prime struggling to get through another boxing match.

(I’ll post this up here because if I post it down the thread where it belongs, it will get too narrow and distorted.)

Not that this matters too much, but I find it interesting. It was explained to me today that Mickey Marcello is 100% Italian. Obviously, he and James had the same father (the late Sam), but Mickey’s mother was an Urbinati, from  what I was told. (Bobby Urbinati was indicted in the 1990′s for his alleged role in Eboli and Centracchio’s rackets, and 2-years ago, he made local headlines for running that legal but unpopular porn shop with sex club on 15th Ave.) Supposedly, the Urbinatis and Englishes are closely related, and Mickey Marcello, I am told, is the nephew of Chuckie and Sam English. 
Mickey Marcello was not a cooperating witness against John Ambrose. A reader named “Tony” asked why he flipped. He did not. He was given immunity and told prosecutors what he knew about Ambrose only. 

It will be interesting to see what happens with him when he is released from prison. 

The Don, I dont mind talking about relevant things or about anyone’s Made status (that’s just me). I do know alot about Mooney’s era. I do know how he came to power. He was a tremendous earner, not greedy, had a tremendous following and was very tough (ironically like Marco). But their has been so much written about him, I dont know what anyone could write that I havent heard or read before. I personally would like to read an article on this “big shot” Lee Magnifichi. And Marco was never passed around like some basketball. I’ve explained this before and get a lil more detailed now. Marco came up with the Outfit under Cicero. Around the time he started putting big money on the streets and bookmaking (1967 or so) he belonged to Turk Torello. In the years 1970 – 79.. Marco was Made. 1979 was a monumental year (like 1986) because Turk died. And most of the Wild Bunch was dead or in prison. When Butch Petrocelli said he was going to be the next boss of the Outfit at that infamous New Years Party (that was taken out of context). I personally attended that party at the Ambassardor East Hotel in the Gold Coast with the Booze and hookers. All Butch was saying was he was going to replace Turk (when he died). That was essentially a Boss position in the Outfit I must admit. Anyhow everyone was either dead or in prison that was a Outfit Guy that was a fixture at the Survivors. The only guy with a crew that was around still at Survivors (around 1980) was Marco. After Turks death Marco went direct with Obrien (instead of Joe Nick.. During these years specifically 1979 was the rise of Solly DeLaurentis and Rocky Infelise). Right around the time Obrien was going off to prison he dismantled Taylor Street (essentially Marco’s Crew and Joe Nicks Crew) and sent him out to Elmwood Park and sent Joe Nick back to Cicero and Lake County. In Cooleys book this was when Marco moved to a nicer “building”. Their have been enough insiders, stool pigeons, other Made Guys (other than Willie according to Fosco) that will concur this is when Marco became Johnny DiFronzo’s 2nd in command. So all this being passed around non sense is absurb. If Turk had lived their wouldn’t of been no passing around. But certain things happen in 1979 and 86 that changed the complexion of the Outfit and the street crews. I do know the FBI and the case agents assigned to Marco where perplexed why he had moved out to Elmwood Park.

The Don, That party took place on December 31, 1979 – Jan 1 1980. Butch had replaced Turk (Turk had already been dead). So Marco may have belonged to Butch for one year. Before Butch got whacked. He treated Marco as an equal though because Marco was Made and had a crew.

Black Angelo,  I think Joe Fosco, You & Me know a hell of a lot about the Outfit. I just can’t understand why we are so divided on this Marco issue? Joe Fosco is extreme, you are the other extreme and I’m somewhere in the middle. It’s funny because the three of us are pretty much in agreement on everything except maybe a a few minor things here and there. But the opinion about Marco is really divided. To be honest, both of you guys make some really good points. I honestly don’t know. I admit it. I’m almost tempted to take a chance and try to make up with my relative just to find out. I would absolutely believe his answer. He would really know the answer. However, if he suspects I’ve been on these threads, he wouldn’t be too happy. Anyway, you mentioned Butch. I believe Angeleo LaPietra wa in line to be a the Boss ( Capo) of  26th St. after Turk died, Not Butch. That was wishful thinking on the part of Butch. Your thoughts?

Horsey,  Good Work on your research. I didn’t know he was a nephew of Chuckie English. Very interesting. That means he’s got Taylor St. blood in him. Maybe there is hope for him! I agree with your opinion.

Black Angelo,  Also out of curiosity, do you believe Lee became the Capo within the Extended Elmwood Park Crew in 1986? Now I never got specifics from my relative about Lee, but I specifically remember talking about Joey A. around 2003 or 2004. I was in Panera’s on North Ave. in Elmwood Park sitting there having some cofee with my cousin.  Joey A. walked in all by himself . There was a driver waiting for him in the car. He sat down at a table near us and ordered some coffee.  He had a brief case with him and set it down on the seat next to him.  He started to read a newspaper while drinking his coffee.  After he finished his coffee, he got up and left.  However, he left something on the seat which looked like an envelope. My cousin wanted to retrieve the envelope and give it to Joey A. thinking he accidently left it there.  I stopped my cousin and said ” don’t do anything.”  Sure enough within seconds, another man picked up the envelope and walked out of the restaurant. Panera’s must be used as a drop for payoffs.  Anyway,  I told my relative the story. He said I did the right thing and to forget what I saw. I told him Joey A. was very well dressed and looked very important. He said as important as Joey A. is, Lee was a powerhouse before him. That tells me that Joe Fosco must be correct in saying that Lee became the Capo within the Extended Elmwood Park Group before Joey A.  Sorry for the long story, but that’s what led up to my relative making a quick comparison unsolicited. 

Turk was pretty much over Joe Nick, the Wild Bunch, Marco, and Angelo LaPietra. When Turk died their was a division. Joe Nick filled a void, and Angelo was then the sole Capo of Chinatown. Butch was more aligned with Turk (basically like his 2nd in command) but Butch was also very much close to Joe Nick. As you remember Frank Calabrese Sr. saying “Butchie had Joe Negalls ear” (meaning Butch and Joe Nick got Tony Borse whacked). Butch was in a position of power he ordered many bombings, and a wreckage of a pornographic store where a guy was killed (this was 1979 and a young Fat Sarno and Solly C where involved). Rocky Infelise, Bobby Salerno, Solly Cautedella, and Fat Sarno all belonged to Butch. Its funny because when up and coming gangsters are coming up in the Outfit their taught to use aliases and what not. Mike Sarno always went by the name Mike Bryant. There is a part in Cooley’s book where he is getting muscled by Hal Smith (the big time bookie) and his British Enforcer (this is like 1979). This is at the Walgreens downtown in the Loop. Anyways Butch barges in their to help Cooley at the 11th hour and following him is Bobby Salerno, some hitman he says (more than likely Solly Cautedella) and who he calls Fat Mike Bryant (Solly C and Sarno went everywhere with Butch back then, Trust Me).. When I read that I started laughing because up in till when Cooley wrote his book in 2004 he still was calling Sarno by his alias LOL (I don’t think he ever got Sarno‘s true last name). I’m 110 % positive that was a young Fat Ass Sarno with Salerno and Butchie. No doubt in my mind. When Butch got whacked.. Rocky Infelise took his spot as 2nd in command to Joe Nick in their crew. Butch’s crew went with them also. They ended up in Cicero and Lake County. Everybody fell in line. I have a source close to Fat Sarno and he is I’m told till this day still upset Butch got knocked down the way he did. Ironic because Sarno is now very close to Tony Borse’s two sons Lewis and Joey (they‘re all about the same age). Ironic because Fat Sarno was aligned with Butch.. Butch got Tony Borse whacked. And I’m told Fat Sarno named his first son (born in 1992) after Marco Damico lol. Great story on Andriacchi by the way. That is around the time he was meeting every Friday with Albie Vena at Rosebuds. Every time I’ve ever seen Andriacchi in public he has always had a mean scowl on his face. I want Joe Fosco to do a story on Lee Magnifichi. And I believe Lee is Made But I believe Marco was Capo. Strike that. Technically Johnny DiFronzo was probably the Capo from 1986 – 92 and everybody direct with him.. Marco, Joey A, Lee M., Mikey C, Willie. Etc. 1992 was the monumental year The Don. Dont feel like typing anymore.

Black Angelo,  Almost correct at the end of your post. Johnny was the Boss of The Extended Elmwood Park Crew and the Underboss of the ENTIRE Outfit beginning in 1986.  Within the Elmwood Park Crew,  Lee became the Capo in 1986. All the men were either with Lee or direct with Johnny. That includes Marco, made or a high level Associate, either way. The correct use of the word Extended refers to the Crews of Cicero And Elmwood Park during all those years because those two crews had the Top Boss ( Auippa ) & the Underboss ( Cerone ) in them. In 1986, when Auippa & Cerone went away, They were replaced by Carlisi & DiFronzo. Both Crews were still obviously ‘ Extended’ and they included Ferriola ( Cicero) & Magnaficchi ( Elmwood Park ). I’m spelling it out so the other readers are not confused by the word ‘ Extended ‘. This is the way my relative referred to the Top Boss’s Crew and the Underboss’s Crew. The other 4 Crews were simply referred to as Crews without the word ‘Extended ’ being used.

Also, and this is somewhat more widely know, the late Sam Marcello was close with John Matassa Sr. who was one of Mooney’s drivers. (Joe would call him Mooney’s stooge.) Mickey Marcello and John Matassa Jr. were best friends growing up.

Black Angelo, it’s me, Teets. Thanks for the great info. Yes, Marco definitely (without a doubt) averaged 15 fights (fist fights, to be precise) per year from 1955 – 1966. Maybe even 16 or 17 depending on who you talk to. But Lee Mags averaged probably about 20, according to what I know. Maybe Joe’s article will shed some more accurate light on it.

Lee could rip a telephone book in half, according to what I heard.

Wait a second you just said it. Johnny DiFronzo starting in or around 1986 was the boss of the entire Elmwood Park Street Crew. He was the Capo. Yes it became “Extended” because he was named Black Sam’s Underboss. I think it was already Extended when Cerone was Obriens underboss (but there was know Capo their in the 1970s-86 but Cerone himself and he had guys direct with him and a 2nd in command). Anyhow that would mean out of Cicero (Melrose Park) Extended Jimmy Marcello in or around 1986 was named Capo (and I dont think that was necessarily true). I believe Black Sam had a 2nd in command and close confidant (one Jimmy Marcello who served as a driver) and everybody was direct with him out his base (but with a chain of command). Same thing in Elmwood Park. I don’t believe Lee Magnifichi was the capo. I believe Johnny was the Capo and had one or two close confidants and everybody was direct with him with a chain of command. When Bob Cooley was getting muscled by bookies in 1987 he was either going to go to Marco but decided to go over his head to Johnny DiFronzo. I have heard of Lee Magnifichi but never heard of him being a Capo. He is a mystery man, he’s never listed in any Outfit books or FBI flow charts or Chicago Newspaper accounts (but one) (I don’t think that is because people aren’t in the know). I just think if he was a Capo with all the dry snitches and informants someone would have had him pegged as a Capo. My 2 cents on the matter. I do believe he was Made though.. Elmwood Park ‘Made” everybody lol.

There WAS a Capo in Elmwood Park in the 1970′s to 1986, DiFronzo. From 1970′s to 1986, the 2 powers in the Extended Elmwood Park Group were Cerone, The Underboss of the entire Outfit & DiFronzo, the Capo. Begining in 1986, after Cerone went to jail, the 2 powers within the Extended Elmwood Park group were DiFronzo, the new Underboss of the Outfit and Lee Magnaficchi, the new Capo. Almost the same scenario for the Cicero Group. From the 1970′s to 1986, the 2 powers within the Extended Cicero Group were Auippa, The Top Boss of the entire Outfit and Ferriola, The Capo. Carlisi was the personal underboss to Auippa within that Group. Beginning in 1986, Carlisi became the Top Boss of the Extended Cicero Group and Ferriola REMAINED in the same spot as the Capo. Marcello then became the personal underboss/assistant to Carlisi. I hope this makes it more clear. 

Teets,  Did you see the other story I related about Willie & Joey L.? It’s further down in the postings.

Okay Loud and Clear.. So Johnny DiFronzo was the Capo during the 1970s and part of the 80s. If anything that adds more that Marco was MADE and did not belong to Elmwood Park. If the latter was true he would be 110% MADE. But never mind the latter. I’m gonna see how smart you are.. Think about it. And Lee’s stint was very short 1986-89. And Johnny sent Andriaachi to oversee Grand Ave after Eboli died in 1987. Wonder who took over in 1990 in Elmwood Park.. hmmmm.

Andriacchi became the Capo within the Extended Elmwood Park Group in 1988 after Lee Died. Cozzo became the Capo in the Grand Ave. Group after Eboli died. Marco was in the Elmwood Park Group in 1989. Here comes the question that will probably never be resoved between you and Joe. Was Marco a highly placed Associate in the Elmwood Park Group in 1989 with soldiers working under him OR was he a made guy in the Elmwood Park Group with soldiers working under him. That is the question. In 1994, when Marco went away with some of his guys, if you notice, it didn’t involve Andriacchi, Cataldo, Pete DiFronzo or anyone in the Elmwood Park Group. It involvedvolved only Marco and HIS soldiers. 

I thought Joe Andriacchi was direct with DiFronzo (like Greedy Pete) but the caretaker of Grand Ave while his ‘Cuzzin’ Lumpy was away. Builder East -Builder West. They were partners. Cozzo was very high ranking also in his group. He was like the Marco of his group (Caretaker /Gambling Boss) And the Don your correct about Marco and just his guys going down and no one else (what’s that tell you ? Your thoughts ? Btw, Johnny DiFronzo should of went down with them ) Please respond at the top of the page. THis is getting way to narrow.

Black Angelo,  Eboli was the underboss of the Grand Ave. Crew under Lombardo. When Lombardo went away Eboli was the Caretaker Capo until he died in 1987. Cozzo then became the Capo/Caretaker. Andriacchi was the Capo within the Extended Elmwood Park Group after Lee Died in 1988. All men within the Elmwood Park Group were either with Andriacchi who of course was with DiFronzo or were direct with DiFronzo. For example, Pete was a made guy DIRECT with his Brother. Other made men were with Andriacchi like Mike Magnaficchi for example. Marco was DIRECT with Johnny. Again, the big debated question is, was Marco a made man running a franchise or was he a High Level Associate direct with Johnny in 1989. That is the Question. Joe Fosco says he was a High Level Associate DIRECT with Johnny because of his tremendous earning power in Bookmaking. You say he was a made man DIRECT with Johnny running a franchise just like some other made men. That is the question that I personally don’t know the answer. Joe says he wasn’t ever made because of Alchoholism & maybe a couple of other reasons he won’t reveal at this time. You say he was already made previously and was  ’transfered ‘ by Auippa to Elmwwod Park to have an eye on what was going on and also DFronzo wanted him there for earning purposes.  I have narrowed it down to those two possibilities. I’m going out of town for a couple of days on vacation, so we could continue when I come back. Remember one thing, either way, in 1989 Marco was an important man DIRECT with Johnny. Even Joe Fosco would concede that point.

The Don, When Marco dies that will be the end of the Outfit (unless Tony Dote picks up where he left off or if Jimmy Marcello wins his appeal).. Marco is still in pretty good shape (besides loosing his hearing) so maybe he has 10 years left in him. Understand Marco formed his own crew, he is an organizer of men, he has corrupted police officers, armed poker players and has a large following that looks up to him and idolizes him for various reasons. (Joe Fosco patronizes the latter point as some joke. But that is what made Mooney so successful. How many guys has the Outfit had that are like Mooney or Marco.. NOT MANY (in the last 40 years) ! For instance most of these guys inherit their crews. Their not really ‘street guys’ in my mind. Look at the Elmwood Park Crew.. Joe Gags should be credited fully with putting them on the map and where they are today (excluding Marco). Gags brought Willie, The DiFronzos, Andriacchi and Lee Magnifichi all into the Life. Cerone inherited everything. Same thing in the 1980s.. Can anyone on here name me 7 guys in Lee Magnifichi crew ? How about 7 guys that Andriacchi brought in. Since 1970 here are the guys that in my mind where like a Marco or a Mooney (in that they where an organizer of men, turned wannabe’s into men, formed their own crews, had large followings): Obrien, Angelo LaPietra, Tony Spilotro, Frank Calabrese Sr., Turk Torello, Joe Nick, Black Sam, Jimmy Marcello, Joey Lombardo and of course Marco and Joe Gags. That’s it. I’m talking about guys that where nobody’s (pure wannabes in the neighborhoods and these aforementioned guys claimed them first.) Of course Mikey Castaldo had a crew but he did not recruit any of those guys in their 20s. His crew was pure inherited. Marco is a dying breed. He is the only one left on the streets. That has his recruiting skills. He’s already proven to be an organizer of men. Johnny DiFronzo is a smart man (a man who inherited men himself, but having said that he is a smart Boss, he knows what strengths he has and what weaknesses he has) and he realizes this. That is why Jimmy Marcello was a Top/Street boss in 2003 when he got out. And That is why Marco is running the show for him now. Marco is Top Boss. The last “Mooney” type this city will probably ever see. My 2 cents. Your thoughts ?

Aside from Marco & Dote, What about Solly D., Cautedella, ETC?

Been meaning to ask….what about Lard Ass Sarno’s people, Marcello’s, Calabrese’s, etc. even though they are away….no dice for their crews to move on?

Chitowndago,  I’m responding from out of town. Cautedella, Sarno ( who is presently incarcerated ) are all with Marcello ( who is trying to win his Appeal. ) They are all Cicero Crew. For that matter, so is Solly D.  I believe there is a future with the Cicero Crew, especially if Marcello wins his Appeal. Frank Calabrese’s people were all soldiers who went to jail except his brother Nick ( who of course was his partner and a made guy. ) What you really mean is ‘ What about Toots Causo and the 26th St. Crew. Yes, there is some future there. I think there is some future also with the Grand Ave. Crew under Vena. I think there is some future also with the Chicago Heights Crew with Guzzino and a few others down there. I just don’t see the Outfit ever rising again anywhere close to the level of power they had in the old days for a number of reasons which would take to long to explain right now. But yes, there is definitly future with the Outfit. Compared to the peak of power the Outfit had achieved say 35 years ago, I would say the Outfit is operating at about 1/4 to 1/3 speed. However, that still is not bad because the Outfit was very powerful back then. one man who caould jump start the Outfit quicker than anyone right now would be Jimmy Marcello. If he gets out, Cicero will be stronger and the other crews will be partneres with his Dominent crew and that could be a good thing for the Outfit. I’m purposely not addressing Elmwood Park right now because we’ve talked alot about them recently. 

My relative was with Mikey Castaldo. Yes, they were no spring chickens. Well, as I explained in my post to Chitowndago, I think there will still be a future of some sort with the Outfit. One Man who could really make a difference would be Jimmy Marcello. As far as the men you mentioned above, I agree with you that those were/are powerful guys who brought some great men into the Outfit. From 1957 forward, I would  also like to add Ross Prio, ( former Capo of the North Side/ Rush  St. Crew ) & Frank LaPorte, ( Former Capo of the Chicago Heights Crew.)  Those two guys brought a lot of stong men into the Outfit and  are not mentioned enough.

The Don, I didn’t even bother mentioning anybody pre 1970 (or guys from the 1940s/50 era because it was obvious they brought people in the Outfit except for Cerone lol) I did mention Joe Gags to make a point though. Chitowndago, Solly D is still active but does what most senior citizen OutfitGuys do when they get up there in years. They take long vacations to sunny places and collect cash (and royalties). I know he is in Marco’s inner circle and that Pudgy serves as his servant and driver most of the time. I also saw that you asked about Jimmy I in a early posting on this or one of the other threads. You wondered if he was broke… He is not (not even close), however he is one of the worst dressed OutfitGuys i’ve ever layed my eyes on. Some of the things he wears in public should be forbidden. I do know he wants to come off as nondescript now because he does not want to go back to prison for anything. He’s given 100 years for his organization (The Outfit).

Hey Black, why didn’t Joe Nick or Rocky help Butch?  Because he screwed over Harry, very stupid on his part.  What is the reason Tony Bors was killed?  I do not believe that the way Slim layed it out in FS was the whole story.  Still interested in Black Sam stuff, Obrien schooled Black Sam and Sam schooled Jimmy Marcello right to the top.  Marcello will not win an appeal in my opinion, not because of lack of legal grounds but because it just doesnt happen in OC cases.  RICO is not very constitutional in my opinion.

Joe,  I met with a guy I went to school with who is a high level local  law enforcement officer. The Police are not too happy with Rada and the false accusations. Also, as a side note, I asked him his opinion about some of the current status of the Outfit today. He said that the Outfit has been reduced to 4 Street Crews. They are Elmwood Park, Cicero, 26th street & Grand Ave. He said Grand Ave. is closely allied with Elmwood Park & 26th St is closely allied with Cicero. He said the North Side Rush St. Crew is not a seperate Crew like in the past. Any guys left over are part of Elmwood Park. ( This confirms what we have talked about ), However, he also said that Chicago Height’ s is not a seperate Crew either. He said the made guys down in the south Suburbs are either part of the 26th St. Crew or the Cicero Crew depending upon the activity they control. Would you agree with this opinion? 

Dear Yester,
When you say “false accusations,” what do you mean? Thanks.

When Johnny Apes was street boss in the 1990′s after LaPietra died, was Chinatown the second most powerful crew after the Elmwood Park?

Guido, Joe Nick was under alot of pressure from his nephew (Harry Aleman) to look into why Butch had not been indicted with him on the Home Invasion thing Harry went down on and how come he had never been arrested for murder like he had. In other words Butch was labeled a stool pigeon by bosses, and he had the cross-hairs lined up on him. TO make matters worse Obrien and Joe Nick did not like Butch’s (according to them) flamboyount lifestyle. But the real reason Butch got whacked is because they (the bosses) “assumed” Butch was a beefer and possibly stealing monies from them (Harry was not around to collect no more because of his imprisonment). This was out of Rocky Infelice hands.. plus when Butch got whacked Rocky replaced him. Tony Borse got whacked over a similar reason. THe bosses thought he was beefer and had potential to become a stoole pigeon if he ever got indicted and was looking at a lot of time they figured he might roll. Tony Borse made the mistake of questioning some bosses about the innocence of some ot the burglars who looted Joe B’s house in 1978. Butch used that as leverage to have him whacked or plant the seed Tony Borse might become a stoolie someday (also it didnt help that it was suspected Tony Borse was in some debt and messing around with the black dope dealing gangs and financing their dope trades with Outfit money). When Tony Borse’s guardian angel died of cancer in April 1979 Turk Torello…Borse was a goner (about a month later). Those where some treacherous times in the Outfit. The only guy with a crew left standing down at Survivors was Marco. And yes the RICO is very unconstitutional.

Joe,  It’s me The Don. I’m posting from out of town and there was some king of mistake on this strange computer. Can you change all the postings from yesterdaylv to the correct name which is me, The Don. I’m sorry but I don’t know what happened.

Horsey, Yes no doubt about it. Apes was the #2 man right behind Johnny DiFronzo from 1993 – 2001. Chinatown was the 2nd most powerful crew behind Elmwood Park Extended… after Apes died power shifted back to Cicero Extended (although Apes was originally from Cicero). Hatch Chairmonti (from Melrose Park - Cicero Extended) even tried to claim Chinatown’s turf in the spring, summer and fall of 2001. From my understanding the Caruso’s where not happy about The Hatch roaming around their turf for most of 2001. In my mind Cicero was trying to make a statement. The Hatch was knocked down by November of that same year. (Apes died in January of 2001). It almost caused a friggin war.

Horsey,  when Johnny Apes became the #2 Boss of the entire Outfit. He also was the Boss of 26th St. This is good that you brought this up. You are knowledgeable about Frank Sr.’s tapes. If you read all of Frank Calabrese’s transcripts, somewhere in there he says that Johnny Apes not only became the Capo of the 26th St. Crew but became the #2 at the same time. This further explains that the Two Top Bosses are still the Bosses of their Crews. Nobody gives up anything when taking the Top Spot or the #2 Spot. And Yes, 26th st. was the Number 2 Crew or the Sub Dominent Crew to Elmwood Park when Johnny Apes became the Underboss of the entire Outfit.

Joe,  I’m talking about the false accusations the Rada family is making about the Chicago Police saying they set up Rada. What did you think I was talking about?

Black Angelo,  Did you see my posting right below this one.  A high level law enforcement guy with whom I went to College with says that over at least the last ten years, the Outfit has downsized from 6 street crews to 4. He says Rush St. is part of Elmwood Park and that the made guys left that are operating in the South suburbs are either part of the 26th Street Crew or they’re part of the Cicero Crew depending upon the particular activity. I personally think he is accurate. The 4 Street Crews would be Elmwood Park, Grand Ave., Cicero & 26th St. Your thoughts?

There was no deal that I’m aware of. If there was a deal then Mickey would have gotten reduced sentence for his Family Secrets crimes. From what I have heard he is really struggling with his prison time. 

He was not a willing witness, so he was given immunity whether he liked it or not. He could have taken the 5th, but that would have gotten him additional time for contempt. I think what he did instead was give some mealy-mouthed, vague answers that didn’t help the prosecution at all. It didn’t matter, anyway, because Ambrose got convicted. The feds didn’t even need Mickey

Horsey, Did you find Frank Sr’s transcript where he’s telling his son that Johnny Apes not only became the Capo of 26th St. but became the #2 at the same time. Also, it appears the streets crews have been downsized from 6 to 4 for about the last ten years. I knew they downsized but I wasn’t sure about if it went from 6 to 5 or 6 to 4. A couple of the made guys left over from the Heights Crew are with 26th St. or Cicero depending upon their activity.

That is what I thought you meant. I simply wanted you to idiot proof your comment so people would not think that you were insinuating that I was making false statements. Thank you.

In recent years Joey A does his own thing, which is not very much. He and Johnny hardly ever see each other. Joe did not tell Johnny that his wife died, this should give you an idea of how f***ed up things are. Lombardo’s crew has much more exposure to Joey A than the DiFronzos would.

You got it. However, your timing is a bit off. Lee died a couple of day prior to the turn of the decade (889/90).

I will see what i could do this weekend.

Even better.

I would agree. I hope I did not make people think that that is what I meant. In my estimation, Marco belonged to Lee during all of the 80s. I will check into it to see if I could find out exactly when is started.

Joey A

My response to Black Angelo, which is located directly under his comments.
 
Black Angelo,
Okay so many things I’m going to dissect here. So let me get this straight Marco has always belonged to Lee Magnifichi (lol) no offense Joe (you know I respect your Outfit knowledge 90 % of the time) but that is utter bullshit my friend. And Marco was used… If anything he used them (last I checked Marco survived 5 decades in a terrorist and brutal organization while becoming wealthy all the while.. Sure their was occupational hazzard along the way but it “is what it is” as Solly would say). Anyhow so when Marco belonged to “Lee” .. Mr Magnifichi let Marco operate out of the Survivors Club all those years in the 70s and also reside in Cicero. It seems a lil odd that Marco hung around socially and “professionally” with a lot of Cicero / Taylor Steet Extended guys (meaning Wild Bunch) for all those years but belonged to Elmwood Park (Cerone/or Lee) that is utter Bullshit. Marco “Trust Me” belonged to Turk Torello/Obrien. And they where going to take Marco’s office in the 1980s (LOL).. How do you think this man got the Elmwood Park Social Club in the 80s ??? Lee had nothing to do with that my friend ! I’m told Lee was a puppet placed by Johnny DiFronzo. Marco was the real power. I cant believe you asked who Marco has ever killed ? Do you know how much money he made for Obrien, Turk, Johnny D !?!? And nobody on the streets would accuse Marco of being some “candy ass”. Who did Donald Angelini ever kill ? He was Made. And who has Joe Andriacchi or Lee Magnifichi ever killed ? By the way Joe I have a source equal to your Willie Messino. And Cooley’s book was over all accurate because 80 % of it can be collaborated. I think he’s trying to use his credibility off that 80% & and trying to parlay it into people believing everything he says like with Gov. Blago being a bookie lol (kind of like YOU with this Marco thing, your trying to parlay your credibility). Anyhow I asked my source why Tony Spilotro would of backed down to Cooley when Cooley named dropped Marco. And he said simple… Tony knew Marco was a MadeGuy and had already claimed the independent Cooley. He said if Marco was not made.. Tony Spilotro would of smacked or beat the ever loving fuck out of Cooley. Then if push came to shove… he would of won the sit down with Marco over the independent. Because Tony was a Made Guy (obviously he knew Marco’s status also or had this bazaar tremendous respect for a non made guy)… Frank Cullotta would collaborate this (Marco being MADE). And you had dinner with Tony Dote “roughly 10 years ago” and on top of that he was subservient to Michael Magnifichi ? Huh ! (By the way when did Michael get made ? And who in the fuck has he ever killed ?) Back to Tony Dote. Tony got locked up in 1996 and didn’t see the streets till 2007. So this dinner must have been at Pekin or something. And he wouldn’t in a million years had dinner with a blabber mouth drunk organized crime ‘associate’ like Magnifichi while on parole. Don’t make since. And every Outfit guy was a wannabe at one point in their life (I can guarantee you that). Tony was in Marcos crew by the time he was 27 y.o. And Johnny DiFronzo was seen in public many times with Marco before he went away in 1994 and after he got out in 2005. Perception is reality and Johnny is smart enough to understand that. He knows the FBI and anyone who could lock him away (meaning the police/FEDS).. They all know Marco is Made. So its not like Johnny is thinking to himself “oh boy lets see here Marco is really not made so its okay for me to be seen in public with him.. And I‘ll explain this to the FEDS at a later date If they apprehend me”.. give me a break. I don’t think Johnny minds being seen in public with a Willie Messino or Marco D’amico. By the way Joe Andriacchi has been seen numerous times in public with a diabolical killer one Albie Vena. Oh so that must mean Albie is not made huh ? And Joe Fosco you know how careful Andriaachi is in public. To be seen with Centracchio at Aunt Sarah’s is one thing. To be seen with serial killer Albie Vena out in the open at Rosebuds on Taylor over 50 times is friggin nuts ! There is overwhelming evidence Marco is MADE and overwhelming evidence he did not belong to Elmwood Park till the mid 80s. The Lackey LOL !!!!!! Who did he ever kill…
 
 
(my response)
 
Dear Black…,
 
I do not recall saying that Marco ‘always’ belonged to Lee (show me the statement that I supposedly made). However, if I did make such comment, I was certainly referring to the timeframe when Lee was powerful (keep in mind he was powerful for a small number of years before he became capo). Thank you for bringing the matter to my attention. I am happy to have clarified my meaning.
 
True there has been a few known made guys who had never killed, but who served as big earners or extremely influential contacts. However, Marco is not among them because he is not ‘made’, in addition, he never killed anyone.
 
To name one person (which I wrote an article on) Lee killed Dinger. I will defer on mentioning whom I believe Joey A killed.
 
Please hold off with your criticism of my credibility until you come out of hiding with your identity and publish a list of ‘some’ of your sources as I did in the piece on Dyno.
 
Many Outfit associates wrongfully think Marco is made, the same way they thought Joe Nick was the boss and Accardo was boss of bosses until he died. Lol
 
You are wrong about Tony Dote’s prison time. He was not locked up for a period in the early 2000s when I had dinner with him. We had dinner at Tuscany in Oak Brook, Illinois – we sat at a table in the bar where the band sometimes sets up (there was no band that night). Unfortunately, you have destroyed your credibility with me because I know with certainty that Dote, Michael and Jackie were at my dinner table. You are being very irrational by insinuating that I am either stupid or a complete liar. Check your facts and let me know when you are ready to apologize for insulting me.
 
Johnny did not like being seen with Willie in public – they never went out in public together or planned to meet each other in public. Johnny would bump into Willie in public places because they lived a couple of blocks from each other. One time Willie and I were at Horwath’s having lunch when Michael called me to see if he could join us. I ran it by Willie, who said, “No, that ‘guy’ comes in here and he does not want to see us meeting here.” Of course, I knew he meant Johnny (and no, he did not touch his nose – Willie got upset when he saw people refer to Johnny by touching their noses).
 
Joey A is a much different person than Johnny.
 
 

This is VIEW only, but I could give some of you editing privileges. I’m especially interested in seeing what Joe Fosco and the Don could do with this.

https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1s7y698ms7yA73oIONJGH0vM09ExFKAdc5PAo_8nXN3o/edit?pli=1

Joe Fosco, Well Johnny DiFronzo does not being seen in public or in a public place with Marco. You’ve got to remember “perception is reality” and Marco is “perceived” by law enforcement ot be a MadeGuy which for Johnny DiFronzo “is reality that Marco is a MadeGuy”.  And of course I knew Tony Dote was out for a period in the early 2000s and on parole and then went right back to prison, but it is not my job to tell you (I’m alot smarter than you think my friend) and he needed no money from no one and had been indicted for running a multi-million dollar bookmaking offices for Marco. But he met with Michael Magnifichi and Esquire and was asking for money ? And Joe you come off as a spoiled kid sometimes or an insecure grown ass man that needs reassurance. So if you want me to apologize to you okay. My credibilty is shattered LOL !!!!!!! nice try. Anyways you didnt even know who Dum Dum Biancofiore was (remember you thought I was calling you “Dum” a couple of months back, but I was actually refering to Mike Biancofiore). You even thought Harry Aleman ’might’ of been at the Spilotro murders ? I mean would you like me to read into everything you say or write. Lets get real Fosco ! You read to much into the most trivial b.s. its pathetic. Nick Calabrese was a MadeGuy in the Outfit and knows more than you do about the Outit. But he doesent have the greatest credibility with each and everyting. Do you get what i’m trying to say. Okay Joe I’M SORRY JOE. Now learn to move on in life and grow up. Anyways when was Michael Magnifichi made ? Why was he Made ? Who did he kill ? Who was an idiot and betrayed his fathers Lee wishes by sponsoring him for membership ? and Johnny DiFronzo must of (or had to of) opened the books after 1990 (especially if your saying Mike is made). And Marco is not made LOL!!!!!!!!! And i think beating endless amounts of guys to a bloody pulp, biting police officers fingers off during a fight, dumping lighter fluid on a man and burning him is very close to murder and or shows signs of a guy that might not mind whacking someone… meaning Marco’s past history of violence.

The Don, there must of been a point when Apes swallowed in the Heights in the early 1990s. If you recall Ceasar’s (Tocco) imprisonment in 1990, Toots Palermo imprisonment in 1992 and couple that with the fact Apes was named #2 in or around 1993. He must of Extended 26th street and kept his powerbase but took over the Heights region also. This I imagine would of never happen with Ceasar or Tootsie on the streets. I would say the guy (the cop) you talked to was accurate. God forbid he isn’t accurate with the 4 street crews… his credibilty could be loss forever lol.

Dear Black,
You have completely back peddled from your assertion that I would have had to dine with Tony in Pekin for it to be true. Instead, you have lodged false claims that I have made incorrect statements. I never stated that Aleman was at the Spilotro murder soon. Whether I was aware of Biancofiore’s nickname or not has no place in the sill point you are desperately attempting to make.
The self crediting statement, “I am a lot than you think…,” coming from a man accusing me of being insecure gave me just the laugh I was looking for today. Thanks for your continued involvement in the threads. On behalf of American News Post, thank you for your long-term and dedicated readership; and I accept your apology.
Sincerely,
JF

Knanz,  I agree. In fact I’ve been defending him.

No Problem.

Joe,  You made a very good point about Marco. The point you made is what I had said previously a couple of times. The Outfit doesn’t play musical chairs. I know this for a fact. You made a very good point when you said Marco was always aligned with the current Top power and that if it shifted then he would shift with it. Example, Marco started with Cicero and then shifted towards Elmwood Park. Made guys don’t shift around like musical chairs and quit to go work with someone else or get transfered around to be with other people. That is a good point which corresponds to whatI have always stated. I just wanted to point this out to you that your statement did not go unnoticed by me. That statement is almost more important than if someone killed or didn’t kill anyone.

The Don, actually I made that point that Marco started in Cicero. Essentially Joe Fosco is making the claim for me Marco may in fact be Made. In that Joe claims he has always belonged to Elmwood Park or whoever was Capo (or in power) at the time (regardless of where Marco operated out of). Therefore in a 50 year criminal history according to Fosco… Marco would of never been passed around (he just would of belonged to Elmwood Park). And the Don… The Outfit does play musical chairs, especially if circumstances arise. You may belong to certain “Bosses/or Powers” but if someone dies or a new regime takes over you had better fall in line… just look at Turk or Joe Nick’s history. They came up on Taylor Street brought in by Lenny Caifano. Caifano got whacked by Teddy Roe and then they went with FiFi. They was with FiFi for years. After FiFi died they belonged to Obrien. TRUST ME ! They essentially went from Taylor Street Extended to Cicero Extended. Marco was never passed around like a basketball. Deaths of certain individuals changed the dynamics of Marco’s path. Marco was Cicero Extended and then Elmwood Park Extended. And Marco was at the Survivors Club on Taylor from 1969 – 1988. I previously stated he was at Elmwood Park Social Club around 1985. But it was around 1988/89 he went out to Elmwood Park.

I understand Joe no hard feelings. I just take issue that Tony Dote was subservant to Mike Mags and or asked him or Esquire for money. I know he takes issue with that statement as well. Tony knows who to ask for money if he is in a jackpot and it ain’t Mags or Esquire he would of went to. Worst case if he needed money he would of went to Guy Damico or Johnny DiFronzo or Marco.

There was always a connection between the Heights Outfit and the 26th st. guys. Oak lawn and the Evergreen Park area was always stomping grounds of the 26th st. guys. Jimmy Catura came from Armour Square. Apes lived in Oak lawn. The two groups shared an interest in the chop shops back in the 1970′s.  

Dear Black,

Marco is one solution for Tony Dote if money becomes a problem; however, Johnny DiFronzo is not. Tony Dote’s brother Carl beat a dear friend of Johnny’s out of 30-grand because he died before Carl was released from prison. If Carl wanted to do the right thing, he could have met with ‘someone’ and repaid the debt, regardless of the lenders death. Johnny is well aware of the bad debt. In addition, Johnny would certainly keep a mental blacklist in his head with the name Dote on it if anyone with the name Dote were insane enough to ask him for a dime.

Yeah I know what your talking about Joe. Someone is obviously protecting Carl (Dote). But remember Joe to seperate Tony from Carl. There nothing alike in all honesty.. besides money is their God. But the Johnny DiFronzo – Carl Dote money thing is alot deeper than what can be said on here. You get what i’m sayin.

Black Angelo,  You’re right about Taylor St.  However, the Taylor St. Crew diminshed naturally because of death.  The remaining guys that were with Fifi Bucciere based their power center 16 blocks south to 26th st.  That’s all that happened.  After Fifi Bucciere died in 1973, what was left became the basis of the 26th St. Crew because of attrition.  The Cicero Crew has never ceased to exist like the Taylor St. Crew. Torello and a few of the guys with Bucciere were STILL TOGETHER.  The new epicenter for the remaining Crew moved 16 Blocks South.  That’s all that happened.  Now, concerning Marco, if he were truly made into the Cicero Crew, he would have never ended up in Elmwood Park.  The ONLY way that could have happened would have been if Cicero ceased to exist and was phased out like what happened to Taylor St. because of death and natural attrition. After 1973, Mooney was long out of power, Battaglia was dead, Bucciere was dead, Alderisio was dead, Daddano was in prison. Do you see the difference?   The Outfit doesn’t allow MADE GUYS to play musical chairs. If their Crew is alive and operating, a Made guy stays with that Crew until DEATH.  What I’m actually saying is that I think Marco is a high level Associate who is partnered with the Top Bosses of the Outfit and runs a Bookmaking Franchise. He is a tremendous earner and a veryimportant man. So is Dote. However, based upon the evidence presented in rebuttal by Joe Fosco, I have to agree with Joe that Marco and any of his men working for him in his Bookmaking Franchise were NOT made men at least as of 2005.  Maybe Marco got made after 2005  by Johnny  and maybe only a few peoplw know about it. I don’t really know for sure. Bur I can tell you based upon what Joe fosco said, Marco was not made before 2005.  Again, that doesn’t mean he is not a real  important man.  Some of the guys who were made in the past would have gladly traded places  with Marco.  Joe, what is your feeling about my explanation? 

Horsey,  Looking at your Chart, my answer would be something like this: The Elmwood Park Crew is the Dominent Crew but is somewhat divided. It is not as cohesive as the old Taylor St. Crew with Ricca, Mooney, Battagia & Bucciere. I would say that John DiFronzo is the Top Boss of the Extended Elmwood Park Crew.  Pete DiFronzo is Johnny’s personal underboss.  Joe Andriacchi is the Capo within the Extended Elmwood Park Crew but basically does his own thing which is centered more around the North Side.  Al Vena is the Capo of the Grand Ave. Crew.  Solly Cautedella is the  ’ acting ‘  Capo of the Cicero Crew ( that could change if Marcello wins his Appeal.)  Toots Caruso is the Capo of the 26th St. Crew.  There is no official Rust St. Crew anymore. There is no official Chicago Heights Crew any more.  Rush St. is part of Elmwood Park.  Chicago Heights is part of 26th St. There maybe one made guy in the Heights involved in Poker machines who is part of Ciero.  I think Joe’s opinion will be the same.

The Don, nice try but Nick Calabrese was going to go from Chinatown to Marcello’s crew if they both got out at the same time. And Marco was with Turk and Obrien untill their was no one left. The Outfit can extend and place a Made guy wherever theyd like (just ask Solly or Pudgy if you ever see them and their willing to talk).. Remember this was a guy (Marco) with gambling bosses in Cicero in the 1960s and in the Juice Rackets book of 1970 with your ’relative’ you can bet your ass he was MADE. Dont give me this bullshit Don

Just got home. Everyone on here can tell me I’m nuts. But I just got back from a 80th Birthday party in the “Heights”

It threw me for a loop and should probably throw all of you for a loop.
Marco owns a bungalo there. People told me it was his “aunts’, but he owns the place and spends a lot of time there.
p.s. Guzzino is not what everyone assumes in the Heights.

That has some potential.

To Joe, I read your update on Rada; it states that your sources have recently informed you, that Rada was set up by the Chicago Police Department. Can it be possible that you can briefly explain more details on how this set ups works? Perhaps, you can even come up with a future article on what this set up curtails?  When we were kids their were two cops in the neighborhood, named Trancheata and Cardduchi. This guys would once say when they got busting that those two cops set us up! What they were saying is that those two cops would plant weed on them. Oh’ll yeah, they all say that the cops set them up. LOL! Anyway, it sure would be interesting to read an article from you on that part of the Police Procedure! SQE

Marco’s father Gaetano I  believe was from the Heights LOL !! But Marco has property everywhere !

Getting back to my thoery about police setting up people. Does anyone think that the Rosemont Police Department are connected? I heard that they are highly connected.  So getting back with what I updated and sent you Joe. Can it be pssoble that if Joe Fosco can for one reason or another make an emeny somewhere of any given named police officer, that he could be set up? I have in mind the Rosemont area district? Instead of the planned of ect.. caught on tape. How about this? I don’t trust cops! Infact, a particular ex-cop that was fired from the Chicago Police Department was a teacher of Criminal Justice. I must say that, he really told the students what they were up against when they joined up to be a cop. His true life stories made Serpico come to life! 

He taught these young students about the “Grey Area!” He spoke to them telling that , “It is in this Grey Area, that the Chicago Police Department, or any police district has to live in!” The “Grey Area meaning that, you can’t just go busting everybody, and for Pete’s sake, do not bust one of your own buddy’s on the forces family!”

However, if they want, they can create a force of control for each other.  The” Brotherhood” within! If you do not go along with that force and their unethical decisions there can be consequences! A lot of the students transferred to a different teacher. I say “Face Reality! 

Anyway, guys getting back to my point, do you think that it may be possible that unethical police connections can try to arrest Joe Fosco and set him up on false charges, just because they have unethical police power? Of course, this would all be stemming from Joe having articles on Cops and their Finest attributes they have to offer??? SQE

Makes sense…It surprised the hell out of me.

Black Angelo, 

Were you implying below that Marco D’Amico disposed of Butch’s body after he was murdered? 

Marco D’Amico definitely did not pour lighter fluid on the dead body of Butch Petrocelli and ignite it. 

Nick Calabrese did. For years, the feds (and Robert Cooley) were under the impression that Butch had been tortured to death because the erratic nature of his burns and the fact that the car was still very much intact. It made perfect sense when Nick later confessed and testified to the fact that he himself poured lighter fluid on Butch’s already dead body and ignited it but forgot to leave the car windows open sufficiently, creating a situation where the lack of oxygen in the vehicle stifled the flames. Butch’s face was badly burned but not incinerated. 

Horsey, LOL no I was not implying that at all. I know Marco would use a method of tortuing his deliquent juice victims by beating them and or burning them by pouring lighter fluid on their bodies. This would of been in the mid 1960s and 1970s when he was known to practice these torture methods. He used to call it “grease” something. Cant recall what he called it quiet honestly. But he would use the word “grease”.

Speaking of Aleman, he was a PR*ck. When I was a little kid I was at  particular Summer parties that he would attend. He was very rude and when he actually talked, he was a jerk to all the young kids there.

Ugotz472,  The Grand Ave. Crew & The Taylor St. Crews were two different crews. There was a lot of intense rivalry between the two. Giancana didn’t generally like the guys from Grand Ave., in particular Jack Cerone.There were exceptions, Giancana did like Joe Gagliano. Accardo came from Grand Ave. and Mooney wasn’t a huge fan of his either. However, He did like him better than Cerone. Yes, there was definite tension within the Outfit between men from Taylor St. and SOME men from Grand Ave.

Black Angelo,  How do you know Nick Calabrese was going to go with Jimmy Marcello? Did you ask Nick Calabrese or Jimmy Marcello? I respectfully disagree. Jimmy Marcello was paying Nick Calabrese’s family money each month because Marcello is a Capo and was involved in murder with Calabrese.  If Nick never became a stool pigeon, and was lucky enough to get out of prison, he would have gone back to the 26th St. Crew.  Solly D. belongs to the Cicero Crew. It doesn’t matter that he may be up in Lake County. Rocky Infelice operated in Lake County. He and his men still belonged to the Cicero Crew. Pudgy Matassa belongs to Elmwood Park because the North Side Rush st. Crew doesn’t exist anymore. When a man is Made into a crew, he stays with that crew for life. I was told this information on more than one occasion. It came right from the Horse’s mouth.  The only way he wouldn’t, would be if the Crew doesn’t exist anymore. Made men are sent sometimes somewhere else for a reason, but that doesn’t mean they switch Crews. Tony Spilotro was sent to Las Vegas, but he still belonged to Grand Ave. I’m not giving you bullshit and I don’t know why you take the Marco discussion so personally.  Nobody is saying Marco is not important. However, I do not believe Marco was made before 2005. Now, maybe after 2005 Marco got made into the Elmwood faction of John DiFronzo and that’s why he turned down Cicero. I don’t really know and frankly it’s not worth arguing over. I know Joe Fosco agrees with me about Made men staying with the Crew they are made into for life unless the Crew ceases to exist. Don’t you think Mike Magnaficchi wishes he was in a different crew?  

I dont take the Marco discussion to personally. But on principle I do not like when people defy conventional wisdom or flip flop on their own statements. And its like a salad bar with any informant you “take what you want” to believe from any beefer or informant… Nick Calabrese: For Instance do you believe he was going to leave his Chinatown crew for Marcello’s Melrose Park (Cicero Ext) crew ? (I guess you don’t). Do you believe him when he says Jimmy Marcello is Made ? I personally on the streets never heard anybody talking about the 1983 making ceremony. Of course now its seen as gospel… that Nick Calabrese was Made with his brother, Jimmy Marcello, Rocky I and others and that sleeper (at the time) Al Tornabene officiated it. Some on here (who have big egos) will say of course that happen ! I knew about that before Nick Calabrese testified to that ! And I say bullshit ! The same thing with Joe Fosco we can throw him in the category of Anti-Outfit crusaders in the same mold as a Bob Cooley, Nick Calabrese, Frank Calabrese jr., Bj Jahoda, Frank Cullotta. And their is a portion of things I will not believe that Joe says (like some of the other Anti-Outfit crusaders) or think that he is misinformed. The Don, just like you dont believe a Nick Calabrese on all he says. I personally never heard Willie Messino say Marco was not Made… so your right Don if you dont hear it from the horses ass you cant believe it or you can question it… or at least say Nick C or Joe Fosco is not a liar but misinformed. I mean did you hear Willie Messino say any of this ? And I have a source this/close to Fat Sarno and he said Sarno never offered Marco anything and he was well aware of his status as well as his crew members Sponge’s status (who is a MadeGuy). And Pudgy is Solly’s personal assistant as of 2011. We can agree Solly is with Cicero and Pudgy is with Elmwood Park now. The new guy Marco brought in belongs to Cicero also. It seems from the surface Marco is over Cicero and Elmwood Park and is acting as Johnny DiFronzo’s buffer or eyes and ears on the street (hense the term acting boss). Pudgy is all over the place (like Al Tornabene used to be) and “then some”… he’s in Cicero, Lake County, Westchester, River Grove, Elmwood Park, Melrose Park, this buffet, that buffet, this restaurant that restaurant… Spotted on Rush Street talking and you guessed it eating. Boating with Moe, Marco and Solly in Williams Bay. You name it… It’s crazy ! But you’d never know (according to you) that Pudgy and Solly are in different factions/crews. Also Pudgy (Elmwood Park) served as Marco’s driver in the early 90s (Marco got a DUI in 1989 and from what I hear Johnny DiFronzo didn’t want anything to happen to Marco or for him to go to state prison on some charges such as “drinking and driving” or what not so Johnny DiFronzo assigned Pudgy to be Marco’s personal driver and assistant). Pudgy also served as Jimmy Marcello’s (Cicero) driver/confidant/chauffeur from 2003 – 05. By the way the same factors that played into Pudgy going to Elmwood Park are the same factors that played into Marco going to Elmwood Park also. Deaths and Outfit remobilization. I personally “respectfully” disagree with you and Joe Fosco on the issue of Marco not being “Made”. And I respectfully disagree with you Don that Nick Calabrese was b.s-ing when he said Marcello told him he could leave his brothers crew and join him. I think you personally (Don) know alot about the Outfit and the inner workings and the history. The same with Fosco. I just disagree “whole heartedly” on some certain issues. But I agree with you on Charlie Sheen, I imagine he wishes he was in a different crew. But Andriacchi from what i hear is far out the loop (pertaining to Outift affairs) but still collects big time money from this and that said racket. Johnny DiFronzo would be to if it was not for his brother Joey or Marco keeping him abreast.

 Chitowndago, You’re right. However, I do believe Guzzino is a made guy, but he answers to 26th st. If you read my recent posts over the weekend, I’ve had it confirmed that the Outfit has downsized from 6 Street Crews to 4. In fact it’s been that way for over 10 years. The Street crews are Elmwood Park, Grand Ave., Cicero & 26th St. Elmwood Park is the Dominent and is somewhat divided between DiFronzo and Andriacchi with Johnny being the Top Boss and Andriacchi being the Capo within the Extended Elmwood Park Crew doing basically his own thing on the North Side.  That doesn’t mean there is no activity in the South Suburbs. There is Outfit activity but the few Made guys down there and there soldiers are part of the 26th St. Crew or the Cicero Crew depending upon their particular activity. 

Black Angelo,  I too enjoy talking with you. I think you’re sharp and know a lot of details about events.  I think Marco is an important man.  After Marco got out in 2005, maybe he did get made.  I’m not saying that is impossible.  I just don’t think he was made in the old days after further thought and discussion with Joe Fosco.  There are certain things that do remain constant within the general make up of the Outfit.  A man would never be trusted by anyone if he wanted to transfer to another Crew.  It’s like a marriage for life.  My relative used to say once in awhile, ” I’m Elmwood Park to the the day I die. “  However, guys from different crews work together on different things that come up which is actually encouraged within the Outfit especially if there’s money to be made from the partnership. For example, Joe Gagliano worked in partnership with Chuckie English in the juke box racket years ago. To the common Outfit observer, no one would really know that Gagliano was with Elmwwod Park and English was with Taylor St.  On another note, there was an arguement between Marco & Pudgy in 1989 about something on the North Side. It seemed as though Pudgy won the arguement. Do you know what I’m talking about? I personally never heard of Pudgy being Marco’s driver? Maybe it was temporary. Pudgy was part of the North Side Rush St. Crew before 1990 and was actually a driver for his Uncle Mike Glitta. The North Side Rush St. Crew pretty much ceased to exist as a seperate Crew after the Boss, Vince Solano died. I believe Pudgy and at least one other made man then went under the Elmwood Park umbrella at that time during the mid 1990′s.  You know Black, Marco’s importance was elevated after 2005 when he got out.  A lot of what you say about Marco’s importance is really directed towards 2005 to the present if you stop and think about it. 

The Don, actually Marco was involved in more rackets before he went away in 1994. He has scaled back his “racket activity” greatly. For Instance up to 1994 he was involved in the Juice Rackets and overseeing Home Invasions for some 30 years (up to that point). As of 2005 Marco is just the overseer of Bookmaking, Gambling, Juke Box machines and overseas gambling amongst being the eyes and ears for Johnny DiFronzo. And it was a forgone conclusion on the streets that Marco was going to be an important player on the streets imminent of his release from Federal Custody in 2005. And Pudgy was Marco’s driver (which is why they are so close to this day). This is where FBI surveillance of Marco and Pudgy comes into play. And that “alleged” argument was about some machines on the Southside and where did you get that information from Don ? an INFORMANT. So your willing to believe that informant on that issue but not on Nick Calabrese about what he says about each and everything. By the way 7 informants where set to testify at Marco’s 1995 sentencing hearing, that he was in fact a Made Man. Do you believe them ? And years after that Nick Calabrese was debreifed in 2002/03 and told the FBI that Marco was a MadeGuy and High Ranking to boot. The Don do you get what i’m trying to say. As Horsey Fart stated last week what would they have to gain from that ? All these Informants willing to say Marco was Made. And remember I asked Joe Fosco (a while back) about how Jimmy I was Made (because I know for a fact he was not Made pre-1978). He said sometime after 1990. Jimmy I was Made out of 26th street and Jimmy LaPietra sponsored him for Membership. So Wild Bunch guy belongs to 26th street. But operates out of Cicero ? Jimmy I should have been MADE out of Cicero. Right? According to your theory on how the Outfit operates. Actually all Jimmy I gives a shit about these days is running his trucking company. He deals with 26th street guys all the time though. Your thoughts on the questions I asked. Thank You.

Black Angelo,  I didn’t say I believed the informant. I couldn’t even remember where I heard that story. After reading your posting, I went back and found it. You’re right, it came from a  confidential  informant which of course may not be accurate. However, when it comes to Nick Calabrese, I do believe him. Everything he said made sense to me. He said he ‘THOUGHT’ Rocky Infelice was at the murder scene of the Spilotro Brothers, HE WASN’T SURE. That was really the only thing that was inaccurate. There were a lot of guys there so he could have been mistaken about one fucking guy. If Jimmy I was made into the 26th St. group, ( which I do agree ), then he belongs to the 26th St. group. It doesn’t matter if he operates out of Cicero. I never said where a guy operates out of means that’s where he was made. Frank Calabrese sometimes operated out of Elmwood Park, but he was with the 26th st. group. Now, forget all that and TELL ME where Nick Calabrese said Marco was made.  I don’t remember ever reading Nick Calabrese saying Marco was made. Show me.

The Don, I dont believe Rocky I was their but do believe LT was their via a good source (and in the basement). Part of the reason he probably fled Chicago in 2006. And Nick Calabrese stated Marco was one of 60 made members (250-300 soldiers non made) at his original debriefing in 2002. He was put as a direct threat to Nick C. When Tornabene died he told Federal Investigators Marco had replaced him as consigliere… but most investigators believed Marco in 2006 had already been in a postion of power. And remember (according to you) the Outfit does not play ‘musical chairs’… Jimmy I was never with 26th street in the 1970s. He was with Joe Nick (Harry Aleman) and out of Cicero (they brought him in to the fold). But 26th street made him. Just like Marco was with Turk (Cicero). It doesn’t matter who Made him (rather it was Turk in the 1970s or DiFronzo in the 90s) Guys move around (but their has to be a direct good reason and permission to do so). As you just essentially admitted Jimmy I did. If anything Fat Sarno should of Made him in the early 90s (If your willing to believe Sarno was Made or in a postion of power to do so at the time). Trust me jimmy I came up under Cicero but was Made via 26th street.

Black Angelo,  Can you direct me to the document where Nick Calabrese said Marco was made. I know about the 60 made guys thing because I heard it repeated on the news. Tell me where the document is so I can read the debriefing. Thanks.

Dear Mob…,
No and no. Thanks for humoring us with your silliness.

I dont have access to the debriefing but have read it. Joey DeVita is on it also. There was a 2010 flow chart made based on Nick’s debriefing. Also their was 7 informants set to testify that Marco was in fact a Made member. I will get back to you in the next couple of hours or tomorrow morning why Marco balked at going forward with that sentencing hearing… their is a very good reason. Explain Cicero Guy Jimmy I being Made by 26th street ?

Regardless of what Marco’s role is, there are maybe a dozen of active made guys left, meaning guys who are not in prison or “out of it.” I’ll bet no one on here can list more than a dozen guys. If Marcello wins his appeal maybe things will turn around for the organization. But by my humble estimation, the Outfit is almost as bad as Philly where the handful of made guys who are left are all under indictment. If there’s another made guy who flips, there’s no question that that will be the end of it. Scalise, Sarno and Fratto all have the opportunity to be that guy. I wonder what will happen.  

The Don and others,

ONLY FBI AGENTS HAVE READ NICK’S DEBRIEFINGS. THEY ARE NOT PUBLIC INFORMATION YET. 
What you’re talking about are 302′s, and, unless leaked, 302′s are not public information until after the interviewee is deceased, according to the Freedom of Information Act. (There has not been a mafia 302 leaked since the Smoking Gun obtained Sammy Gravano’s and published them on their site.)302′s contain information that MIGHT be submitted as evidence at a trial. The portions that actually end up being submitted as evidence become public information WHILE the informer is still alive. All those Family Secrets transcripts, etc., on the DOJ website were submitted at trial. The FBI document that ABC7/Goudie obtained that detailed the ’83 making ceremony was NOT a 302 form. It was a piece of evidence submitted at trial that had a specific name (“Tornabene”) REDACTED (blacked out) because he was not included in the indictment.

If you’ve ever submitted requests under FOIA, and you receive it with certain info redacted, you’ll see how easy it is to extrapolate the missing information.

Chi-town, I am interested in seeing what you have on the Chicago hts guys, can you post it?

Who made the flow chart based on Nick’s debriefing? Where is it located? Where can I see it? 

Thanks Horsey,  So Black Angelo could not have read the Debriefing. For that matter, noone could have read the Debriefing. Horsey, have you seen anywhere in all those transcripts where Nick Calabrese said that Marco was made and there was a flow chart to go along with it? I’ve never seen it.

To answer your question: no, I don’t remember reading where Nick Calabrese said that Marco was made with a flow chart to go along with it. I think Black Angelo may be confusing it with something else. (I actually remember seeing the name “Joey Devita” on some type of flow chart within the last 10-years, but it wasn’t something that had Nick Calabrese’s name attached to it.) I’m not trying to discredit Black Angelo. A lot of people confuse “evidence” (e.g., transcripts, etc.) with FBI 302 documents.  I used to be confused by it, myself. 

I should probably clarify something that I wrote concerning evidence, too. Not ALL the Family Secrets evidence is available on the DOJ Operation Family Secrets page. Steve Warmbir/Suntimes covered the trial extensively and mentioned a “secret” segment of the Marcello bros. prison tapes where James discusses (in code) the Chiaramonti murder. Warmbir said that in it, Marcello expresses disappointment with how it was carried out, but wasn’t upset by the fact that Hatch was killed. (I’m not sure why it came up at the trial, especially since the information about the Hatch being shot was not pertinent to anything in Family Secrets.)

The “threat assessment list” was only SAID to be list of current made members of the Outfit, a few non-Italian associates, notwithstanding. I am sorry I can’t remember specifically, but I think it was reported as such by a reporter quoting an unnamed source within the government. Take it for what it’s worth.

Prove Jimmy I came up under Cicero. Also, I said MADE GUYS CAN’T PLAY MUSICAL CHAIRS. So, once Jimmy I was made into the 26th St. Crew, he stays there for life UNLESS HIS CREW CEASES TO EXIST BECAUSE OF ATTRITION. Now, before a guy is ever made, it’s possible he may work as a soldier for one crew and maybe work for another Crew. That is possible. Spizzirri brothers are an example. However, after a guy is MADE into a crew, he stays there for life. You know damn well  Jimmy I wasn’t MADE into the Cicero Crew and then decided to switch to the 26th St. Crew. There’s a difference between when a guy is a soldier and from when he proves himself and is then made. You’re smart. You know the difference. Stop trying to purposely confuse the issue between guys ‘coming up’ and made guys.

Yes, that happened, you’re correct. But I think that Marcello saying that and it actually happening are two very different things. When Marcello was incarcerated with Nick, he was scared Nick was thinking about flipping, so he was being as nice and as appreciative to him as possible. The $4,000 per month came next.

Horsey, thank you for clarifying the difference between a 302 and evidence released lol. This is Chicago (and sh*t happens) I most defiantly read something (with my own eyes) that had Marco pegged as a Made Member. I honestly have no idea if my source obtained a 302… He did not say and I did not care in all honesty. But part of the reason Marco backed down in his 1995 sentence hearing from having 7 informants prove he was a Made Member of the Outfit is because it was not worth having a bunch of names come to public light or public record who was Made in the Outfit. These where not only members Marco was Made with who would have been exposed but also informants that was purportedly supposed to say Marco in fact sponsored two guys for membership in the years between 1991 – 94 (Donny Scalise and Ricky Borelli). My source tells me there is no way in HELL Johnny DiFronzo was going to have Marco going to prison and not be a MadeGuy in the Outfit (if in fact he was not already Made). It was known in 1990 that Marco and his crew would be indicted (because Cooley was officially named a stool pigeon in 1989). I’m told a MadeGuy such as Marco trying to make the Gov’t prove he is a Made Member is a practice a lot of Outfit guys do in Trial or Sentencing (because most ceremonies are supposed to be secret and not known to the public). Jimmy Marcello did the same thing at his trial in 2007. He claimed he was not made. He was claiming hearsay. And Joey Lombardo even took an ad out in the Chicago Tribune upon the release of his prison stint saying he was not a MadeGuy in the blood and dagger sense. But I think Marco “knowingly” did a smart thing by backing off demands 7 informants prove he was a Made Member. He kept a lot of things out of “public record”. The FBI defines a “made member” as quote verbatim… “a person who has participated in a formalized ceremony and has the right to share in the profits of the Chicago Outfit. A made member has the right to run his own street crew; to make loans known as “juice loans”; to extort “street tax” from local businesses and from gamblers and bookmakers; and to otherwise take control of gambling and bookmaking in his area. A made members is also entitled to the respect of other made members.” Marco has been doing all that since 1970. He formed his own crew in 1978/79.

I thought you was trying to confuse the issue. When Johnny DiFronzo took over as # 2 in the Outfit in 1986. Marco and his crew belonged to his West Side Group. He didnt belong to Lee Magnifichi or Joe Andriacchi. Their was never any Musical Chairs with Marco. He just got swallowed in as what happened to MadeGUY Pudgy Matassa in 1992.

This is the most accurate flow chart on the Outfit in years (seen below). Their is some errors but overall it is very accurate. I would say 110 % from the Street Boss on up all those 17 individuals are all Made Men in The Outfit. I’m suspect about Mike Magnifichi being Made though. I was impressed they had Pudgy over Fat Sarno. Pudgy was Jimmy Marcello’s driver for a reason in 2004 (he was grooming him). This idea that Sarno or Cicero was offering guys to be made is erroneous. And Al Vena is probably the Grand Ave (West Side Capo) over Joe Kong only because of Albie’s close relationship with out of the loop boss Andriacchi. Based on my sources and other evidence I’ve seen I would say Marco is Top Boss of the Outfit. DiFronzo acting in a Paul Ricca role as “Chaiman of the Board”. I’d say 20 to 25 of the “soldiers” on the flow chart are definatly Made. None of the accociates are Made. And some members on that flow chart are already deceased. Some will not agree with ths chart because of Ulterior Motives or they have their own charts they wanna make. I understand this. But overall I think this is a very accurate chart on the current day Outfit with some minor changes.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7034/outfit.gif

Correction I meant it is erroneous to believe Sarno was offering to Make members in the Outfit. Cicero still would of been offering but it would of been through Pudgy (not Fat Sarno). Also the only associate I saw on their that possibly could of been made as a sleeper would of been Guy D’amico… some how he went his whole life in the unions without being kicked out *he died last year though*… also Pudgy and Marco’s right hand is not on their Moe and hie would be Made in the Outfit in the last 5 years.

Pudgy is a made guy with Elmwood Park. He is not in the Cicero crew.

Well,  First of all this chart came from some guy named Burnstein. This chart has nothing to do with Nick Calabrese. The chart is very inaccurate. Joe Ferriola was never the former Boss. Whenever, Joe Fosco and I see this, we don’t bother looking at the rest of it.  This is another example of some guy that has a little bit of knowledge about the Outfit and is trying to make out a chart similar in structure to the New York Mafia. The Chart does not reflect the whole basis of the Structure of the Outfit, which is by STREET CREWS. It should be laid out in a Street Crew Structure. There should be 4 big boxes if you want to talk about the Outfit in 2011. Each box should have the Name of the Street Crew on Top of It. The Top box should have Elmwood Park on top of it.  DiFronzo should be in the box at the Top with the other Elmwood Park Men below him within the Box. The other 3 boxes should be below Elmwood Park and should be labeled Cicero, Grand Ave. & 26th st. This guy is so stupid, he is listing some dead people and he doesn’t know the difference between made guys and soldiers. Sure some of the names are accurate, but the entire layout and some of the descriptions are terrible. I think Joe Fosco would laugh at this chart.  I think Burstein’s chart is even worse than Roemer’s chart. Should I continue to hold back, or should I say what I really think about it?   

How right you are, Don. This chart was made by a guy named Scott M. Burnstein (from Michigan) who wrote a 100-pg. book a few years ago about the Detroit Partnership. He thinks he knows a lot about the Outfit because he attended law school in Chicago. Last year he co-authored a book with Mooney’s nephew about the Outfit. The content in that book seemed to be half lifted from online forums and half invented to make for an interesting narrative. That is my opinion, anyway.  I believe Burnstein learned of Joe and his sources and emailed him a link to this chart a year or so ago. Joe put the link in his threads, and there have been at least a few debates on its accuracy in the past. I don’t think it’s very accurate either, though Burnstein sure went to a lot of trouble to insert tiny pictures of everyone in the little boxes. (The box for Joe Kong contains a photo of a different person, I think.) 

Burnstein used to host an extensive online mafia discussion board with hundreds of members. A lot of the more tech savvy members would produce these elaborate charts of their hometown (favorite) mafia groups as a way to bolster their arguments against their critics. Burnstein favored the Midwestern groups, and it seems like this chart was an attempt to make the Outfit appear to be bigger than it is to make an impression on other users.

The Don, in addition to the Joe Ferriola error, someone (maybe Joe) also pointed out the fact that Burnstein included Tony Spavone on the chart. In addition to being very funny, the inclusion of Spavone calls into question the credibility of the entire chart.

Every time someone someone from Chicago is arguing with someone from New York online about whose hometown mafia group is the toughest, the Chicago person will invariably post that chart because it makes the Outfit look as big or bigger than the larger New York groups. The chart is pretty slick looking and professional and contains a lot of names. People who don’t know any better are taken in by it. 

The chart also has Sol C. under Leo & Bruno Caruso in the 26th St. Crew.

https://sites.google.com/site/americancrimescene/

Teets here.  Once again, obviously.  Joe, do you know who Anthony Accardo’s driver  was out in Palm Springs? I heard that one time Lee Mags went out West to chew the rag with Accardo about something. But when Lee arrived Tony Accardo was under the weather, so Lee  went “out on the town” with Accardo’s driver and some B-team wiseguys in from San Diego instead. (The San Diego wiseguys were IN AWE of Lee.)  One of Chris “Mr. Cicero” Petti’s guys started in on some ladies with some crass jokes and offbase comments, unfortunately. Lee (always the gentleman, LOL) issued a warning to this chucklehead. A few minutes later, the smart ass regretfully started up again, and Tony Accardo’s driver started to warn the guy to pipe down, but Lee interrupted him. He said, “only warn a guy ONCE.” Then, Lee got up, kicked the guy’s chair out from under him, and—regretfully—pushed a giant cactus that was potted in a garden container SMACK on top of the clown. (Then, Petti tried to stick the guy’s finger into a light socket, but Lee told him to cut it out, after all.) The wise acre’s nickname after that was “porcupine,” unfortunately. There’s also a story about how Lee and Marco “the Mover” went into a Chicago “honkytonk” for a cocktail, a few smokes, and a little “business” discussion (LOL). A few made guys who were known to stomp some major ass (from time to time), came into the joint and said hi to Lee. Then one of them started in on Marco “the Mover” D’Amico. Marco put up with their teasing for about five minutes (it was all he could bear), and then dashed out of the joint in a very upset fashion, unfortunately. Lee then arose from his seat, grabbing one the made guys by the sleeve of his jacket. He explained that Marco brought in a lot of money so to LAY OFF him next time. They all looked at each other and started laughing because they were bookmakers and thought Lee Magnafichi  was making a ‘booking making pun’ when he said “lay off,” as in laying off bets (LOL). Unknown to me, Lee had the reputation of being a prankster at times, so it especially comes as no surprise that Lee had the guys rolling on the floor (LOL).

Joe, what is going to come out first the Lee “Mags” Magnafichi article or the Sam “Momo” Giancana article? No offense, but you promised the Lee article first, unfortunately.

Keep on keepin’ on (LOL)

Teets

Teets here for comment #2 (LOL).

The Don, I love your stories about made and possibly made guys. Especially when you tell stories about when they unfortunately have to get a little rough (occasionally). Can you enlighten me why Lombardi was know as The Beast? None other than Joseph Fosco stated that there is a Lombardi story in Captive City by one Ovid Demaris, so I speedily checked it out and saw that his nickname was known as The Beast. Thank you.

Black, let it go.  Marco is important.  Horsey what chance do you give Jimmy Marcello on appeal?  Teets keep on keeping on.

Roemer’s two charts had Marco as a lieutenant over Johnny DiFronzo (1983) and he seemed to have Joe Nick as a major capo in control of all of the Westside (Cicero, Elmwood Park, Melrose Park) a la FiFi Bucceri in the 1960s. And in his 1990 chart he had Marco as a Capo. I hypothesis when Roemer did his charts he was gaining his knowledge from inside FBI information and informants. He never has Joe Nick as a Top Boss because when he did his charts Obrien was alive (1983) and then Joe Nick was dead (1990)… obviously when he wrote his book he than said Joe Nick was a top boss in the period of 1986 -89 which was not true. He was the # 3 man in the Outfit at that time behind Black Sam and Johnny DiFronzo. And I don’t care where Burnstein is from his chart is overall good. I’ll give him more of the benefit of the doubt now knowing he is not a Chicago guy. I have a strong feeling if we put together a chart the general public would be highly confused (but not because it would be wrong). I look at this from the Outside looking in. Most people don’t read this site or understand the things we understand with the Elmwood Park Extended, or the Cicero Extended. People know Johnny DiFronzo will be at the very top over a Andriacchi or Damico (that‘s easy). Most people know Pudgy is a made guy (but belonging to Elmwood Park… they don’t know what that means) they do know he runs Cicero or Jimmy Marcello’s old Melrose Park/ Cicero Extended crew or is the caretaker of his old rackets. It would just be highly confusing to the normal average citizen. And the average Bridgeport law abiding citizen knows Toots is the King down their and that Fred Barbara, Ray T and Tommy DiPazza own everything in site lol. They dont care about anything else outside of that.On a side note: One thing Cooley does get “partially” right in his book is he has Johnny DiFronzo as a Top Boss in 1986 (he fails to mention Black Sam) but on page 225 he just has Joe Nick as Cicero’s Top Boss (and nothing more) and this is in the summer of 1988 (when referring to Ferriola) when most of the general public figured Joe Nick was boss based on newspaper accounts and what not. So I’ll give Cooley credit for that. And Horsey don’t compare Chicago to Philly ever again. The Outfit is still heavily involved in Bookmaking, Gambling, Juice/Loansharking, the Poker Machine racket, Politics, Corruption as well as being involved in a litany of legitimate business or owning the property the legitimate business operates on… as well as offshore gambling which the Outfit still has a monopoly on. Philly or most of the New York Families only have half of that. But Philly’s crime family is a JOKE now.

He definitely has a chance. No physical evidence tying him to any of the crimes–that’s something.  He also has two outstanding attorneys. His problem is going to be the fact that Nick Calabrese was an outstanding witness. Most everything (if not absolutely everything) he said was corroborated by fist-rate surveillance. If it can be shown that the voice lineup (in which Marcello’s voice was identified by Michael Spilotro’s daughter) is unreliable, and that he and Mickey were not talking about the Spilotro murders when they discussed “Zhivago,” then he walks, the way I see it.

Guido, I just wanna make sure people get things right. I don’t want to read a book someday and they have Marco as a important, earner but “un-Made guy” with a 50 year criminal history who happens to be in Johnny DiFronzo‘s inner circle. Who also happens to be full blooded Italian. Or have someone thinking that Tony Dote is laughable. I’ll instantly put the book down (I won’t even read the book, let alone buy it). It will be like reading one of Roemer’s bullshit books and him saying Dyno (Mad Sam) was never Made because of this or that or that it was decided by bosses he was to “erratic” to be Made. BULLSHIT ! Come to think of it … if it wasn’t such public knowledge now or gospel that Black Sam got Hatch his button. Know one would believe Chiaramonti was a MadeGuy.. For the same reasons Roemer and Fosco don’t believe certain guys are Made “The erratic argument or alcohol abuse non sense arguement.” I’m here to set the Marco record straight. He is a MadeGuy. And there is OVERWHELMING evidence to prove he is Made. The evidence (mainly hearsay) presented to say Marco is not made is quite frankly laughable. Marco is Made. End of discussion.

Black, you’ve made your stance known is all I meant.  Hatch was one scary mother, I can tell you that.  What do you think Jimmy was upset about that Horsey mentioned, the fact that it was done in public?  

Horsey, sound analysis as usual.  I don’t think he gets out.  Whats he looking at for time?

You damn right I have sources. And photos to back it up to. And where did you hear that Marco was loosing his hearing. Or here about a new guy on the block named Moe… Right here from me and not anywhere else online. And if you knew anything about Marco you’d know he’s ”highly” secretive (one of the reasons Johnny DiFronzo loves him). If something is “favorable” towards Marco I have no clue what your talking about. Marco does not want anyone to know he is Made.

Teets,  Thank you. Concerning Ovid Demaris, I don’t know where he came up with ‘ The Beast.’ Unless he was referring to the the way Lombardi could behave when angered. His real nick name on the street was ‘ Pretty Boy ‘ because of his slicked back hair and general handsomeness. Lombardi respected Lee Magnaficchi very much and said he was more of a powerhouse than what people would think. Lee was also a very tough guy as you know. I think Lombardi tried to pattern himself at least a little bit like Lee. Lombardi came up with Lee, Joey A., Willie, Johnny etc. Lombardi’s favorite move when angered was to choke someone into submission. He should have really been called ‘ The Choker.’ He also is very loyal to John DiFronzo. He once said ‘ If there was a fire in a building where Johnny was located, I would go in there and either we both would come out alive together or we would both die together in the building. ’

From what I hear Jimmy did not like the way it was done and or why ? One thing about Hatch he may have been crazy, but he listened to his bosses. Johnny DiFronzo should of had a sit down with him before going the Knocked Down route.

The whereabouts or what happend to LT (Marcello’s other associate) i’ll refrain from talking about that right now.

 (This was my reply below to some douche bag named “Out of Town Mob Watcher” who thinks I get my sources from other places online or books LOL and that I‘m very favorable to Marco DAmico and Solly DeLaurentis)　You damn right I have sources. And photos to back it up to. And where did you hear that Marco was loosing his hearing. Or here about a new guy on the block named Moe… Right here from me and not anywhere else online. And if you knew anything about Marco you’d know he’s “highly” secretive (one of the reasons Johnny DiFronzo loves him). If something is “favorable” towards Marco I have no clue what your talking about. Marco does not want anyone to know he is Made. 　I might add in addition Marco has been “highly secretive” since the 1960s. His only 3 vices is he likes to gamble, fight and drink (big deal, what Italian doesn’t) but he is NOT a TALKER. If he was Made in 1970 or 1990 he would not tell you (maybe Johnny DiFronzo, Tony Dote, Sponge and a few others know). But You would just have to put the clues together yourself.　I also might add to that it was “no coincidence” that Frank Calabrese Sr, Jimmy Marcello, and Marco D’Amico (the 3 guys with the biggest crews) all ended up at the same prison together at the same time. News Flash: All of them where being watched like a friggin hawk via surveillance. They wanted those 3 to conspire together or talk. They even tried to have Marco and Jimmy be cellmates together when Jimmy transferred in from Pekin (Marco refused, not because he doesn’t like Jimmy (they’re actually friends) but because he knew they where being ’HEAVILY” watched). Jimmy and Frank couldn’t help themselves and talked a lil to much (but at least they did it with heavy code). 　The Feds wanted Marco to talk about Johnny DiFronzo or his (Marco’s and Johnny’s) on going criminal enterprise on the streets so they could indict him (Marco) again and or Johnny on RICO. I’m told Johnny DiFronzo was “very” impressed the Feds could get nothing off of Marco. But not surprised because he in fact knows how smart and secretive Marco really is.   Marco I’m told was almost boring to hear talking in his raspy thick Chicago accent about much of nothing. Marco didn’t as much as “itch” his nose while in prison (and especially in the visiting room). Chuck Goudie of ABC7 fame said Peter DiFronzo is his brothers most trusted advisor/lieutenant. TRUE. But anyone “in the know” knows “The Mover” is “the Man” on the streets for Johnny DiFronzo. Chuch Goudie knows this lol.. Why do you think he asked all those questions about Marco to Johnny.

  (This was my reply below to some douche bag named “Out of Town Mob Watcher” who thinks I get my sources from other places online or books LOL and that I‘m very favorable to Marco DAmico and Solly DeLaurentis)You damn right I have sources. And photos to back it up to. And where did you hear that Marco was loosing his hearing. Or here about a new guy on the block named Moe… Right here from me and not anywhere else online. And if you knew anything about Marco you’d know he’s “highly” secretive (one of the reasons Johnny DiFronzo loves him). If something is “favorable” towards Marco I have no clue what your talking about. Marco does not want anyone to know he is Made.  I might add in addition Marco has been “highly secretive” since the 1960s. His only 3 vices is he likes to gamble, fight and drink (big deal, what Italian doesn’t) but he is NOT a TALKER. If he was Made in 1970 or 1990 he would not tell you (maybe Johnny DiFronzo, Tony Dote, Sponge and a few others know). But You would just have to put the clues together yourself. I also might add to that it was “no coincidence” that Frank Calabrese Sr, Jimmy Marcello, and Marco D’Amico (the 3 guys with the biggest crews) all ended up at the same prison together at the same time. News Flash: All of them where being watched like a friggin hawk via surveillance. They wanted those 3 to conspire together or talk. They even tried to have Marco and Jimmy be cellmates together when Jimmy transferred in from Pekin (Marco refused, not because he doesn’t like Jimmy (they’re actually friends) but because he knew they where being ’HEAVILY” watched). Jimmy and Frank couldn’t help themselves and talked a lil to much (but at least they did it with heavy code).  The Feds wanted Marco to talk about Johnny DiFronzo or his (Marco’s and Johnny’s) on going criminal enterprise on the streets so they could indict him (Marco) again and or Johnny on RICO. I’m told Johnny DiFronzo was “very” impressed the Feds could get nothing off of Marco. But not surprised because he in fact knows how smart and secretive Marco really is.  Marco I’m told was almost boring to hear talking in his raspy thick Chicago accent about much of nothing. Marco didn’t as much as “itch” his nose while in prison (and especially in the visiting room). Chuck Goudie of ABC7 fame said Peter DiFronzo is his brothers most trusted advisor/lieutenant. TRUE. But anyone “in the know” knows “The Mover” is “the Man” on the streets for Johnny DiFronzo. Chuch Goudie knows this lol.. Why do you think he asked all those questions about Marco to Johnny.  I also might add to that it was “no coincidence” that Frank Calabrese Sr, Jimmy Marcello, and Marco D’Amico (the 3 guys with the biggest crews) all ended up at the same prison together at the same time. News Flash: All of them where being watched like a friggin hawk via surveillance. They wanted those 3 to conspire together or talk. They even tried to have Marco and Jimmy be cellmates together when Jimmy transferred in from Pekin (Marco refused, not because he doesn’t like Jimmy (they’re actually friends) but because he knew they where being ’HEAVILY” watched). Jimmy and Frank couldn’t help themselves and talked a lil to much (but at least they did it with heavy code).  The Feds wanted Marco to talk about Johnny DiFronzo or his (Marco’s and Johnny’s) on going criminal enterprise on the streets so they could indict him (Marco) again and or Johnny on RICO. I’m told Johnny DiFronzo was “very” impressed the Feds could get nothing off of Marco. But not surprised because he in fact knows how smart and secretive Marco really is.  Marco I’m told was almost boring to hear talking in his raspy thick Chicago accent about much of nothing. Marco didn’t as much as “itch” his nose while in prison (and especially in the visiting room). Chuck Goudie of ABC7 fame said Peter DiFronzo is his brothers most trusted advisor/lieutenant. TRUE. But anyone “in the know” knows “The Mover” is “the Man” on the streets for Johnny DiFronzo. Chuch Goudie knows this lol.. Why do you think he asked all those questions about Marco to Johnny.

Joe would you delete this posting and the one above this one. Thank you. The one below is the one I posted but it did not space properly (with the paragraphs). You can keep that one.

Horsey,  The threat assessment list also said Members & Associates. The reason is because they don’t really know the difference all the time. For example, the list I believe had Frank The German on there. He was a high level Associate who was direct with a Boss, Lombardo.

Horsey,  Bingo 100% agreement. If Nick had not become an informant, and he had gotten out of prison, he would still be with the 26th St. Group. Let me translate Marcello further, If Nick had gotten out and kept his mouth shut, Marcello would have been willing to work with Nick on making money together. However, what ever money Nick would have made on his end would have had to be split with his Capo Toots Caruso. So, translated, if Nick had kept his mouth shut Marcello would have made sure Nick was directly involved in the Poker machine distribution in his area with of course, Toots Caruso. That’s the way the Outfit works. If partnerships occur between men in different Crews, the Capo is always involved.  

Dom, I’ve been working on that. I’m going to send it to Joe and let him post it. My best person for the no b.s. truth is actually locked up right now (not related to outfit activities) and I want him to confirm or deny what I have put together. He will be out very soon. I’ve been out of the loop for a little while in the Heights & there have been some major changes I was not aware of until recently.

In 1983, Roemer combined the Cicero Crew & the Elmwood Park Crew together. That’s why it’s twice as big as the rest. Quite a few of the guys listed as soldiers were made guys and should not have been listed differently. Auippa & Cerone should not have been listed all by themselves. He basically was saying that Auippa & Cerone had no crew of there own which is the most stupid thing I ever heard. Acouple of the lietenants were not made guys, especially in the Chicago Heights Box. Marco was never above Johnny DiFronzo. I repeat, never. I could continue but I would run out of space commenting on it’s inaccuracy.

LOL – and we have a lot of space.

Joe,  Could you please take out the word ‘ NOT ‘ in front of the word have. The sentence should read ‘ Quite a few of the soldiers were made guys and should have been listed differently. Thank You. This way it makes sense.

Sounds good. One question maybe you can answer for me, are they controlled by 26th st?

Dom,  I would say yes. There are a few made guys in the South suburbs but I believe they are with the 26th St. Crew. There could be one guy down in that area who is possibly with the Cicero Crew, especially if it involves Poker Machines. I would be curious to see what Chitowndago says about it.

Phillys Crime Family is a disgrace to the American Mafia. They went downhill rapidly 30 years ago when Angelo Bruno got killed. This is exactly what happens when the Top Boss doesn’t have a power base ( His own Crew).

Horsey,  Concerning Nick’s income while he was on the street. I believe he was understating it, since it couldn’t be proven anyway. I do believe he was not a 50% partner with his brother. Frank was definitely the Senior Partner. The way it generally works, for example, is that whatever Fank Senior and Nick were earning had to be split 50% with Angelo LaPietra. Then, Frank and Nick did their split which was probably 60/40 or 2/3 & 1/3 in favor of Frank Senior. This comes after the soldiers are paid their cut for the collections. Also, remember that Frank and Nick had a lot of money buried. Remember the story about Frank and Nick digging up some of the Money and it was rotting and smelled so they poured some cologne on it? Well, not all the money that was buried belonged to Frank Senior. My relative said it belonged to both of them. However, I don’t know the proportions. 

He’s looking at life. I don’t think he gets out either, personally. But there’s a chance.

Some of it probably belonged to Angelo LaPietra, too.

The Don, can I ask what happened between you and your relative? It’s none of my business, of course. (I hope it didn’t have anything to do with ANP.)

Borelli was not a made guy in the early 1990′s.  None of the soldiers working for Marco in the early 1990′s were made guys. They were soldiers who worked for him.  You could make a decent arguement about Marco ( which you have been doing very earnestly, I might add ) but there is no way any of the soldiers working under him were made in the early 1990′s. Chicago is not New York.  If they were, they would have been running their own franchises individually or in partnership. None of those guys were Marco’s partners. Marco was their Boss and they worked for him. Period.

Horsey,  It did not. It happened before ANP. 

Also Jimmy LaPietra when he became skipper of 26th street (in 1986) told Frank Sr to increase Nick’s pay from 3,000 a month to 5,000 a month. This was after the Spilotro killings. And Frank was for sure the “senior” partner in his crew/franchise.

There is a definite chance. I don’t like to see anybody convicted strictly on the word of an informant and somebody saying they heard his voice on a phone. It undermines the whole judicial system. By the way, Horsey, did they ever check the phone records to see if such a call was ever made? However, Marcello probably called from a pay phone so it wouldn’t matter. If you have any more information about the phone calls, please advise. Thank you.

Joe, I moved on from the Marco thing. I know he is Made. And you think he is Not. I can respectfully disagree. The Don is like Mitt Romney with it… flip flopping on what he believes with Marco’s status (relax a joke). Anyhow, I wanna hear about this Lee Magnifichi. I always thought he was two-bit burglar who like Cerone was a “lackey”. In that he had the good fortune of getting close to Cerone. Like Cerone did with Joe B. That is what made Lee a Powerhouse. Nothing more than that. Not sure on his earning ablilites, or if he had a crew. The Bald Eagle liked him and was his gaurdian angle and that was where he got his “swagger”. Tell me if i’m wrong.

Also while we are talking about the Magnafichi. Could you tell me how Michael is doing ? Is he going through a super rough patch ? He has been arrested for shop lifting/ retail theft 4 times in the past 2 years. And just recently earlier this month. What is up with him ? Is he concerned about going back to the state pen ? How is he holding up ? Thank You Joe Fosco

Joe,  You’ve made very few comments in the last week and haven’t responded to a couple of requests. Are you okay? Where are you? Hope to hear from you on the threads. Maybe you’re working on a new article. Anyway, hope all is well.

At least I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. I wasn’t really sure to be honest with you. I heard some of Joe’s arguements and thought one point was really good in particular which hit home for me. So what?  I try to be objective when I’m not real sure about something and I hear some good arguements from both sides. I don’t pretend to know everything right off the bat. Some things are debatable. Not everything in life is immediately black or white.

Dear Black,
Michael is trying to overcome his problems.

done.

Thread Police, FYI I put that their because of how ridiculous it was !!! The Don stated Burnstein/Giancana’s 2010 chart was worst than Roemers. LOL. No chart is worst than Roemers. I was busting balls with the Burnstein/Giancana chart but was really busting balls when I started off that thread talking about Roemer in his bullshit book having Marco as more powerful than Johnny DiFronzo. But that is what Outfit informants do to oustsiders like Roemer they confused the shit out of him and then he runs with it and publishes it in his book. And like I need Roemer to show you or anyone else the evidence that Marco Damico is Made. The Thread Police. Halarious. Have a good night.

End of discussion.

Dear The Don,
In the last week I was delightfully engaged in a romantic tryst (Mr. Tosto will be very disappointed to know it was with a woman), however, it is over now. She returned to her home state.
I am mulling around the Giancana piece. The issue I have is that so much on him exists, I am not confident that the few additional things I know would be smashing. However, I will continue to crank out something reasonable.
Please remind me about the requests that I overlooked. I am sorry.
Rest assured that everything is okay. Thank you.

The Don, I do admit the Marco thing is debatable. Very debatable. And I think I know what point hit home for you per say. Marco “possibly” moving around with his crew from Cicero to Elmwood Park. But you’d have to understand how much money was at stake by having Marco in your extended street crew. I believe Marco was made and switched and it was a one time thing that Johnny DiFronzo did himself. He broke the rules not only because he likes Marco and trust him but pure greed. Marco has brought in multi millions for Johnny. Your thoughts ?

And Joe Fosco, why are you being so vague about Michael Magnafichi now ? Why is he so well known in Oak Brook or by the Oak Brook Police Dept ? Im sort of ticked off Joe Andriacchi is not helping him “financially” ! What in the hell is going on Joe ? Did Michael burn his bridges by talking to you ? Help me out here ? Why is Michael resorting to these desperate measures in Oak Brook ? I hope he hasnt resorted to drugs to fill a void ? Can you answer my questions thank You Joe for your time.

Well, as you seem to know, Michael has more than one shoplifting case out of Oak Brook. Some suspect that Mary Ann Mungo had worked with Oak Brook detectives and/or store security guards to finger him on tapes. I will not be accused of suggesting that Mary Ann used to buy stolen goods from Michael.
I do not know Michael to be addicted to street drugs. I do know that Dr. Giacchino got him hooked on painkillers.
I have no idea what motivates Michael to do whatever he does.
I would not be surprised if some of Michael’s Outfit contacts are a little uncomfortable about him after our interview hit the internet.

Well,  You’re right about about informants confusing Roemer.  Roemer was definitely confused.  The best and most entertaining confusion for me was when Sammy DeStefano told Roemer he wasn’t made and Roemer believed him. To add to the humor, when Roemer went to Dyno’s house one time, his wife maid coffee for Roemer but before he drank it, Dyno pissed in it. Roemer somehow learned about it later. Dyno was a hard core Taylor St. made man direct with Mooney & Ricca. He would have tortured Roemer and then killed him with no hesitation if Mooney or Ricca would have given him the word.

Well,  I hope you’re not heart broken. I bet Tosto is heart broken. Anyway, I believe you have two articles forthcoming. One is about Mooney and the other is about Lee. I would enjoy seeing them both.  

Joe & Black Angelo,  The word on the street ( Melrose Park ) is that Michael is to be avoided completely. I don’t believe he is in any danger. He is what I would say ’ Black Balled. ’ Joey A. can’t do anything for him. Michael should accept the Black Balling and move ahead with his life in a positive way. If I were Michael, I would trust noone in the Outfit and just forget about them completely.

Also,  down on this thread, Black Angelo asked you to remove a duplicate posting. I think that’s it.

Right, however, I am going to leave it. Having a duplicate is no big deal. Thank you.

Maybe a little heartbroken. Yes, I am aware of the two articles in the making. Thank you.

Black Angelo,  If Marco was that valuable ( which he is being a great earner ) why would Carlisi, who took over for Auippa, let Marco go to Elmwood Park and give up a very profitable partnership? It doesn’t make sense rule beaking or not. What would make more sense would be if Marco ALWAYS was with Elmwood Park in one way or another, and then ended up under Johnny after Cerone went away. After all, wasn’t the D’Amico family from Grand Ave.?  Most of the men in the Extended Elmwood Park Crew had their roots in Grand Ave. where they were born and raised. You asked me an honest question as a gentleman, so I’m giving you an honest answer. 

Joe, First off thank you for being honest with me. I feel Andriacchi should help Michael out since he is the one that brought him to the picture to begin with. Michael is an overall good guy… he should of stayed clear of “the Life”. But the money and temptation was too good. Coupled with the fact he was probably trying to be like his dad or live up to him. Then somebody (Andriacchi) pulled the rug out from under him and froze him out. So Michael has resorted to drinking and petty thefts. I know for a fact that most of his monies are gone and its a shame because he was once a millioniare. 

But Joe tell me is it true that Michael refuses to talk about Marco and Solly (DeLaurentis) because he wants them to help him out financially ? Why is he trying to protect Marco ? Isn’t it true he tried to get a juice loan from Marco ? But it was denied. After all Marco did help Rudy Fratto out financially. Please be honest with me and your ANP readers. Thank You for your honesty thus far.

And yes Don the word on the street and especially in Elmwood Park and Melrose Park is to not associate with Mike Magnafichi. I had dinner with one of my sources tonight and their are some guys with “power” in the Outfit that are genuinely worried about Mike. But “they” really dont agree with him talking and bad mouthing the DiFronzo brothers. The Don I agree with 90 % of what you said, but feel Andriacchi is “part” responsible for not allowing Michael to make a honest “criminal” living. Michael has been on a downward spiral since then.

He’s a grown man and made his own choices. But he cant get a loan from the bank (because of his background) and no one will hire him for a job. Sad Story. But it is what it is. Can you answer my questions Joe. Thank You for you honesty thus far. I didnt mean to pry earlier but I had my reasons. Thank You Joe.

Don, You make a valid point but from what i’m told Black Sam was not that greedy of a man (plus he had super earner Jimmy Marcello). Marco was from what i’m told a “free agent” after Turk died. Obrien did not care by 1986. But Marco had a close relationship with Elmwood Park and that regime and with Johnny DiFronzo.

If Turk was alive in 2011 we wouldnt be having this conversation. But Marco grew up in between Grand and Taylor. I believe in the Austin neighborhood. Marco has always belonged to Taylor Street SACs (or is a due paying member till this very day). I believe his grandfather was from the Heights (I would have to double check on that) but was raised like I said in between Taylor and Grand right off the IKE.

He does have close ties to Grand Ave and Taylor. He lived in Cicero (all the 1960s and part of the 70s) and South Barrington (part of the 70s and all of the 1980s). But you do make a valid point.

Yes

And Yes. It’s kind of like a
conglomerate now. That’s why I want to make sure & not post something before I have the facts. The truth is that there really isn’t anything to write a book about what’s happening out there now. What’s more interesting is about who is involved with the little bit that does go on.

Dear Black,
Michael was passed over when Joey A (along with Johnny’s blessings) turned EP’s day-to-day power over to the other faction, which is when it became the dominant faction, again, on the day-to-day stuff. Michael needed to inherit it at that point in order to go on to be the boss that he was inspiring to be all of his adult life. When Joey A made it final that EP was out and the other faction was in (again, of course with DiFronzo’s blessings), Michael’s fate was restricted to that of an ordinary bookmaker, with no chance of climbing the ranks. However, Andriacchi and DiFronzo acted for two different reasons. DiFronzo did not like Michael because of trivial nonsense. I believe some of it was jealously about the preferred treatment that Cerone gave to Michael over everyone else in earlier years. On the other hand, I believe Andriacchi passed Michael over because he truly loved him and did not want to see Michael go to prison for the rest of his life.
Michael refuses to talk about Marco because he loves Marco. He does not love Solly the way he loves Marco, but he has a lot of respect for Solly because of the prison time he did. Marco has helped Michael a few times with money in recent years. Michael would never go to Solly for money, only Marco. You have to remember, Marco will help almost anyone. Whatever you heard about ‘juice’ is off base. Marco would never charge Michael juice. However, I could see Michael presenting a loan deal to Marco as such, with the understanding that Marco would never actually take juice from him.
I do not think Michael has seen Marco since my interview came out.
I have to confess. I did something very irresponsible as a reporter. I released Michael’s interview without his consent. I double-crossed Michael. We were putting the interview together to be published at a time when I could sell it for money. Well, I decided on my own that I was not going to wait. Therefore, I published it and let the chips fall. I believe that publishing the interview protects Michael because if something were to happen to him, the Outfit would melt from the heat the government would put on it. In addition, I calculated that it would alienate him from his Outfit cronies, therefore putting him in a better position to completely turn away at some point in the near future and work with me on a book. You see, I know that Michael is finished in the Outfit, and has been long before I published the interview. However, he probably thinks he would have an opportunity to jump back in (prior to the interview). In other words, I did not cause a loss for him whatsoever, if anything, I am helping him come to terms with reality.

Joe,  You manipulated Michael into being Black Balled. However, one day in the future, Michael will thank you. You were like a Father causing his son to break up with a girl who would only hurt him in the future. The son might be angry with his father now, but 5 years from now he’ll be hugging him. That’s the way I see it.

The Don,
I hope you are right. And, if he ever hugs me, I hope its not with a rope. lol

Small point, but Cerone worked in the Cicero casino’s in his start.  Cicero was ground zero 1920′s-1970′s.  All Outfit guys spent time in town.  Auippa did a special thing having his crew live their.  If not for the MLK civil rights stuff, The town of Cicero would have remained the #1 Outfit town.  Above Elmwood, Melrose and Heights, period.  And Auippa was “given” Cicero by Ricca, because he was very powerful and that was how the Outfit kept peace, not by having a war, a la NY.

You think LT was allowed to disappear, not knocked down.  Right?  He had the money to do that.

You’re right about Ricca giving Cicero to Auippa. Auippa then really developed it. A lot of young guys started working in Cicero. However, my point to Black which he now sees is that once a guy is made into a crew, He stays with that crew for life. It takes a long time in Chicago for a guy to become made. From the time he starts out until the time he is actually made takes years. Associates and sometimes soldiers may float between crews a little here and there, but made guys do not float unless their crew ceases to exist because of attrition. That’s why I think black has a stronger arguement about Marco by saying that AFTER he floated from Cicero to Elmwood Park, then maybe he was made by DiFronzo after Cerone went away. I know Difronzo didn’t make many people, but in the late 1980′s, which was along time ago, if there was one person who did deserve to be made, that person would have been Marco and DiFronzo had the power to do it after Cerone went away.

Agreed.  Tired of the Marco made discussion.  That is the most plausible scenerio, and his handling of his indictment and time plus his following, earning power, etc. didnt hurt his cause either.  The impression and reality is that Marco has Difronzo’s blessing, enough said.

Joe–did you know or ever interact with Bobby Bellavia?  As I understand it, Andriacchi and others still frequent his Grand Ave. restaurant, Bella Notte.  Also, any exposure to the Rockford family?  Guys like Tiger Frisella and Joe Fiorenza?

Finally, do you think Vito Salamone is a mobster, or just an associate?  I know the Suspenzi family of Parkway Bank & Trust and was stupified they got involved with him and the casino BS in Elgin and Rosemont.  I’d love to see you do an article on how many different ways the Outfit tried to get its claws into the Grand Victoria and the Rosemont project.  It has to have a piece of Rivers Casino in Des Plaines…the fact that Dote and others in that town operate so freely is unnerving.    

Joe,

Have you seen or heard from Michael since you posted those interviews and behind the scenes information? Do you know if Michael has encountered the DiFronzos or any other alleged members of the Outfit since the publication of interviews?

Joe, I wonder if is possible that this Nick Radda went to Elmwood Park high school? This picture looks almost identical to the guy with italian flag jacket. It’s pretty damn near close! Near close!!!! 

When I lived in Elmwood Park. I recieved a bee bee gun bullet through my window. This was from the kid that hung with Michael Defillipis JR. outside of my appartment on a daily basis! My cat just jumped down and I just got finished kissing my cat. That kids mother came to house to appologize. That kid grew up and, I believe, instead of bee bee gun bullets, I suspect, the kid may now have real gun bullets Of course, the rest of the gang they hung with must have real guns now a days, as well! This is a true story, and I believe a Criminal Profile should be done on this pack! I will see, to it that this information also gets to the detectives. SQE

Nick Rada spent most of his high school years at Holy Cross in River Grove, Illinois.

Dear HF,
Yes. I have spoken with him many times since. He was not happy, but he is a very understanding person. He wishes I did not do it, but he knows its done and I will not take my articles down unless a jury of 12 (not 6) convinces a judge to order it.
When I covered Rudy’s sentencing, Rudy was outraged to the point that he left his home and located Michael at Roosters Bar In Bloomingdale (the evening of his sentencing date), asking Michael to try to convince me to take the article down. Michael had the nerve to actually attempt to persuade me to take it down. I hung up on him.

My parents were close with his parents. I know his son. I never met Bobby.
Ramone has owned Bella Note for several years now (on Grand). I have had dinner there roughly 100-times between 1997 and 2007.
Vito Salamone is as much a gangster as i am.
Bascarino was the guy who (in my opinion) would have kissed the Daddono family into his shares if Rosemont would have succeeded.

Cerone was a dealer at the old Rock Garden in Cicero. Tony Cap put him there. An Elmwood Park crew was not even thought of then. Jack moved to EP in the late 40s when his home was built.

Horsey,  I did comment on your chart that you set up. Did you see it?  You, my friend, are a good listener and learn quickly. The basic skeleton of your chart is the right idea. I would arrange the four boxes a little differently. I would put the Elmwood Park box on the Top as the Elite faction.  I would make that box the widest because it will contain two subdivisions. John DiFronzo’s made men and a little smaller Joey Andriacchi’s made men. Then right under the Elmwood Park box, I would put the Cicero box. This is the Crew that actually is the Dominent on the Street level. Then below the Cicero Box I would  put the Grand Ave. Box and the 26TH St. box on an equal level side by side. The number of made guys has been reduced from about 60 to 40. In other works 1/3 less. However, some of the made guys alive are not really active because of age, even though they can be called upon to do something, ( You know what I mean )  and a few are at least somewhat deactivated in the Extended Elmwood Park Crew. That really leaves about 30 full time active guys. There are a few guys who are made and report direct to the Top Boss and have done so for years. I’m including them in the estimate. Those guys are usually Union men or a couple of strong political sleepers. Guys like a Romie Nappi or Pat Marcy type. Don’t think the Outfit does not have a couple strong guys like these who report to DiFronzo. They do. The number of soldiers who work under the made guys has been also reduced any where from 1/3 to 1/2.  Same applies for the street associates ‘ who do business with the Outfit.’  This would include Bar owners, Street bookies who are 25% agents etc.  The number of High Level Associates who do business with the Outfit is a little less but not to the same degree as the street man power. Let me know if I lost you or if this all makes sense to you? 

Yes, it was Joey A who pushed the button, of course with Johnny’s okay.

As I said, the betrayal that Micheal endured because of me amounted to no significant loss for him.

Ricardo,  Nice to make your acquaintance.  I don’t believe I’ve ever seen any of your postings.  Are you new to these threads?  Well my friend, you’ve got the right idea of how the Outfit is structured!  It was very refreshing to hear someone come on these threads out of nowhere and have a very accurate understanding!  May I make one suggestion? Put Cicero above 26thSt. and Grand Ave., but keep it still under Elmwood Park. Hope to see more of your postings.   Sincerely, The Don

Agreed.  It seems to me that Tony Cap. and Obrien were close.  Can you confirm that? Joe.  Any stories related to that?  What was Ricca’s opinion of Obrien? 

Is this closer? https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1JPr0DbS8kyZ3o93vZzWZvrxMh_UnNRT9KU48WrJEpj0/edit?hl=en_US

Sure they were.

Joe, it’s me. Who was Lee’s undercapo? Sometimes I think it was Joey the Builder but other times I believe it was Rudy Fratto. Honestly I have a feeling in my gut that tells me it was his own son, none other than one Michael G. Magnafichi.

The Don, it’s me (Teets). I would never want to be choked by Joe Lombardi–that’s for sure. It’s kind of unfortunate that strangling was his trademark. Do you know if Lombardi is still active on the street, or has he cooled his tempter dramatically? Do you have anymore stories about times he engaged in terrible behavior?

Teets,  it was Joey A.  Your first assumptiom was correct. After Lee died, Joey A. became the Capo within the Extended Elmwood Park crew. Those two guys were a great combination.

I do have a few more. The choking thing was  the beginning of someone getting a beating. He would grab them by the throat and then shortly afterward, the beating would begin. A lot of this happened with Willie Messino as his partner. He never killed anyone choking them. He is 75 years old and is basically semi-retired. He is involved in something that I can’t discuss, but it’s legit. He’s one of the Elmwood Park guys that are either semi-retired or semi-deactivated. When he was younger, he and Willie Messino were holy terrors. Later in his carreer he became very close with Mikey Cataldo. Sarno & Cautedella from Cicero liked Joey L. very much and sometimes in the past they worked together. There was another example of prominent guys from one Crew working together with a guy from another Crew when the situation presented itself.

Dear Teets,
I would almost say that Joey A was Lee’s co-capo. The spot should have truly should gone to Joey, but Jack was too much of a prick to do the right thing. However, Lee being the person he was split his take with Joe down the middle, which was his own decision. Joey was very grateful. When Lee was on his deathbed, he asked Joey to look after Michael and Joe promised he would. That might be a part of the reason why Joey contributed to shelving Michael.
Rudy was not even close to being made anything important. He was made because he mommy convinced Joey A and Lee to sponsor him.

Horsey,  yes, that’s pretty good. I would make Elmwood Park all in one big box.  Then within the box, have the seperation bewtween Top Boss and Capo. Also, I can’t see the whole diagram on my screen.  For example, I can’t see the word Capo for Grand Ave. & 26th St. I’m sure the words are there, I just can’t see them. You’ve definitely got the right idea.

I believe the old, old Grand Ave. Crew years & years ago was called the Circus Cafe Gang which was around Grand & Ogden. That’s why Grand Ave. and Elmwood Park have always been like first cousins. That was Accardo’s first Crew.

The Don,

A few things. 

One is that the Michelle Spilotro voice line-up thing was apparently deemed credible because Marcello had called the house several times in the days leading up to the murders, and Tony Spilotro called Marcello’s Lombard residence from his brother’s dental practice.

Another thing is, the other day when we were talking about Carlisi and his crew going to prison in the 90′s, and you couldn’t remember the name of the one guy…you thought it could have been Frank something. Were you thinking of Joe Bonavolante or Rich Gervasio? I was talking to a friend of mine was somewhat close to one of the defendants, and he mentioned those 2 names.

Joe, I heard something interesting today, and I thought I’d ask you. There’s no question that Nick Calabrese’s cooperation was the biggest blow to the Outfit ever, but some people are of the opinion that Mario Rainone’s erstwhile role as a cooperator in the late 1980′s initiated a chain of events that put away just as manu Outfit heavies for a good many years, if not for good. His cooperation caused the cooperation of Lenny Patrick and James LaValley who testified against Gus Alex, Carlisi and his entire crew (including James Marcello), and others. We all know what caused Rainone to have a change of heart, and I’m sure we all found it ridiculous when he criticized John Kass for referring to him as a beefer in one of his articles. (Kass has since referred to him as Mario “I’m not a beefer” Rainone.) 

On the Marcello bros. prison tapes, Mickey mentions his name, explaining that he brought in some good money on something. James’ response is something to the effect of, ‘he better because he ruined me.’Have you heard other people express this same sentiment? I’d love to hear your thoughts on the matter.

I suppose that beefing (like anything) could cause some sort of domino effect.

I suppose my point is that, in some circles, Mario Rainone is as reviled as Nick C. I was wondering if that is unique people I know, or if that is general view of Rainone.

I think Nick is in a league of his own.

Some soldiers/associates have beefed previously and caused some damage. Noone has beefed like Nick. Nick was the first Made guy to beef. Nick is in the Major Leagues of beefing. He’s right up there with some of those guys in New York and Philly. It’s a good thing for the Outfit that they purposely kept the number of made guys down to a much smaller number over the years, It has enabled them to do better damage control than New York or Philly.

Thanks Horsey,  Yes & no. I was thinking of his brother Frank Bonavolante. Carlisi, Marcello Zizzo &  Chiaramonte were all obviously made guys.  Frank might have been made and a partner with Zizzo.  This street franchise was direct with Carlisi and his personal underboss, Marcello, and was headed by Zizzo.  After Marcello and Carlisi got there cut, it’s quite possible that the remaining profit was  50% Zizzo, 25% Chiaramonte, 25 % Frank Bonavolante.  Zizzo was the dominent day to day Boss of the Franchise, Chiaramonte was a partner and in charge of Juice and collections, and quite possibly Frank was a partner in charge of Bookmaking. Gervasio and Frank’s brother Joe, were soldiers under them. That was a HUGE Franchise. Carlisi was the chief financial backer. 

Joe,  I know Lee gave Joey A. a piece of all his income from the partnerships with the made guys with him, but I thought it was 25% or  maybe even 33%  being Lee’s underboss. I didn’t think it was 50%.  Wow, Lee had a very good side to him!  Lee certainly didn’t learn any generosity from that cheap prick, Jack.  I know for a fact, that Jack’s percentages with his made guys were not on the generous side.  In fact, they were downright unfair.  When he would also simply put up money for something, the guarenteed percentage he wanted was  also higher than the other Bosses. Some of this complaining behind his back was known by some of the other crews. The Dominent Crew, Taylor St. was well aware of it which added to Mooney’s dislike of Cerone. In fact, let me be more specific, Mooney hated Cerone’s cheapness. The one guy that didn’t get UNDERCUT as much was Joe Gags. Cerone needed Joe Gags a lot. Cerone was cheap but he wasn’t stupid. I’ll give him that much. Your general thoughts?

Horsey,  I do not have the computer skills to make a chart. It seems like a lot of Joe’s readers want to see a current accurate chart. With Joe’s permission and input, we could make a simple chart of  5  Hierarchies of the Outfit begining in 1957. Hierarchy 1 would be during the Giancana years. Hierarchy 2 would be during the Auippa years. Hierarchy 3 would be during the Carlisi years. Hierarchy 4 would be Pre-Family Secrets years & Hierarchy 5 would be present. We would not list all the made guys. It would be too time consuming and there would be too many disagreements. All we would do is layout the basic skeleton structure with maybe a dozen names each time. What does everyone think?  

That sounds good, though you would have to take the reigns on the names during the Giancana years and the present. Maybe Black Angelo could throw some names out there for the present, as well. (I’m still ambivalent on the Marco thing. I could go either way on it. Not that I care a whole heck of a lot.)

I used Google docs on my chart so that everyone could edit it, but if you don’t want to go that route, then you can just post the names in the threads (if Joe has no objections) after we get started and someone else can insert them into the chart itself. It would be cool if Joe provided his input, too, if he’s not too busy with his book.

Give me a few days or so. I can see what I can do as far as designing some basic charts, or having someone I know design some charts. The links will be posted in the threads.

The Don, a two questions. 

After Fif died (c. 1973), it changed from Taylor to 26th, correct? And at what point did it go from Melrose Park to Grand Ave?

 Yes,  Part of the remainder of the Taylor St. Crew moved 16 blocks south and the new epicenter was 26th St.  This info. came  right  from the source.   Melrose Park was also actually part of the Taylor St. Crew and one of the two Capos within the  Dominent Taylor St. Group was Teets Battaglia.  His epicenter for the west suburbs was Melrose Park. After He died and Alderisio was dead and Daddano and a couple others were gone, one guy left was Niccoletti.  The Top Bosses of the ‘ New Regime ‘ inherited Niccoletti, English & DeStefano.  They were now direct with them. This was a distrustful unhappy relationship. You know what happened to these three men.  The First to go was Sammy DeStefano. He was obviously crazy and the most dangerous.  I believe the Grand Ave. Crew came about with the new power change and really was rooted in Elmwood Park.  Grand Ave. took over the Melrose Park area probably around 1969. Let’s put it this way, whenever Joey Lombardo was made a Boss which was right around that time. Mooch Eboli was centered in Melrose Park and belonged to Lombardo.

Horsey,  Also, when making the Charts, all you have to do is make boxes like before. For the Giancana years you will need 1 big box at the top and 4 boxes below side by side. For the Auippa years, you will need 2 big boxes, one on top of the other and 4 boxes below side by side. For the Carlisi years, the same. For the Pre-Family Secrets years you will need 2 big boxes on Top side by side, one box in the middle, and one box below. For the present, you will need 1 big box on top, 1 box in the middle &  2 boxes below side by side. I hope I haven’t lost you!

I am of the impression that Mooch was direct with Aiuppa. i do not see it the way you do regarding grand taking melrose. can you explain?

Horsey,  I’m doing it in bits and pieces to make it a little easier to understand.  THERE WILL BE 6 HIERARCHIES  COVERING ALL THE POWER REGIMES THROUGH THE YEARS INSTEAD OF 5. ( Sorry, I had to add one more) In Hierarchy 1,  Label the big box Taylor St. and make it wider than normal.  The next four boxes under it:  Elmwood Park,  North Side/Rush St.,  Cicero &  Chicago Heights.  In Hierarchy 2,  Label the Top Box Cicero, the box right under it Elmwood Park, and the next 4 boxes under those two: North Side /Rush St.,  Grand Ave.,  26th St., &  Chicago Heights.  Make Hierarchy 3 the same as 2.  In Hierarchy 4,  Label the two top boxes Elmwood Park & Grand Ave.,  the middle box 26th St.,  and the bottom box Cicero. In Hierarchy 5,  Label the top Two Boxes Elmwood Park & Grand Ave.,  the middle box Cicero, and the bottom box 26th St.  In Hierarchy 6, ( which is the present ) Label the top Box Elmwood Park and make it big and wide,  the middle box Cicero,  and the two boxes under them Grand Ave. & 26th St. This will basically cover the Hierarchy structure of the Outfit from 1957 to 2011.  You can see how it changed through power evolutions.  After this is set up, then we can plug in some names.

Sounds good to me.

no objections.

Joe,  Joey Auippa loved Mooch Eboli. There’s no question about it. I was specifically told from my relative that Mooch was in Melrose Park and was the underboss to Lombardo in the Grand Ave. Group. The Feds even have Lombardo talking to Mooch about Crew business and about a particular joint that Lombardo told Mooch to stay away from because it belonged to Joe Nick. I do not even place my opinion on that basis, ( though it helps) I base on being told directly about it and the business Mooch did out of Merose Park Franklin Park etc.

OK, I’ll work on it the next few days and post a link, and we’ll tweak it where necessary. 

btw, Do you know where Eboli lived in Melrose Park? Aiuppa lived in Melrose Park most of his life, though he maintained a part-time residence in Cicero and, of course, Oak Brook at the end of his life. I ask because Aiuppa lived on 22nd. I drive down his old street quite often. 

Someone mentioned in the threads that there was an edict that Cicero crew members had to live in Cicero. But, there were plenty of guys who didn’t. (In fact, most did not.)

Louie lived in Oak Brook.

The Don, if you’re having trouble viewing the charts in their entirety, it’s probably your browser. If you’re using Internet Explorer, maybe try switching to Firefox or Google Chrome. (I used Google Docs to make the chart, so Google Chrome might be the best browser to use.)

Joe,  Thanks for your approval on the charts. I think it will make a lot of readers happy and it makes ANP look good because no one has ever done a chart about Chicago the correct way. If we do it by street crews with Bosses, it’s much more realistic.  Also, tell me your  thoughts on my post above and did Lee really give Joey A. 50%? That was very generous!

Joe,

I’m not sure if you can answer this, but The Playpen being located where it is, I’m sure at some point the proprietor(s) must have had encounters with Louie and Centracchio. Did they ever try to arm them?

You’re right about that. But I know in his earlier days he lived in Melrose Park with his mother. I am curious where if anyone knows.

HF, Obrien was born in Melrose Park and moved to Cicero in the 1930s (after he got married) – was their till about 1958. And then moved to Elmhurst or what we would call Oak Brook now.

So essentially he was living in Oak Brook est 1958. His address was Oak Brook starting around the 1960s. He built all the roads around his house and urban legend has it he placed sensors underneath the roadways via mobbed up construction companies.

And Joe Fosco is correct Louie lived in Oak Brook (he to born in Melrose Park).

My father, who helped the “proprietor” since he was barely legal, made sure he was treated fairly. The Pen was opened shortly after my fathers and Louie’s death, however, a different bar, which was located across the street, was owned by the “proprietor,” and was established prior to the deaths of my father and Louie. The old bar across the street was the business that established the video poker connection.
My dear friend Buddy Ciotti was the main contact for the “proprietor.” Buddy did not like the “proprietor,” but accepted him because of his relation to me.
Centracchio had nothing to do with video poker. He owned adult bookstores. The government was wrong as usual when they indicted Tony on the video poker case. It was a ridiculous.

Yes, lee split down the middle with Joey a. and jack was hot about it – Michael told jack what his father was doing when Michael went on his monthly visits to see jack in prison.

Horsey,  If I have trouble reading it for some reason,  Joe can help me.  He can even email it to me as a last resort. I think you were confusing Cicero with Elmwood Park. Black Angelo had said that Cerone liked to have everone in his crew  live in Elmwood Park. Well,  Cerone might have controlled the men but not all of the Italian wives married to them. Not everyone in Cerone’s crew lived in Elmwood Park.  As for Cicero, not even Joey Auippa lived there. Some guys lived in Cicero and a lot of them lived outside Cicero but certainly not real far away.

HF, Oh by the way I mentioned that edict that all of Obriens guys had to live in Cicero (some in Berwyn) and for the most part it is 98 % true and especially in the 1960s and “most of the 1970s.

Guys like Turk Torello, Black Sam, Rocco Infelise, Solly DeLaurentis, Marco Damico, Angelo LaPietra, Jimmy LaPietra (Berwyn), Joe Nick, Jimmy Marcello, Louie Eboli (Melrose Park for a while) and others all lived in Cicero in the 1960s.

There is a story of Turk asking Obrien in or around 1977 for permission to move out to Oak Brook but Obrien declined his offer (but told him he could build a mansion in Chinatown if he’d like “LaPietra actually did in 1977″… I believe Turk just stayed put “old school” like a Lombardo or DiFronzo).

Around 1983 or 84 Obrien relaxed on his rule to move to Oak Brook. Marco moved out of Cicero in 1977 and built a mansion in South Barrington. So he had to drive or be driven to the Survivor Club on Taylor Street even futher from his old Cicero home.

Joe Fosco and others, was in Barnes and Nobles (Oak Brook) with one of my sons, his wife and grandson. They ran off to the kids section of books. I walked over to another section of crime books and saw the book “The Chicago Way” written by an ex-copper. Flipped through it and saw a picture of Alex Dana, Johnny DiFronzo, Marco DAmico, Mike Caracci and an unidentified mobster (that’s what it stated in the book). The pic by the way was taken at Rosebuds at the bar on Taylor Street. 

Anyhow Marco is smiling ear to ear behind Alex Dana’s bald friggin head, Johnny DiFronzo is shaking Alex Dana’s hand and is smiling also (DiFronzo’s hair I might add is in like a wavy pompadour). About the funniest thing in the photo is the look on Alex Dana’s face. He’s already an ugly mutter fucker to begin with, but he has the “deer in headlights” look on his skinny rob reiner face.

I thought the ugly “unidentified” mobster in the pic was very ugly also. He looked familiar. So when I got home I asked my source about the photo. I asked him two questions: 1) When was the pic taken ? (because in the book it did not say) and 2) who is the ugly bastard by Marco (who is unidentifed) ? Right away he said the pic was taken in 1987 and that ulgy feeble faced bastard is one Rudy Fratto. LOL !

Also on the pic it had John DiFronzo labeled (1) Alleged Mob Boss and on Marco’s face was a (2) Elmwood Park Mob Boss. The Organized Crime Division must of labled the men.

On a side note Joe Fosco I was looking around for the new Robert Downey jr/Winona Ryder of the Outfit you never know when Michael “Five Finger Discount” Magnafichi might pop up in a Oak Brook store. Didn’t see him… Maybe he has been banned from all stores in Oak Brook lol.

Anyways looking forward to reading a article on his father Lee. Maybe you should name it Lee Magnifichi: The Unknown Boss (hence know one really knows much about the tough s.o.b.)…

Rudy Fratto even in 1987 was an ugly feeble faced hanger on (had some hair though back then) ! Lol !!!!!!!! That made my day. I even showed my grandkid and he ran the other way. Poor kid gonna have nightmares.

I will look for it. The photo sounds like a real laugh.

Joe, Google this…. The Chicago Way Marco Damico … on the 1st or 2nd hit will be a link to the Google Books. Once you click on that… scroll down pass page 150 down to 152 and their will be a series of photos.

The Alex, Marco, Johnny, Caracci, and ugly Rudy pic is right their … their is also a Frank Sinatra pic. If you cant find it, you’ll have to go to your nearestg bookstore my friend. FYI my source also told me Tony Dote took the pic. I didnt ask he just told me.

Well,  No one would have ever given the nick name “Pretty Boy “ to Rudy. Maybe instead  “Pretty Ugly.”

Centracchio was involved in pornography and he had an abortion clinic.  Joe, how in the world did they associate Centracchio with video poker?  I always wondered about it.  They even convicted him! Was he convicted for video poker or for making payoffs to some mayor in Stone Park over Book stores?  Centracchio was a made guy but he was not one of the Bosses.  My relative was related to him on the other side of his family which had nothing to do with me.  I never really talked about Centracchio with him. In 2002, all he said was that Tony was not a Boss and was not involved in gambling.  I didn’t ask any more questions about him. Maybe you can tell me what the Feds really convicted him for?

Was Tony convicted? I know he died before he went to prison, but I am having trouble recalling if he died before trial. If he were convicted, it would have been due to a guilty plea. I do recall that no one on that indictment went to trial.
Right, Tony had abortion clinics too. He took care of both sides (dirty bookstores to spark sexual urges and abortion clinics to deal with the consequences sex). He once propositioned Dr. Giacchino to open an abortion clinic with him. Shockingly, Giacchino turned him down.
Tony was incorrectly shoehorned into the video poker indictment because of his payoffs to Bobby Natale. The government incorrectly assumed it was related to the video poker business and that he was the boss of it. LOL
I remember when I first noticed Tony in the indictment; I asked Buddy how Tony could be involved. Buddy looked at me, shook his head and laughed. I laughed too.
If Tony plead guilty, which he probably did, I would not be surprised. Most defendants plead guilty because they know that fighting the government is next to impossible, whether the defendant is guilty or innocent. If he was convicted, it was for gambling, because that was what he was falsely charged with.

Frank Calabrese is caught on wire talking to his son saying “Centracchio isn’t even Made” (refering to some new flow chart at the time that had come out naming him a boss).

I think you’re right Joe.  I think Centracchio plead guilty but died before he was convicted.  The Feds were right about him being a made guy. That was it.  They were wrong calling him one of the top 4 or  5 Bosses in the Outfit and they were way off saying he controlled all gambling on the West Side and West Suburbs. Complete Bullshit. The Feds are such exaggerators. They think everybody in Chicago is a Crime Boss. The closest Tony ever got to a poker machine would be if he had one in one of his Adult bookstores. That’s it. I knew Natale’s younger brother. He used to run a restaurant in Melrose Park with his wife and Mother in law, or maybe it was his Mom. He would speak Italian to me and my best friend. I could only understand less than half of it. He was a nice guy. His brother was the Mayor of Stone Park.

All those guys mentioned were close with Auippa, no question. But, Torello & LaPietra were old Taylor St. men who became 26th St.  That was their new Epicenter after Bucciere died.  Eboli was made into Grand Ave. and  eventually became underboss to Lombardo.  All the others were made into the Cicero Crew except Marco.  Marco went to Elmwood Park and very possibly was made there later by DiFronzo after Cerone went away. ( In my humble opinion )  

Gee Joe,  Too bad Giacchino turned down Centracchio on the abortion clinic. Giacchino could have then gotten a free abortion after Centracchio would have raped him.  

No,  Frank Senior did not say Centracchio wasn’t made.  If you look at his transcript on May 17,1999, he says that Centracchio has ” Never moved a stone ” and he also says that he’ s not one of the Top 5 Bosses. ( I could have told you that )  He starts to say something else a couple of times but never finishes the sentence. He does say that Centracchio could give Jimmy Marcello problems.  I agree that Frank Senior doesn’t have a high opinion of Centracchio, I’ll give you that, but he never said Centracchio was not made.  For that matter, My relative who was related to Centracchio through marriage kind of said the same thing.  Tough guys like Frank Senior etc. don’t usually have high opinions of guys involved in porno or abortion clinics or guys that are not known to be tough guys. However, that doesn’t mean that the guy is not made. Not every made guy is the tough guy killer type.

Joe, I’d like to tell you thanks, for telling me about the fact that Nick Rada hung at Holy Cross during his high school years. I was referring during 8th grade and freshman year of Elmwood Park of Michael Defillipis Jr.

I will still like to bring to your attention, the doubleganger fact that Nick Radda is, of the guy in the Italian flag Jacket and Italian hat. As, I have told you before, that I still haven’t seen the actual suspect’s picture from Elmwood Park high yet.  The other thing I would like to bring to your attention; is the fact that I told you of no ties of having proof that my suspect, I gave you a name of, has any connections to Joe Messino. I as an ameture, merely came up with a surmised conclusion that since, the facts around my suspect has Chicago Outfit family ties. That’s it!

So, this doubleganger Nick Radda does have a direct connection that permeats directly through to Joe Messino. I need a side profile of Nick Radda. I got an “A” in Art Composition as a Graphic Designer students. The one thing my “Anal Retentive” Art teacher taught me is to pay attention to details! I remember a hook nose! about 5.5 ht. Matt Damen built American Italian!

I need to order a few different years in a row of the Elmwood Park high school year books. This would be to make comparisons of the 2 young boys. The main thing left, and what it boils down to, is who, and which one of the 2 actually, owned an Italian flag jacket? SQE

Please keep us posted, as I for one am very interested in seeing what you come up with. Would you mind posting the link address again, I wanna make sure I have the correct one, and thanks for your time and information!!

Here’s a draft of hierarchy #1 with Mooney as top banana. 

https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/19gTjtCrYW9Cowj953oH-bGa1iwjD0s2Hi4gxZzSZXKA/edit?hl=en_US

Let me know what you guys think, and I can make changes, accordingly.

Actually Tony C and Frank Sr where good friends. They even took vacations together. And Tony C was a “take no shit” kind of guy. He wasn’t no pussy that is for sure. I’ll have to check with a few people but their relationship may have soured in the 90s. I know they both lived in Oak Brook.

And there was a Chicago Tribune article dated July 11, 2007 where on the DOJ tapes that day of testimony in the FS trial it came out Frank said quote “Calabrese Sr. also scoffed in one conversation with his son at the idea that Anthony Centracchio, identified in some news reports in the late 1990s as the leader of an Outfit crew, was in the mob hierarchy. Centracchio wasn’t even a “made” member, Calabrese Sr. told his son.”

FYI : I always got the impression from OutfitGuys and from Frank Calabrese that Elmwood Park guys in his opinion never killed anyone they where the “money makers”. The real tough men of men in the Outfit that did all the dirty work where in 26th street/Chinatown.

BA, I recall what you’re talking about. Isn’t there a part when Jr. is reading Sr. a newspaper story about the Outfit that named Centracchio as a top boss, and they both laugh and you hear Jr. say, “he isn’t even …” then apparently makes a moustache gesture with his finger? 

I thought it went something like that. Or maybe Jr. touched the side of his nose to indicate, “on the know.”The part when Sr. says, “I don’t think he’s moved one stone in his life,” was in reference to Shorty LaMantia, as I recall. (Remember there was that amusing story about LaMantia not being made that made somewhat of a splash at the time? Apparently he was never made because he never did any heavy work; hence: the ‘stone moving’ reference.) Though, I guess Sr. could have said it about Centracchio, too, if ‘moving stones’ was a common Chinatown idiom. 

Dear SQE,
Scratch Nick Rada off your list of suspects. He stands at least 6 feet in height. Thanks for your undying efforts.

lol

SQE, 

Someone cut off my wife on Manheim Road last night and sped away without apologizing. Seeing as you got an “A” in Art Composition and all, I was wondering if you’d be interested in launching a private inquest into this crime against humanity? 

HF, Also on the next day of testimony July 12, 2007. Frank Sr is talking to his son and tells him quote (in translation from heavy code talk) ”that people who believe that Joey “The Clown” Lombardo, Joe “The Builder” Andriacchi and others were leaders of the Chicago crime syndicate were wrong. Once Calabrese Jr. got out of prison, Calabrese Sr. told his son that he would tell him the truth.”

HF he also goes on to tell him too many members where being to public about their roles in the Outfit. Even braggin incorrectly that they where Outfit leaders.

You have any idea who he might be talking about HF ? Your thoughts ? Very interesting to say the least. As a side note I dont think he was talking about a Johnny DiFronzo or Marco Damico.. those guys where pretty hush hush about their roles (so ways Andriacchi) but Frank Sr. makes clear he is not a boss. Your thoughts ?

Your correct about Frank Senior’s opinion that Elmwood Park were the money makers and 26th St. did the dirty work.  However, I don’t care what any newspaper said. I repeat, Read the transcript from May 17, 1999, of Frank talking to his son for yourself.  He NEVER SAID Centracchio wasn’t made.  Are you going to believe a fucking newspaper misquoting Frank or are you going to believe Frank himself?  Your choice.

Horsey,  Read the transcript on May 17, 1999 between Frank Senior & his son.  Frank Senior never said Centracchio wasn’t made. he said he was never one of the top 5 bosses in the Outfit. Anyway, go ahead and read it.

The Don, I don’t disagree with you. I took the moustache thing to mean Old Man or old-timer, as in boss, as in he’s not one of the bosses. I was just saying that I know what Black Angelo was talking about. The moving stones remark that I am familiar with was re: LaMantia. He very well could have said it about other guys, too. I am not as well-versed in the Calabrese taps as I am with the  Marcello bros. tapes. 

I always was under the impression that Centracchio was made. 

Back in the 1990′s one of my friends was into some “associate” (for lack of a better term) for a few grand. I was told that this half-ass juice guy was ‘with’ Centracchio. This might not sound accurate since Centracchio wasn’t known to be a juice guy, but again, this is what I was told. (This friend lived and worked and was involved in all this bullshit out in Addison.) Another reason that I always thought Centracchio was made was because he used to hold court at a Greek-owned place called Kappy’s, east of Hillside out near Oakbrook Terrace. It was on the north side of Roosevelt Road. Centracchio and his guys got the smoking section all to themselves, and I witnessed him chastising some other guys I understood to be made. These guys would be drinking coffee with each other into wee hours in the morning. 

(Sorry, I meant WEST of Hillside)

Joe, come to think of it, I wonder if this half assed juice guy could have actually been with Michael?

The Don, Was that May 17 1999 translation the day of the July 2007 testimony ? if you ask me I always heard Tony Centracchio was made.

Tony C lived in Cicero for many years and then Palatine and then Oak Brook. He was a mean mutter fucker.. grouchy like Andriacchi. He used to always hang out at Aunt Sarah’s. (Centracchio did).

Of course that is why Frank Sr. calls Andriacchi the “pancake flipper” with a suit and tie on lol.

Tony C also seemed to have one foot always closely connected to Cicero and of course Grand Ave. And his main hang out was also in River Forest.. Called the Paddlewheel.

Black Angelo,  Thank you for listening. You are correct about Tony Centracchio. He was a made guy with the Cicero Group. He wasn’t in gambling. he was in porno, abortion clinic and occasionally juice loans, like all made guys. ( I’m not telling you something you don’t know )

Horsey,  Centracchio was made into the Cicero Group. He, like most all made guys, had soldiers working under him. Occasionally he made juice loans here and there. That’s common practice for all made guys. Look at the Giancana thread.

Describe him to me in detail.

It’s been a while ago now, but the one guy I remember seeing was in his late 30’s or early 40’s, probably. Caucasian, skinny, 5’10, maybe Polish or Czech but acted and tried to ‘look’ Italian—I’m sure you know what I mean. He pal’d around with an Eastern European boxer who worked as an instructor at some fly-by-night boxing camp out in Addison. (I think I later heard that he was somehow related to Andrei Arlovski of UFC fame.) Frankly–and I’m not a particularly rough guy—this guy looked like someone that even I could take. Anyhow, my friend was doing what he could to amortize his debt, but this guy wasn’t satisfied. I was around a few times when he got loud and started pointing his finger at my friend, who, as I said, was doing what he could do to pay down what he owed. I asked him why he didn’t just put this guy in his place, and his response was because he was with “that guy from Kappy’s,” who everyone knew to be Centracchio. (I heard this more than once.) My friend was later involved in several physical altercations with this guy (when he had some extra muscle with him), but it was eventually resolved. The only other detail that I remember is that he once brought some guys with him, and one of them was this over-the-top, greasy, fat ass goomba, right out of central casting.

Joe thanks for responding back. If it were height alone we were going by, let me say this; by the time I got outside of the place, this guy was further ahead of me. I only got a side few. I could be off on the height. It’s the features that I would compare. Again, by the time I got out in front, I only got a side profile. The thing is who has that ridiculous outfit that he was wearing? Height my by off if it is fur away enough. Also, regarding the original person, I was told he was tall also.

Lou,  Too funny!

how long is a while ago?

I sent you a reply, but in Defronzo food article. Thanks, for the compliment. Yes, I was a humanities student!  Thanks again SQE

One more thing, Joe, you saw the picture. Now I know your not stupid. You can see the resemblance is extremly close. As I emailed you. I spent the day having people between ht 5’7 and 6’2 and he is there! But, you saw the picture. So you know I didn’t make it up.  Just so you know, I told this to Mario Gonzelez 2 years ago, and it’s on police record. I also, told the narcotics cops that I gave you the name of!  This was 2 years ago already!Email me a note back aand tell me why the picture you have, that I gave you is not the complete spitten image of Radda? The original one from 2 years ago? SQE

Joe, the Catalano thing came back as mail demon. The one from facebook. Anyway, that’s why it didn’t go through. Ok 2 more things I remembered about Rada. This of course, in comparison of the guy we talked about with connections to the Chicago Outfit that went to Elmwood Park high. That was the only thing that made sense that made me think of a crew.

Now, based on what the kids family connection, that person  had described him as a tall real good looking kid. I had shrugged my shoulders at the time about real good looking part. He said he had a lot of girlfriends. When he told me had a lot of girlfriends I thought that remark was strange and didn’t fit either.  My opinion when I saw this Rada guy in September 2009, was that he wasn’t the ladies man type. His looks didn’t impress me. Nick Rada isn’t that good looking!

Now, what were the factors that I had did that in 20o9, Sept? I had just sent a missing person’s flyer of Tony Catalano to Andrea Russo telling him to tell the others. Yes, I had told Mario Gonzelez that I did this. I made a big point of the fact that I did to him. i ALSO, MADE A POINT OF HOW DIDN’T LIKE THE RESPONSE OF RUSSO,AND THAT IS ON POLICE RECORDS!!!

Now, Rada either knows the hang out and watches the guys at Piazza at Addison and Forest Preserve Dr. or he knew Michael Defillipis Jr.!  Remember, I had just recently seen the Defillipis kid. I don’t think Rada knows the guys at Piazza cafe. This is the guys Tony Catalano hung with at 3 Olives.

 Had spoken to detectives about the inside and the outside of the neighborhood as; age and old country Sicilian oriented verses American Italian. SQE

Lou, I have question, do you feel that the CPD is an inquest? Also, can I make a suggestion to you? Do not make silly comments unless you do your “Do Diligence” to investigate what you need to know about a situation. That’s at best,  before you come to a conclusion about it! SQE

The Don, also, please make your “Do diligence” to investigate what you need to know about a situation, before involving a comment. Thanks, SQE

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