I’m back Joe, I gotta tell ya.. your last article “Outfit Boss John DiFronzo Double Agent” was the worst piece of shit you ever wrote. It came off National Enquirish, or something the 4 eyed geeks that write for the Trib or Sun Times would of wrote just to gain readership. Not to mention the other 4 eyed geek at ABC7. He would of written something like that. (You sure Chuck did not author that last piece? seriously).

Anyhow having said that very strange that you would write your worst and best pieces all in one week. Ironic. Yes I must say I’m very impressed by your article on Lee. Their was alot of hype. And I must say you wrote a Home Run (although I imagine some other readers wanted more details on Lee’s “knock down drag out fights he was known for”).

A couple of things jumped off the page at me in the article above:

1. Lee’s rise in the Outfit, must of been stricly I figure on like-ability (again as I stated before a couple of weeks ago.. one of my sources said “everybody loved Lee” including Cerone)

2. On his deathbed I noticed nobody from Melrose Park showed up like Black Sam or Jim Marcello, LT etc. Black Sam was in Florida at that time (full time).

3. Andriacchi being the last to see his dear friend i’ve actually heard stories about that throughout the years.

4. When Lee (on his deathbed) he said to Johnny DiFronzo “Jack was pretty good to us, John”.. i could only surmise that Cerone really never killed any of his guys, or protected them alot. And maybe Lee understood that aspect of Cerone. What I mean by that is guys like Joe Nick would even have his most loyal guys whacked over nonsense. Guys like Butch Petrocelli and  Tony Borsellino. You never really heard of Cerone killing his own men. Sure he had a hand in some murders (like the Burglars on Joe B’s home) but his own men. The only I can think of is Chris Cardi (ironic Willie’s nephew) and the Penachio death was more than likely accident. But i dont know how else Cerone was good to any of his men.

5. My sources grandfather new Lee’s father Eligio. He was telling me Lee was in prison when his father died. A tough man himself.

Also Joe did you make a deal with the Magnafichi family that you would write that horse shit of an article John DiFronzo Double Agent. You know they gave you the blessing to write this article only on the grounds your wrote the horse shit about DiFronzo. Michael I imagine probably wanted you to write that first. Come on be honest damnit.

By the way Al Bartkus the old rough bastard… he runs around with Marco now and Marco’s gopher/lackey/bookie Jimmy DiGiulio. Nice article Joe. But the DiFronzo article was royal horse shit.

Ang,
Lmfao! Way to keep it real!
Signed,
Five finger discount man (formerly tony).

Joe,  Good article about Lee Magnafichi. I have to ask you a couple of questions about something I’ve wondered about for the last 6 months but didn’t want to bring it up.  However,  I’ll bring it up now with the risk of you getting upset about it.  In your article ‘ Part II Of The Outfit’s Attack On Fosco’ you stated that Dr. Giachinno left you a threatening voice message on August 11, 2006.  You have a Recording of the message within the article to which a reader can listen.  In a very important thread under the same article,  you answered a question from none other than one of the regular readers, Tony . In the answer to him, you stated the F.B.I came looking for you in 2004 to tell you there was a death threat made against you by the Outfit.  You also stated that Dr. Giachinno spoke to somebody from the F.B.I. Office also and that you obviously talked to the Doctor about the Death Threat yourself. You also stated the F.B.I. Contacted your lawyer in mid 2006 about the same death threat issue. you stated Dr. Giachinno knew of the death threat and used it as an excuse to extort money from you between 2004 and 2006.  Knowing that the F.B.I. was involved in 2004 , why would Dr. Giachinno leave you a threatening voice message on tape demanding money?  Wouldn’t that be suicidal on his part as far as the Feds tying him into the murder threat against you?  Wouldn’t any person with half a brain be afraid to leave a taped voice message on the phone of someone the F.B.I. would possibly be monitoring because of a supposed death threat? The first thing the F.B.I. would do is monitor your phone.

Dear BA,

Call my piece on DiFronzo as a likely double agent whatever you want. The fact remains that the photo speaks for itself (regardless of where or how I acquired it). And, my sources told me that various Cicero based Outfit guys are in doubt of DiFronzo’s loyalty. I simply combined the two matters and wrote my piece (of course adding my own perspective). Thank you for comparing (what you call my worst piece ever) to the work of Chuck Goudie. The thought that on my worst day, I would compare to a major media figure is a great compliment, again, thank you.

For the record, no, I did not strike a deal with the Magnafichi family regarding the DiFronzo piece.

I did not see the point of covering numerous ‘fight’ stories about Lee in the article because I assume those stories will come into the comment thread.

I wish to clarify that regardless of the fact that I did not indicate Black Sam’s name as a visitor, does not mean that he did not visit Lee at a different time. I will check in to it. I do know that Black Sam and Lee liked each other very much. On the other hand (s a point of reference) Lee and Louie the Mooch were not particularly fond of each other (I realize Louis died a year or two before Lee).

Al Bartkus and had been close pals since his release from prison 6 or 7 years ago. Unfortunately, I had to turn my back on him because of his loyalty to Marco in recent years. Al could be a way to trap me. I hope he is okay. His lady friend contacted me recently explaining that Al is on his deathbed, insisting I come to say goodbye. I wanted to go, but my better judgment stopped me from walking into a potential trap. It has been two weeks now and I believe he is still alive.

Dear the Don,
You seem to have the timeline down the way I have pointed out. Your question does not upset me. I love questions, especially tough questions (though your question in this message is not tough). What would tend to get on my nerves are repeat questions – raising the same question more than once (after I address it). Okay, my answer is simple. Yes, it was a suicide move on Giacchino’s part and he is a halfwit (although it did not cause him a criminal indictment as of yet). Most people are reluctant to think that a doctor could be so stupid. In response, I say, he is not a doctor (not a licensed doctor – because he is stupid and does bad things, which is consistent with what he did to my family and me).

You mean to tell me that Giachinno would be worried about losing his medical license MORE than being indicted for attempted extortion which would be a fairly lengthy jail sentence, especially connected to the Outfit.  LOL. Joe. if Giacchinno really made that phone call, he would have already been arrested and charged with a crime.

Here is where I would normally get upset with you, but I am not going to because it is all quite silly. You are inferring that it is not Giacchino in the voice mail, as if I am a fraud. The Don, you are the only person that has ever made such an insinuation. Giacchino does not even deny it is he. The transcript of the video was entered into court as an exhibit along with my affidavit explaining that I swear on oath that it is Giacchino. Copies of said legal filings were immediately sent to Giacchino as required by law. Not once did Giacchino file anything to deny it. Not once did he ask the court to have a hearing on whether I perjured myself by filing it (do you think he would not want to get me on perjury?). Again, he does not deny it is he. Anyone who knows Giacchino, knows it is his voice. Come on Don leave me alone.
If you have a beef with the U.S. Attorneys Office or the FBI for not doing there job regarding the threat Giacchino made to me, stand in line.

Great article, Joe. It’s interesting to read accounts of the softer sides of gangsters. Question: How do you pronounce Eco Coli’s first name. “ee-kō” or “echo” ? 

Thanks.

Thank you. Its Echo.

Giacchino wasn’t sued! DiFronzo etc. were sued in Civil court and the case was dismissed! Giacchino didn’t have to do anything!  If the case had been heard, you can bet DiFronzo etc. would have brought Giacchino in to say it wasn’t his voice on the tape. Why would he risk leaving a voice mail threat were he could be prosecuted in a criminal matter when he knew the Feds were aware of a death threat against you? Joe, you are the only Outfit target ever in 80 years where the F.B.I. warned you about it and one of the Oufit accomplices left you an incriminating voice message threat which the F.B.I. DID NOTHING ABOUT!!  Joe, you’re the luckiest man alive in Chicago. LOL.

The Don,
I was referring to the state lawsuit in my previous response to you, not the federal case.
Your false accusation is silly. Giacchino was sued. Again, I filed a multi-count complaint against him in state court (Cook County), prior to filing the civil RICO case in federal court. For multiple reasons, I abandoned the state court case against Giacchino after it had been pending for roughly two years (Giacchino countersued for defamation over my articles, which was eventually dismissed). The RICO case was a big interest to me.
Know your facts Don, before you come out swinging like a drunken blind fighter – you will knock yourself on your ass and wind up on the floor next to Tosto (I only warning you because I like you)!

Joe, it doesn’t matter to me. Your the one that has all the problems with this thing, not me. How can I wind up on my ass. That’s a rather dumb statement. Here’s the $500,000 question which you can’t answer. WHY DID YOU NOT PRESS CHARGES AGAINST SOMEONE EXTORTING MONEY FROM YOU WHO IS CONNECTED TO THE OUTFIT AND LEFT AN INCRIMINATING VOICE MAIL MESSAGE and WHY DID THE F.B.I DO NOTHING ABOUT IT WHEN THEY ARE WILLING TO SPEND MILLIONS  OF DOLLARS ON A FAMILY SECRETS TRIAL??????

Dear Readers:

I suspect that our longtime comment thread participator, The Don, was recently tapped by his uncle, a reputed gangster in the Chicago Outfit and friend of Dr. Giacchino, to begin another smear job against me, on my message threads, attacking my credibility. I am fortunate that the information that The Don is using is bad information. The Don’s false statement that “Giacchino wasn’t sued,” is proof for me.
The Don, you are welcome to go on a bit longer here, in case I am wrong about my suspicion. However, consider yourself highly suspect. Thank you.

My grandmother, who was in her late 80s and suffering from heart related medical problems would have been one of the main witnesses, who the U.S. Attorney’s Office would have had to work with. This would have been a compound wound for her. She had already been through enough. The Don, you are starting to appear as a rat among the threads (in my opinion). I hope I am wrong. If I am, I will apologize.

No, Joe. I’m only using logic. See the question below.

My grandmother, who was in her late 80s and suffering from heart related medical problems would have been one of the main witnesses, who the U.S. Attorney’s Office would have had to work with. This would have been a compound wound for her. She had already been through enough. The Don, you are starting to appear as a rat among the threads (in my opinion). I hope I am wrong. If I am, I will apologize.

Now you’re gonna resort to name calling? These are the same questions the opposing attorney would have asked you.  Joe, the story doesn’t make sense to me and never has, but I won’t comment on it anymore.PeaceBrother. 

If you do not like the story, complain to DiFronzo, et al, not me.

Joe,  I’m commenting on the top and this is my final comment. The whole story of the SECOND $500,000 Dollars that you say was extorted from you and you family never has made any sense to me. if I were on a jury, I would basically not believe it. However, I don’t know for sure what happened or didn’t happen for whatever reason. I think it’s one of the strangest stories I ever heard in my life. Especially with the F.B.I. involved. I was always the guy in school who would question illogical things concerning Religion that seemed ridiculous to me. That’s just the way I am.  However, when it was all said and done, I was still friends with most of the Nuns & Priests.I went at you like the opposing attorney would have gone at you. Anyway, no hard feelings.

Dear The Don,

Several months ago, you made it abundantly clear that you believed my assertions concerning my civil RICO complaint – you said so in the message threads. The subject was rested a very long time ago.
Recently, you have been revisiting the matter, raising questions as if you are new to this site, questioning me on things you already questioned me on.
Now you claim, “If I were on a jury, I would basically not believe it.” However, you further claim that you “don’t know for sure what happened or didn’t happen or didn’t happen for whatever reason.”

Again, several months ago in the threads you asserted that you believe my RICO claim.
Look, Don, the case never went to trial, it was time barred. Realistically, you should not prejudge the matter either way. You use the word juror – a juror must hear all of the evidence from both sides. A juror cannot simply read a complaint and render a verdict, even if the juror has been able to ask one of the alleged victims (me) a few questions. Your admission that you have prejudged the case, by “basically” not believing it (after you once said you did believe it), prior to hearing all of the evidence, would cause you to be removed from a jury if this were a current court case that you were serving as a juror.
You invested nearly as many hours over the past several months working on ANP as I have (maybe more). You have been supportive to me in the past. I am sorry for using the word ‘rat’ in some of my previous messages today – I wish to remind you that I never confirmed if that is how I think of you. The fact is that you recently turned against me. You have recently made some harsh comments by insinuating that I have been inconsistent and/or dishonest. I could understand if you were new to the site, but you are not.

I suspect that you have been commissioned by your uncle to help the Outfit members and associates who detest me by (suddenly) attempting to poke jabs at my credibility on some key issues relating to the extortion matter. Alternatively, others would suspect that you are worried that your identity could be determined since some know who you uncle is. Perhaps, you are simply doing a little preemptive damage control in case you are discovered – peer pressure from your fellow Italian American friends, who worship the Outfit, could be the cause of you back peddling. You might be establishing an argument to lodge in the future if ever confronted to be able to say, “I did not believe Fosco.” Again, please remember that you already once established that you did believe me – several months ago – when you first started spending many hours working on ANP.
I wish to reiterate that no one could form a reasonable conclusion on the matter involving my civil RICO complaint, again, because it never went to trial – it was time barred.

I am very tired of paying for other peoples personal issues.

Because the repetitious nature of The Don’s questions and his flip-flopping seem very questionable to me. He is pounding at my credibility, which seems as if he is trying to smear it. What does not make sense to me is that several months ago he decided to spend (possibly) more hours then I have spent working on ANP. And suddenly he turned on me, now putting issues he once acknowledged that he believed in doubt with the shots he has been taking at me.

(Please read my response to The Don’s last comment)

The Don my two cents … you should of brought this matter up on the other thread (not this one). You raise good issues, but you should of brought this up on the horse shit article about DiFronzo, not this one. You get what i’m trying to say ? You got way off subject.. very very very fast.

Dear BA,

I agree. He could have brought it up on a relevant thread, which
is another reason I suspect that he turned on me, possibly helping an enemy
through his uncle. He is behaving much differently, interrupting threads as he
did here, with shots at my credibility. The strangest part of it is that
he once (several months ago) went on record stating that he believed my claim
on the RICO matter. Today he seems like a different person.

Joe, You said Lee went away for counterfiting ? was he ever involved at all with Sam Urbana in money laundering ? Was he associated with Bingo World ? And I believe the Double Agent in the Outfit is the fella who called Chuck Goudie and told him of the weekly meeting at Loon Cafe. By the way the General Public and Chicago News agencies are always a year or two behind on who is the real boss of the Outfit. (in some cases 3 years behind). This has been a common practice.

On the other thread I believe ChiDago compared DiFronzo to a Joe B (accardo) but the better comparison would of been Ricca. The new boss is more like Mooney. DiFronzo is not the boss, but still has authority of a Ricca (Chairman). I’ve been told the new guy streamlined things and put alot of guys in new authorative positions (or in the money slot so they could earn without the hassle of having an aggressive street crew).. Solly D got one of these postions. By the way I say “new guy” but he has done this before, and has been the boss (i’m told) since 2009.

The problem is RICO (one of the reasons DiFronzo hightailed it and the reason he operated quitely during his reign 1992-2009) and the new boss operates even more quitely than DiFronzo, but still runs his gambling monoply as a young lad would. Dont forget my questions in the beginning. Grazie Joe Fosco.

Dear BA,
He most definitely had something going on with Sam, but my source is unsure of what exactly. It might have pertained to something in Florida. I will see what I could do to find out more.
I am sure that I am suspected for calling Goudie about the weekly Loon meeting. For the record, I did not call Goudie. I have sent a different reporter to catch up with Johnny.

Additional info on the Magnafichis:

Eligio (Lee) Magnafichi was born to Eligio Angelo Magnafichi and the former Josephine (Josie) D’Agostino.  Eligio Angelo Magnafichi and Josephine D’Agostino were married in Chicago on June 1, 1919.  Eligio Angelo was born on April 3, 1894 in Amaseno (province of Frosinone in the region of Lazio, about 100 km southeast of Rome).  According to the 1930 census the Magnafichi family consisted of Eligio and Josephine, their children Evelyn, Joseph, Eligio (Lee), and Gloria, along with his 73-year-old widowed mother Jessie.  They lived at 1803 New Castle Avenue in Chicago.  Eligio Angelo Magnafichi died in January, 1967, in Elmwood Park, Illinois.

Dear Rick,
Thank you very much for that information. Black Angelo should have asked you to write the piece on Lee.

Joe,

Quick question. Why do you think Nick Calabrese didn’t include Lee’s name in his list of who was present at the Bensenville house on Bryn Mawr where/ when the Spilotro brothers were murdered? I believe that Lee was present, especially considering who owned the property. Nick had to have known who Lee was because Frank Sr. and Frank Jr. mentioned Lee, by name, a few times in their conversations, which were recorded. So, it’s not like Nick Calabrese didn’t know who Lee was. No way.

One possibility that I was entertaining was that maybe prosecutors were afraid that the defense might have a field day on the cross examination if Nick stated that people who died long ago participated in the murder. However, he included the names of some deceased individuals such as: Louie the Mooch, Joe Nick, and Black Sam. I can’t understand why he didn’t throw Lee’s name in there, too.

Do you have any thoughts on the matter?
 

Joe,

Can you go into any detail at all about the relationship between Solly DeLaurentis and Lee? It has been implied that they were close. How? Were they related or something? It seems a little bit strange since DeLaurentis is a Cicero guy and Lee and Michael were Elmwood Park guys. Are we to understand that Lee was some kind of mentor to Solly, and later Solly became some kind of mentor to Michael? Thanks.

As you would recall, Nick testified that he did not recognize a couple of people in the basement. It is possible that Nick never met Lee, therefore, did not know what he looked like.

The information I have suggests that Lee did not think Solly should have been made. Lee did not think Tony Spilotro should be made either. Lee liked Solly and Tony, but did not think they should have been made. I do not think Solly was a mentor to Michael. Marco, Jack Sr, Lee, Joe B, Joey Andriacchi and Johnny DiFronzo were Michael’s mentors.

To add to that Solly was in prison from 1990 – 2006. Their is no way in fuck he could of mentored Michael. I mean come on, lol. I just think he was paying respects to Lee because he liked him as a man (nothing to do with Outfit matters). Nothing more nothing less. Lee died in December 1989. Solly was off the streets by February of 1990. A matter of 30 to 40 days after Lee passed. Joe Fosco would you please tell me when and where Michael met John Gotti ? I imagine in Florida.

btw i’ll withhold if Solly D should of been Made. But Tony Spilotro FOR SURE should of been Made and was Made.

I do not dispute that Tony was made – he was. Lee thought Tony should not have been made for different reasons then Solly. Lee thought Tony was too power crazy. As for Solly, Lee thought that Solly did not earn it.
Yes, Michael met John Gotti in Florida. I believe Michael was with Marco and some of the other fellows. Chicago and New York kept at a comfortable distance but sent drinks to each other. Michael had a chance to briefly exchange words with him. It was sometime in the 80s.

Why would Lee not think Solly D. earned it? Are you Kidding me? Solly D. was a very important man in the Cicero Crew all the way up to the time he had to go away , which I believe was 1992 or 1993. If That’s what Lee thought, He was badly mistaken.

Black Angelo,  I agree 100%. This myth about the Elmwood Park Crew being deactivated is bullshit. The only one deactivated for sure is Mike Magnafichi. Joe knowingly sealed his definite deactivation when he published the interviews. On the STREET level, Mike Mags is saying he never said those things about DiFronzo. Again, I don’t know. However, if oush came to shove, I would say that Magnafichi did say those things behind DiFronzo’s back never thinking Joe would publish it. There are Two Capos within the Extended Elmwood Park Group ( Pete & Joey A.) Just like Mooney had Bucciere & Battaglia. Marco is the day to day Boss with some men direct with him. DiFronzo is the Chairman. Grand Ave., 26th St. & Cicero are all partnered with the Extended Elmwood Park Crew which is the Dominent Crew. If Jimmy gets out, Cicero will be the sub Dominent Crew.  As I said on the other thread, Johnny is not a double agent. More Bullshit. Anyway, Your thoughts?

I am not kidding. In fact, a relative of Joe Nick told me that Joe could have had anyone put out there (Lake County) and it would have not made a difference – meaning that any thug could have done well there.

Another incorrect statement from you today, Mr. Don – Rudy Fratto is the other deactivated Elmwood Parker, lol. Due to recent developments, I would agree that an argument could be made that some of Elmwood Park’s Outfit guys are active (again). However, the crew was on a hiatus for a long time. Perhaps it took someone like Marco to put a little life back into it. Marco might be like Joe Lombardo, a person who has accepted that he will die a prisoner, despite how much money he already has. It will give us something to write about.

P.S.
No one could honestly say that he or she knows for sure if Johnny is a double agent. If anyone attempts to appear to know it all, such person would only be kidding himself or herself. If you look at my article on the subject, you will notice the title ends with a question mark.

Well, you’re right. But Rudy wasn’t deactivated by DiFronzo. Rudy deactivated himself by going to prison. That’s different then Mike Mags. I should have said Mike Mags is the only Elmwood Parker deactivated by DiFronzo.  Don’t get me started Joe, or I’ll start asking more of your favorite questions like ‘ To whom did you pay the 2nd $500,000′ , or     ‘Was the money all paid in cash’ , or ‘ How many payment installments were there’  etc.  Believe me , I’m holding back so we can have some kind of amicable relationship. It doesn’t mean I ran out of questions.  LOL.  

Actually, Rudy was deactivated years ago. DiFronzo told Rudy to get a job about 15-years ago. The only reason Rudy is going (and has gone) to jail is due to the fact that he was deactivated. His position as deactivated gangster caused him to scheme and scam in any was possible, until he got his d*** caught in his zipper, which is why he is on his way to jail again.

Joe,  That was a very good article that you wrote about Lee. Seriously, it was better than I thought it would be. When you write an article without some kind of personal grudge that you have for the person, those are your best articles! Example: Lee Magnafichi article, Sam Giancana article, Sam DeStefano article etc.

Maybe you are right? maybe you are not? Anyway, thank you for the compliment.

Black Angelo,  When the Cicero & Elmwood Park Guys were there in the hospital paying there last respects to Lee, Johnny sent Willie to go out and get some coffee. While he was gone Johnny quickly made Marco before Willie came back so he couldn’t object. LOL! 

They were at Lee’s home in Wood Dale, Illinois.

I’m working on a historical chart for the hierarchy of the Outfit.  Here’s what I have so far.  It’s probably got a lot of holes so I welcome any and all corrections.

 
Taylor Street/West
Side Crew A

Paul Ricca (overall underboss, 1932-1955, overall boss,
1955-1957)

Sam Giancana (overall boss, 1957-1966)

Melrose Park/West
Side Crew B

Louis (“Lefty”) Campagna (overall boss, 1932-1955)

Rocco DeGrazia

Elmwood
Park Crew (created in
1940s)

Anthony Accardo

Anthony “Tough Tony” Capezio (?-1955) Died

            Street
Boss:  Rocco Potenza

John “Jackie” Cerone (1955-1969) Promoted to Boss

[According to Fratianno, citing John Rosselli, Cerone was
one of about eight soldiers who reported directly to the boss during Giancana's
reign: Last Mafioso, 124]

Ernest “Rocky” Infelice (1969-1986)

John “No Nose” DiFronzo (1986-present; overall
boss, 1986-present)

Marco D’Amico (1990-1994) Prison

[Merged with North Side Crew, 1994]

Peter DiFronzo

            Street
Boss:  Rudy Fratto, Mike Magnifichi

North Side/Rush Street Crew

?Francesco (“Frank Nitti”) Nitto, caporegime
(suicide, 1943)

James DeGeorge, caporegime (demoted, moved to Wisconsin)

Thomas Oneglia (killed 1944)

Vincent Benevento (killed 1946)

Nick DeJohn (killed 1947)

Ross Prio, caporegime (died 1972)

Dominick DiBella (1972-1976)

Vincent Solano (1976-1992) Died

            Street
Boss:  Placideo “Little Caesar”
DiVarco

Joseph “Joe the Builder” Andriacchi (1992-Present)

            Street
Boss:  John “Pudge” Matassa,
Jr.

Cicero Crew (later merged with Taylor Street)

Ralph Capone, crew boss (demoted in 1932, moved to Wisconsin)

Joseph (“Joey O’Brien”) Aiuppa, caporegime

Carl (“Charlie”) Torraco, top lieutenant to Aiuppa

Joseph Ferriola, caporegime

Rocco (“Rocky”) Infelise, top lieutenant to
Ferriola

Rocco (“Rocky”) Infelise, caporegime

William Jahoda, top lieutenant to Infelise

Chicago
Heights
Crew

Anthony Sanfilippo (Mafia boss:  c1910-1924) Killed

Felippo Piazza (Mafia boss: 
1924-1926) Killed

Dominic Roberto, caporegime (1926-1928) Resigned

James “Vincenzo Ammeratto ” Emery, caporegime
(1928-1957) Died

            Street
Boss:  Anthony Pinelli – Demoted and
moved to Palm Springs area

            Street
Boss:  Jasper Matranga – Demoted and
transferred to Los Angeles crime
family

Francisco “Frankie Laporte” LiParota, caporegime (1957-1972)
Died

Alfred “Al” Pilotto, caporegime (1972-1982) Prison

Albert Tocco, caporegime (1982-1989) Prison

Dominick “Toots” Palermo, caporegime
(1990-1994) Prison

[Merged with 26th Street/Grand
Avenue Crew]

Grand Avenue Crew
(original home of Chicago Mafia)

Vincenzo (“Jack McGurn”) Gibaldi, crew boss

Anthony Accardo, caporegime (overall acting boss, 1947-1955,
overall underboss, 1955-1957)

Anthony (“Tough Tony”) Capezio?

Salvatore “Sam” Battaglia (c1952-1973) Died

Joseph “Joey the Clown” Lombardo (1973-1986)
Prison

Louis “the Mooch” Eboli (1986-1987) Died

Vincent “Jimmy” Cozzo (1987-2005)

Joseph “Joe Kong” Cullotta [Calato] (2005-Present)

26th Street/Chinatown
Crew

Al Capone operated here from the Lexington Hotel

Bruno Roti, boss/caporegime (?-1957) Died

Frank “Skids” Caruso (1957-1983) Died

Angelo LaPietra (1983-1983) Prison

James “Jimmy the Lapper” LaPietra (1983-1993) Died

Michael Talarico (1993-1994) Demoted

John “Johnny Apes” Monteleone (1994- 2001) Died

?Anthony “Tony the Hatch” Chiaramonti (2001)
Killed

Anthony Zizzo (2001-2006) Killed

            Street
boss:  Frank “Toots” Caruso,
Jr. (2001-Present)

 Sorry guys, it looked better before I pasted it.  I guess docs written in Word don’t copy well.  If you guys can’t read it I’ll redo it a bit different to make it more readable.

It was a joke. Going out for cofee worked better in a hospital setting then in a home…never mind

Rick,  It would take a lot of time to fine tune. I don’t know some of the real old timers. Why don’t you look at our chart from 1957 to 1966. It’s excellent. Several quick things. Melrose was eventually covered by Sam Battaglia. He covered all the West suburbs and was part of the Extended Taylor St. Crew.  Rocky DeGrazia worked under him.  Rocco Potenza belonged to Taylor St.  The remainder of Taylor St. really became 26th St. Crew, just 16 blocks further south.  Al Capone operated out of Cicero, not 26th St.  Matranga became a Los Angeles Mafia man.  Never belonged to the Outfit. The 26th St. area was covered by Taylor St. in the old days. The original power base of the Oufit in the real old days with Capone was Cicero, not Grand Ave. In those days the Irish were on the North Side.

I get it, why it would be at a hospital lol

I believe you Joe. Trust me I believe you, Lee felt that Solly should of not been Made. In 1989 I could see how Lee would feel that way. However he was wrong about Solly and had he lived till now would of admitted he was wrong about Solly. That fucking guy went away at 53 years old ( ironically same age as Fat Sarno now) and did 16 years for his crew/organization. That is a MAN. And he is respected. John DiFronzo and Marco especially have looked out for him. Marco can relate to Solly (Marco was 58 when he went away).. Did 11 years for his organization. These are Men. End of Discussion.

btw I wonder if Gotti’s right hand Jackie D’Amico was with him when he saw Marco and Michael in Florida ? I imagine he was this must of been around 1989 -90.

Andricacchi is a Double Agent ? when are you going to write that article ? lol… no but seriously.

I’ll have to post the charts again at scribd.com, the Don. I removed them because, like the WordPress page, people began posting invective comments (using a certain 3 letter acronym as the screen name) again.

Black Angelo,  Joe hates DiFronzo so that’s why he’s always looking to criticize him by saying he’s the worst killer he’s ever seen, he gets sexual satisfaction from murder, he’s very possibly a double agent etc.  I’ll be honest with you, over the years I never heard anything bad about DiFronzo. He was considered fair and a much beter Boss than Cerone. My Relative always loved him. Joe’s not going to accuse Joey Andriacchi of anything because he doesn’t dislike him.       

I do not hate DiFronzo. I hate Rudy Fratto. I agree, I heard the same, DiFronzo is a better boss than Cerone was, again, I agree with it.

Maybe I am simply the kind of person that goes after the toughest kid on the playground the hardest.

On second thought, I do not think I hate Fratto – I strongly dislike him.

The Don and Black Ang,

I have a question for both of you (I hope you answer the question with a yes or no; and not deviate from the question to avoid giving a direct and straightforward answer). In your opinion, do you think Lee Magnafichi ever personally murdered another human being?
Please ignore the question if your answer is yes and you rather not go on record saying so. Thank you.

I think we should touch on how Marco operates these days and who are his soldiers. How can someone so high profile get his job done and fly under the radar?

It seems all of us know that he is in action. How is he considered under the radar?

Joe,  Let’s at least be honest for your real purpose of creating ANP. Your purpose of creating ANP is to have a vocal forum to attack the people you either hate or intensely dislike. The readers purpose, including Black Angeleo and myself, is to have a forum to discuss things about the Oufit and organized Crime in general because it’s an interesting subject. The clash that exists sometimes is that our purposes occasionally conflict with each other. You’re out to try and prove how bad the Outfit is and how they hurt you and your family. the regular readers only want to discuss things about the way the Outfit operates. The less you are on a crusade about attacking the Outfit, the more credible your articles and discussions are on the threads. However, the crusade you have against certain people is your main objective. Real good journalism is at it’s best when it is objective. I believe you have those talents because you have demonstrated them at different times.   

The Don,
Let us be honest about the hundreds of hours you have invested in ANP over roughly a year that I am aware – now you claim to see ANP as a tool for vendettas. Nearly every Outfit piece that I authored (for nearly 4-years) has slammed the Outfit and now you take issue with it. Killers and pedophiles (or alleged protectors of pedophiles protectors, who are indicated in my church pieces) will not benefit by having their illicit (in some case murderous) behavior ignored here. Call it hate on my part if you must.
Please answer the question: in your opinion, do you think Johnny DiFronzo and Lee Magnafichi ever personally murdered anyone?
I do not expect an answer from you as it becomes more obvious by the day that your uncle (who you claim is a made member of the Outfit; and I know is a good friend of Dr. Joseph Giacchino) has probably convinced you to attack the good work at ANP that you used to love. All of your comments are still out there from the hundreds of hours you invested in ANP, when you used to compliment me nearly on a daily basis – before your new campaign of insulting me.
I will end here, allowing you more rope.

I told you I liked a lot of your articles. Black Angelo and I have disagreed with you in the past on some other issues. It’s not a big deal.  Don’t worry about it. I have always thought your whole extortion story was strange. Always.  After Tosto directed his video at me, I inquired about a couple of things with a very close friend who is high up in law enforcement in the West Suburbs and   questioned more things.  Why can’t you accept me as a good commentor despite the fact that I have some serious doubts about a few things that seem illogical and strange to me.  I mean does it have to be all or nothing? Do I have to believe everything you say or we cannot be friends at all? I don’t even agree with my wife all the time and I still love her. I think there is more to the whole extortion story than you’re admitting. Maybe I’m wrong but that’s my opinion. Why are you protesting so much about it? Let’s just forget about it. okay?

I will start looking into doing something.

Joe, can Rick’s unintentionally ill-formatted comment above be removed from the threads? I mean no offense to Rick, of course. It’s just that it screws up the comments section. Thanks.

I will rephrase. For months, you never insulted me. Recently, that is all you do. Your insults have been carefully crafted to demean my work. Again, it is a new you. You are different. My work is the same. Again, I believe your uncle is behind it. Please leave Black Ange out of this. This issue is between us. You do not have to believe anything I say. Why you invest so much time here is questionable. The rash of insults, again, is a new thing for you. Again, it is not about you disagreeing with me on a few things. It is your new style, which consists of insults.
The Don, if you are going to continue with your insults, please go away. Thank you.

Joe,  I’m sorry I forgot to answer your question. Yes, I do believe DiFronzo and Lee Magnafichi were involved in some murders. However, so have pratically all the made guys in the Outfit over the last 80 years. That would be like asking someone if they believe Al Capone ever killed anyone. Yeh, I suppose he did because sometimes that is part of the Business to protect the organization or to protect oneself. When you sign up for that line of work, prison and murder come with it. 

Dear HF,
His comments are not vulgar. Feel free to disagree with him. Thank you.

You make killing fellow Americans on American soil sound noble.

I don’t disagree at all–Rick seems like a nice guy. I was just saying that the comment unnecessarily elongates the thread. Can you adjust the spacing between the lines. (I am talking about his list above.)

I guess Tosto’s video upset me and made me question more things. I’m sorry if the questioning offended you. I comment because I enjoy it.

Why would you give Tosto the power to control your feelings? Moreover, if your pal from law enforcement does not like me, there is nothing I could do about it. My entire criminal history is reported in several articles here; and has been available to my readers for years. I have not been convicted of a crime since the early 90s and I never received a sentence of incarceration. In other words how bad of a person could I be? I walk around with an unlawful blemish on my name, indicating that I threatened a judge, which makes me look like a bad person. I never threatened a judge. Read this:
http://americannewspost.com/joseph-fosco/885/you-have-the-right-to-access-and-review-your-criminal-history-record-information/
Tosto never met me. He reports hearsay information (which is either completely false, or distorted), without calling it ‘alleged’ or ‘suspected’, which is going to be a legal problem for him very soon. It is no surprise that a powerful organization as the Outfit found a patsy to defame me. As I said in one of my recent comments, if anyone believes Tosto, please stop reading ANP and commenting here. Why would you want to if you believe him?

The Gentleman high up in law enforcement has nothing against you. He doesn’t even know you. He said your story is inconsistent with how the F.B.I. would handle that kind of situation if they heard of a real death threat by someone in the Outfit. They would have monitored you making payments between 2004 and 2006. They would have arrested Giacchino in 2006 for making the threatening phone call. Tosto has nothing to do with believing anything. His video triggered the further questioning. Why are you so bent out of shape over it? I’m willing to forget it. Maybe they didn’t arrest Giacchino in 2006 because they are still investigating it. Maybe what happened will be the new Family Secrets II Case. Hell, I don’t know, I only asked more questions, that was it!

Thanks.  I used HF’s chart to help me with some items, but I wanted to cover the period before that chart (1932-1957).  The info on Matranga came from “The Last Mafioso,” so the source was probably Jimmy Fratianno of the L.A. Family.  There were two different Jasper (Gaspare) Matrangas, one born in 1898 and the other in 1920.  The book claims he was in Chicago.  According to the book (page 18), he was the “boss of Calumet City.”  Since the book points out that this one was unrelated to the others it must be the one born in 1898.  Anthony Pinelli has also been referred to as a caporegime before coming to California, but he couldn’t have been since Jimmy Emery was at that time.  I couldn’t find much on the Jasper Matranga born in 1898 except that he died in San Diego.

I also wonder if there were more crews in the earlier days that may have merged as time went on.  It certainly would have been before the extended crews existed.

Regarding the North Side, one source I have says that Frank Nitti was sent there after the Massacre.  If that’s true, then he must have been the original capo in charge of that area.

Regarding Capone, he operated from Chicago while Big Bill Thompson was mayor.  First was until 1923 when John Torrio was still in control of the Outfit and they left for Cicero.  After the exit of William Dever and the return of Mayor Thompson in 1927, Capone came back to Chicago and operated out of the 5th floor of the Lexington Hotel on 22nd and Michigan Avenue.  He continued to operate there until he was sent to prison.  While he was in Chicago his brother Ralph controlled the rackets in Cicero.  Under Ralph Capone were Joe Aiuppa and Claude Maddox.

I never contacted the FBI about any of it. The FBI was unaware of what had occurred until I filed my civil RICO case years later. You are stuck on the idea that the FBI should have been aware of everything by listening to our phone calls for several years. The FBI does not make a habit of going after people they way they went after Blago. I believe that the FBI would not bend over to help me because I have refused to talk to them on multiple occasions. Some say that I have not contacted them because I am full of shit. Not true. If I had contacted them when I felt ready to deal with them, my grandmother would have suffered. She was a major part of the case. Now she is gone.
The only thing the FBI knew was that organized crime members were conspiring to murder me. However, they did not know why, which is why they wanted to talk to me. If I would have talked to them and had I worked with them by wearing a wire on Giacchino and Fratto, they would have been in the Family Secrets case.

I thought you did talk to them. That’s what you said in your other article. You specifically said they seeked you out and informed you of the death threat. that means you talked to them. Correct? Why would you have not wanted to talk to them?  

I agree. That is the longest shit i’ve ever seen. Needs to be removed.

I have to say that I almost wonder who does all the commenting under “The Don’s” name. I like the Don ….but some of his posts are fit to be posted in Forbes magazine and others are, to be blunt, worded very shitty.
Whatever the fuck is going on here…let’s get back on track.
If anything Joe & Don, E-Mail each other and keep it off the threads. It’s turning into a fucking soap opera on here!

How does he get things accomplished with the FED’s up his arse 24/7 is what I mean. How does the actual money get to his hands?

I’m confused. Why didn’t you work with the FBI? Aside from your grandmother’s health. If she was terminally ill, the FEDS should have latched onto you in any case to get these guys.
Joe, when you were on good terms with all these different gangsters, did you tell the FEDS to “Pound Sand” so now they are making you suffer to try and help you now?

I think we should begin an email communication as some of the others have suggested, or find a more appropriate article on ANP and discuss things in its thread. However, I will respond. My attorney had communication with the FBI. Therefore, I could say I did because my attorney is my representative anything he says or hears is on my behalf. However, I am sure that I have indicated such details somewhere on ANP. In addition, I have published my lawyer’s affidavit a few years ago. You may review it here: http://www.americannewspost.com/docs/jfosco/demeoaffidavit.jpg
If you would like to call my layer to verify that he signed it (to prove I did not forge it), let me know, I will call him to tell him to expect your call and grant authorization for him to release the information.

Fuck Tosto and Fuck Gaspar Gomez! And fuck the fuckin’ Diaz brothers! Fuck ‘em all! I bury
those cockroaches!
You guys are just giving that shithole of a person more hits on his site. That’s all he cares about.

In not so many words, I suppose you could say that I told the FBI to pound sand. I wanted to work things out without being a rat. Giacchino (who I thought was a friend) explained a plan that sounded good. I would rather not get into it. I explained it in other articles, such as “A Journey to Healing.”
My grandmother was not terminally ill. She was in her late 80s, and had already been to Hell and back over the finances. She did have a bad heart. The idea of driving her downtown to the Federal Building did not sit well with either one of us.

Tony Dote.

I condensed it.

Rick,
I’m not speaking for anyone else on these threads, only myself. Your kicking a horse that has been cremated already, going that far back in “Outfit History” is very boring. Let’s do a chart from 1989-2011.
That will take some time, but it well worth doing so.

Black,
Good to see you back. That shit rhymes and I’m not a poet or rapper.

I am trying not to do that. However, if I do not respond to my longtime contributors, I will not look good. I would have appreciated if some of my longtime contributors would have been more conscientious of Tosto benefiting and simply refrained from making comments that would help him. I suppose that is another reason why I began to question someone’s intentions.

Are you drunk right now, Chitowndago?

Joe, why don’t you institute a new rule? From this point on, if anyone mentions you-know-who from YouTube in your threads, automatic 30-day ban for that user. 

Black,
I remember in the early 90′s when my father was still alive. He lived in Boca and meetings took place in Delray Beach. New York had ZERO, NONE, ZIP, NOTHING, NO RESPECT from Chicago at all. Period point blank! My father ripped me a new one when I lived in Vegas working a legit job for NY people.

p.s. Solly is a trooper.

lol!

Joe,
How the hell did you put that much trust in that weirdo? I met him at a gym I boxed at. In ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh maybe 30 seconds I realized he was the biggest tool on the planet.

lol! He’s followed 24/7!
I am baffled how these guys move around without problems. I especially wonder with modern technology. Tony can’t do it all.

Horsey,
I do not drink alcohol or do drugs.

P.S. If I have ever referred to “Cocktails” it’s cranberry juice.

I appreciate your idea, but I learned from experience that when I rule as a warden, the flock escapes. In addition, its not so much the mention of you-know-who that causes issues, as it is the affect that you-know-who has had on The Don. I am disappointed that it caused a great deal of my time hashing things out with him. Oh well. It is not the end of the world.

Just because someone is weird does not make the person bad, except in Giacchino’s case. I knew him for a long time. I became close to him through someone I trusted, who spoke well about him. I was impressed with his success and education. I overlooked the weirdness. Unfortunately, I misjudged him, by giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Joe,  Three more questions.  Why would the Oufit want to kill you in 2004 if you were paying the money. Why would you have ever even begun paying money in 2002 when the debt was satisfied in 1987? Where you investing money with them in 2002 and then the investment went bad?

The thrust of my remark is that you bear the most responsibility for what appears on your site–at least initially–so I see no problem with you demarcating some boundaries. This comment isn’t aimed at anyone in particular. We’ve all broached the subject before for various reasons. But then again, I understand your position if what you are going for is loose and easy discussion and transparency. Anyhow, speaking for myself, I wouldn’t care if his name never appeared in the threads again, and he fell off the face of the earth.

Horsey,  Were you refering to me with your posting above?

Don,
I believe they are referring to Tosticles.

No, not at all.

Chitowndago,  I made all the comments. You said some of them were worded shitty, what do you mean? I was only asking some questions that I think other people have wondered about for awhile.

Horsey are you drunk right now?

This is,getting silly. Im eagerly waiting don & hf’s next chart. When can we expect it?

I was saying that if Joe doesn’t want his readers to mention that one guy, then the only way he could prevent it is by making it a rule that the guy’s name is not to be mentioned in ANP’s threads. If Joe were to do that, I, personally, would have no problem with it because it’s Joe’s site. 

The problem is that there never has been an ACCURATE chart of the earlier years of the Outfit.  Believe it or not but a lot of people would be interested.  Books on Capone, Nitti, McGurn, etc still sell.

Thanks Joe.  I didn’t like how it somehow reformatted with a lot of extra spaces when I pasted from the Word file.  Looks a lot better now.

I stopped paying prior to the 2004 FBI notification.
A big part of why I began paying was to keep my name from being blackballed throughout the city. If I did not go along with the extortion game that Cerone initiated he would have closed every door in my life (I was strong-armed – Cerone wanted to f*** me and he did. I never believed the story that my dad owed money, not for a second. It did not matter. The reason was unimportant. The fact is that I was being extorted for no reason other than Cerone wanted to take my money). In the end, I was blackballed anyway. Trust me; I had my reasons to go along with it. And, at the time, it really was not a major amount of money for me (I was in an interesting personal situation and Cerone knew it). There was no investment regarding the initial funds that I forked over in 2002.
The remaining 100k that Giacchino finessed out of me in future years was supposed to create a bonus, making me a silent partner in a skin care center. He later told people that I owed him 100-grand from an old credit card expense. The truth is that I settled that debt well prior to the timeframe that he was collecting the 100-grand for the Outfit/Fratto. I have a note from him excusing me from the old credit card debt. The six-figure loan on my grandmother’s house would have never been issued if it were not for Giacchino. He pulled strings with the mortgage company to get the loan approved. He and his son went into business with the man who owned the mortgage company, who pushed my grandmother’s loan through for Giacchino. They wrote an 85 year old woman a 30-year mortgage, with a roughly $2000.00 per month payment, when my grandmothers annual income was 10-grand.
Cerone used Fratto, who leaned on Greedy Petie to intimidate me. When that was played out, Fratto contacted Giacchino and the rest of the money was eventually collected through deception and duress. It would have never stopped if I did not go public.
Cerone started it all. In addition, Cerone f***ed many other people out of money. I was his smallest score. When Brookwood Country Club was taken by the county, he pocketed the lions share, which automatically screwed his partners. One of his partners was Paul Butera. I believe that Paul was f***ed out of 2-3 million. Years earlier Jackie took Little Paulie D for roughly 1-million. Each time he did this, he simply took it away from these people. When the men spoke up about it jack told them too bad. Paul Butera could have had Jack investigated and indicted and decided not to do so. Go ask him why he did nothing about it.
John DiFronzo should have made sure that Cerone (and Fratto) could not f*** people!!!!!!!! Instead, he walked around town as if he were an old stupid goof. Well, you old stupid f***ing goof read this one again:
http://americannewspost.com/joseph-fosco/757/did-john-difronzo-murder-the-man-that-took-his-wife%E2%80%99s-virginity/

The Don,
Some of your comments just didn’t seem like the way you normally post.
I question a lot of things, even Joe’s storie’s.

Frankly, the past few days on here seem like everyone is in a state of ‘paranoia” with some of the posts that have been made.
I honestly like input from all the credible people on this site.
I don’t know whether or not people actually know who I am on here or not. If it came to the point where it came time to, “put up or shut up” as far as real names go, on here, I would not have a problem putting mine on here.

Joe & All Readers,  Thank You.  I was put between a rock & a hard spot which I cannot discuss. I have now forced Joe to fully explain what happened and that the extortion or con game that began in 2002 was REAL!  I  finally got it out of Joe, Thank You.  I KNOW IT WAS PAINFUL, but the questions I asked were neccessay to tell get the whole story out of you. I had no intention of ever betraying ANP.  Now, Tosto go fuck your bald headed mother. 

The pattern lately is that I’m at least a little bit drunk almost all of the time, Chitowndago.  

That makes one of us.

The Don,
I hope you mean it. Thank you.

lol! Horse!

And these are the days of our lives………………………………………………….

You’re God damn right I mean it! It had to play out this way. The Sicilian way. Joe, your last paragraph was A plus.

I hope you are not pulling my leg.
I was speaking from the heart.

I’m not pulling your leg. i know you were speaking from the heart, that was the beauty of it!  I really got put in a bad spot. The last three questions were my last shot for you to come through and you did very well. I did what I had to do to prove a point, but I somehow had to MAKE you prove the point for me. 

More like the days of our Sicilian lives.

Dear The Don,
Again, I hope you are not pulling my leg.
I noticed that your comment came through with the username consisting of part of your email. Please do not think I had anything to do with it. It must have been a glitch in the system. I cannot fix it, unfortunately.

Joe,  That’s okay. I think Lee’s main buisness was Bookmaking. Am I correct? Was he ever involved in Constuction like Andriacchi? 

Probably during the week.

I agree. Sorry Horsey, I was stuck literally between an Italian rock and a hard spot. I did what I had to do and Joe finally came through. I’m sorry I can’t explain further. Let’s just say that Baldly started it with that video. If you would like to do another chart, please let me know. Thank You

I agree with the Don below. I understand the cunning methods he went to obtain the truth from you. Anyways what does that ANP article ”did john difronzo murder the man that…” have anything to do with this ? It’s not a probing question. Just wanted to know what signifigance that article has to this situation.

Black Angelo,  Thank You, I knew you would understand.  Did you see my posting below about the current structure of the Oufit in 2011, actually since about 2009?  Anyway, I’ll reiterate quickly.  The myth of the Elmwood Park Crew being deactivated is bullshit.  Mike Magnafichi was deactivated and Rudy Fratto basically deactivated himself. The Dominent Crew is The Extended Elmwood Park Crew. The Top two men are DiFronzo ( Chairman ) & Marco D’Amico ( Top Boss ) the two Capos within the Group are Pete DiFronzo & Joey Andriacchi. I believe the Outfit is similar in structure to the Taylor Street Years of 1957 to 1966. DiFronzo ( Ricca ) Marco ( Mooney )  Pete & Joey A. ( Bucciere & Battaglia ).  The other three crews are Cicero, Grand Ave. & 26th St. all partnered with The Dominent Crew ( Elmwood Park ).  If Jimmy gets out, Cicero will be the Sub Dominent Crew with Jimmy being the Underboss of the Entire Outfit.  Right Now, there is no Underboss of the entire Outfit, like during Mooney’s reign of power.  Your thoughts? 

Black Angelo,  Also I would like to add the other three Bosses are Cautedella ( Cicero ),  Caruso ( 26th St.) & Vena ( Grand Ave.). Solly D. is very well respected and may be the underboss of Cicero or since the Cicero Crew he knew is long gone, he may actually be underboss to Andriacchi in the Extended Elmwood Park Crew. I’m actually not sure about that detail. What I am sure about is that they broke the mold when they made him. There is a real man. Marco, Solly D. Joey L. old fashioned men of honor. There are actually quite a few more like them.  New York should be ashamed when they compare themselves to Chicago in that department!

The Don, I read your posting above this and the one below. Spot on , on the one above. A little bit off slightly on the one below. Well let me explain, Here’s what i’m told via a credible source. Marco D’amico is the undisputed Top Boss of the Outfit. DiFronzo is Chairman. According to my source things where streamlined for 4 individuals (so they could avoid RICO or prison time) Solly D, Andriacchi, Jimmy Inendino, and Greedy P DiFronzo.

Here’s whats going on as of 2011 (but was installed a while ago). Elmwood Park Capo is Tony Dote but the Sub Chairman is “Snake Eyes” Greedy P… Cicero is run by Pudgy Matassa but the sub chairman is Solly D, (Solly C would be the 3rd man in Cicero actually). Albie Vena has Grand Ave with Andriacchi being the sub chairman of Grand. Toots Caruso is the capo of 26th street but the sub chairman is Jimmy I. 

Let me explain this so you understand the concept of what is going on here. If you look at it through a heiarchy.. Marco is at the Top. The 4 sub chairman I named are essentially more powerful than the capos of each street crew, but dont have to worry about the hassle of running a street crew. Their in a postion to soley collect .. like John DiFronzo from just Marco. 

Those 4 sub chairs are like minature John DiFronzo’s within their own crews. The Dominant street crew is Elmwood Park so Marco is basically insulated by Tony Dote and Greedy P and the Chairman (the Ricca position)  John DiFronzo is supremly insulated and he only trust 3 individuals and that is Marco, Greedy and Joey DiFronzo.

I’m also told Joey DiFronzo serves as a go between for John and Marco and is in a consigliere role (what Lombardo was after 1992). He consults with John everyday at their brothers place of business (JKS) and then relays messages through Tony Dote to Marco and vice versa.

Marco although well insulated i’m told cannot find it in himself to retire to Marco Island or Costa Rica or wherever the hell it is he has all that property. I’m told he is very heavly involved in Gambling and is hands on. He will not leave for the sunshine “full time” like Black Sam did in 1989 and run the Outfit through Dote (like Black Sam did w/ Jim Marcello).

The Outfit is still very very involved in off shore gambling and a strong MadeGuy one Joey DeVita reports directly to Tony Dote with large sums of cash every month. Only to insulate The Chairman and Top Boss.

Also i’m told the “disappearance” of LT (zizzo) was Marco’s way of telling everybody to get in line with the new regime on the horizon. I’m told it had nothing to do with Cicero or Sarno. But Marco saw LT as a viable threat. It should be noted Marco is NOW the video poker czar also. Your thoughts The Don, anyone on anything ?

Black Angelo,  Very interesting and somewhat different from the old days.  Let me think about it and analyze it a bit more.  You are 100 % corect about the video poker business.  Cicero argued about having more control of it about 10 years ago.  DiFronzo consulted with his trusted partner on the top level ( Lombardo ) and made an amicable arrangement.  However, obviously, since about 2006, Elmwood Park took control with the Top Day to Day Boss Marco running it.  Any  Day to Day Boss has to be hands on to a certain degree or he loses his power base and becomes like one of those stupid Bosses in New York.  That’s why some of them got killed in the past. Elmwood Park is the power base.  How it is structured beyond that seems to have changed according to you, but nevertheless, The power base is Elmwood Park with  DiFronzo & Marco.  I agree that  Zizzo disappeared to let Cicero know that because of Family Secrets, Elmwood Park would control Poker Machines.  Zizzo was stubborn.  He reinded me of Chuckie English in a way because he did not want to accept the fact that he no longer was direct with the Top Boss of the Outfit ( Cicero ).  He didn’t like the changing of the guard.  By the way, Zizzo’s car was left at Abruzzo’s in Melrose Park and he was supposed to have been going to a meeting on the North Side somewhere around Rush St. That is Elmwood Park’s territory. Translated: He was obviously going to meet with someone from Elmwood Park ( in my opinion) and never came back because it was already decided he had to go.  My relative did say that  because of the Family Secrets trial, some things were going to change. He also said Marco was going to be a big plus when he got out in 2005.  

Black Angelo,  Let me translate what you said about the slightly different structure. It’s a fucking Commission my friend. Think about it. Johnny is the Chair, Marco is the Boss of the Dominent Group, Elmwood Park, making him the Top Boss. Greedy Pete, Solly D., Andriacchi & Jimmy I. ( MAKE UP THE RULING BODY). Those 6 men are the Commission. Then you have the Capos, who are really like underbosses to each Commision member and then all the made guys who are supervisors some of whom report direct to the Top bosses like a ( Joey DiFronzo) . Then you have the soldiers and  associates who work either for them or do business with them in one way or another. Actually it’s not much different than before if you think of it in those terms. 

Yes, bookmaking. I never heard that Lee had any involvement in construction.

Nothing. I linked the piece because a source once told me that the DiFronzos were most intrigued by the article on Mrs. John DiFronzo.

Joe and readers, here are some photo arrays submitted as evidence at the trial. You may have seen them already. I am curious if anyone can identify some of the ?’s. 

http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/hot/familySecrets/2007_07_02/fbi_photo_array_group3.pdf
1. the German
2. Tony Spilotro
3. Fecarotta
4. ?
5. ?
6. ?
7. Fecarotta
8. Porky
9. Victor Spilotro
10. ?
11. ?
12. Joe Lump
13. ? (looks familiar)

http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/hot/familySecrets/2007_06_28/fbi_photo_array_group_1.pdf
1. ?
2. ?
3. ?
4. ? (looks familiar)
5. Joe Lump
6. ?
7. ?
8. Victor Spilotro
9. ? (looks familiar)
10. ?
11. ?
12. Tony Spilotro
13. ?
14. ? (looks familiar)

http://www.justice.gov/usao/iln/hot/familySecrets/2007_06_28/fbi_photo_array_group2.pdf
1. ?
2. ? (looks familiar)
3. ?
4. ?
5. (left) Joe Lump (LOL)
6. (right) Homeless John Fecarotta
7. ?
8. ?
9. the German
10. Tony Spilotro
11. Victor Spilotro
12. Joe Lump
13. ?
14. ?
15. ?
16. Porky
17. ?
18. ?
19. Turk
20. ?
21. ?
22. Irv Weiner
23. Angelo LaPietra
24. ?
25. Chuckie Nicoletti

Chitowndago,  You are a man among men! Sometimes we all have to do something that isn’t pleasant at the moment in order to achieve a more positive outcome in the end.

Horsey,  Where are the other two charts we did previously? Do you want to do a third chart from 1986 to 1993? If you don’t it’s okay, I was just wondering because you had not answered my question as of yet.

Fuck Horsey, wasn’t you just complaining about “Rick’s” long post (his was extremly extremly long though).. And then you go and post this ! I’m afraid if someone gave you all the names for these Outfit members and associates it would be just as long lol. But on your 2nd array of photos # 9 is Joe Andriacchi.

Black Angelo,  Did you see my postings below about the Commision in 2011? it was in response to you. Your thoughts?

The Don, yes I saw it and was going to comment. Your right the 4 guys that are Super Capo’s (sub chairman) – Pete DiFronzo, Jimmy Inendino, Solly DeLaurentis and Joe Andriacchi are all part of a ruling panel. But those 4 would never meet together at one time and or with Marco or Johnny. Those postions are more of a good will and age-rank position.

Marco i’m told still meets with Johnny, Tony Dote, Pudgy Matassa, and Solly D. In 2003 when Jim Marcello got out Pudgy was his driver and confidant. Marcello was off the streets by April of 2005. In July of 2005 Marco was released (he did some half-way house time) but he would consult with Marco by the end of that very year. Solly was released in early 2006. Pudgy has been this/close with him ever since. He usually drives Solly. By the end of 2006 Zizzo “LT” was missing. The Mover did not waste any time in so many words.

Not sure how long Marco has been Top Boss, but i’m told it has been a lot longer than we think. He was also briefly Top Boss for about a year in 1993/94.. because Johnny DiFronzo said so before he went to prison. I’m told Johnny never gave two shits about being the Top Boss and had Marco not went away in OCt. of 94 he would of been the Man forever. Pete DiFronzo and Andriacchi we’re like Battaglia and Bucceri and Lombardo was a sub-chairman over Andriacchi and surved as general counsel to Marco. But Lombardo had to be careful because he was still on parole in 1993. Marco and Elmwood Park had the dominant street crew then.

I recall Frank Calabrese telling his son Frank Jr. That the Feds had it all wrong about who was top boss and that they’d (meaning the Feds) be surprised who was the boss and he told his son it was not Andriacchi or Lombardo. (he used code words for them like the Pancake Flipper or Builder East/West).

I agree with your assesment. Very logical and realistic. You’re absolutley spot on ( as you have told me many times ) about Frank Calabrese, who was a very strong made man in the 26th St. Crew and had been in that position well before 1983, Trust me on that point. Frank did say those words you described and he did refer to Lombardo & Andriacchi as builder East & West. the Four high ranking sub chairmen is a very good and very fair idea. I know Johnny instituted it. Johnny is a very cunning yet fair Boss.My only thought about the whole scenario, is that I’m surprised Pudgy is part of the Cicero Crew. The old North Side Crew was swallowed up by Elmwood Park. I assumed Pudgy was with Elmwwod Park, not Cicero. However, You may be right because I know a couple of the Guys left over from the Heights went to 26th St., but at least one made guy left over went to Cicero. My relative mentioned something about one of the Heights men was with Marcello now. So, it’s quite possible one of the old Rust St. made men went to Cicero and the other two went to Elmwood Park. Your thoughts?   

During that brief one year in the 1990′s, Marco was ( Johnny’s man ) and spoke for him briefly, but so did Willie & Greedy Pete. Marco became a Boss, ( in my opinion) shortly after he got out of prison. Why do I say at that time? Because my relative used different wording. Back in the 1980′s, after Cerone was gone, he used the words  ‘ Johnny’s man ‘. You and I know exactly what that means. Now, fast forward to 2005, My relative used different words,  He said something to the effect ‘ Watch now that Marco is getting out, there will be some big changes ‘. In my opinion, that’s when Marco became a Boss. By the way, he always spoke highly of Marco & I got the impression that He and Castaldo worked on occasion with Marco on special ‘things’ back in the very late 1980′s early 1990′s.

Most of the ones I recognize are the individuals that we all know. I will look at it again a little better tomorrow and confer with some others.

The Don, Their is no doubt Pudgy was Rush Street up till 1992 and after Salano’s death.. he went with the Northside and what consisted of those crews. Things got interesting when Jim Marcello was released from prison in 2003. Pudgy was with him ALL THE TIME in 2004. Surving as a driver and confidant. I seen them two with my own eyes in Melrose Park all the time. Eating !

Pudgy (who is now over 300 lbs) was aligned with Cicero because of the video poker business. Fast Forward to 2006.. he again latches on to another Cicero guy one Salvatore “Solly” DeLaurentis. We have a pattern. Pudgy of course has always been close with Solly (even in the 1980s).. the two were puportdedly Made together in the same ceremony.

I told my source I felt Pudgy would be with Elmwood Park.. but my source said essentially he is because out “west” (meaning Elmwood Park – Marco/Johnny) calls the shots. I guess after the disappearance of LT Zizzo on the direction of the Chairman and Top Boss Cicero swallowed in Melrose Park and named Pudgy the Capo of all that territory (including Lake County).

Believe it or not but their are some killers and crew members still out their from Melrose Park who remain loyal to the old Black Sam regime and Jim Marcello. But they dont defy Marco or Pudgy. 

Pudgy serves as Solly D’s buffer who would be the Chairmain of that territory. but sub to Marco and Johnny. By the way Don their is no way in hell Mike Fat Sarno was ever a boss or capo… if at all he was Made and ran a franchise out of Cicero and got a piece of the video poker action.

When folks are calling Fat Sarno a mob boss that shows you how well insulated Marco and Johnny really are. My source loves Fat Sarno but laughs at the mention of him being a mob boss. He’s about to get alot of time for nothin. He always tells me over Sicilian espresso “its a shame what the Feds are doing to him”.. meaning Sarno.

The Don, Their is no doubt Pudgy was Rush Street up till 1992 and after Salano’s death.. he went with the Northside and what consisted of those crews. Things got interesting when Jim Marcello was released from prison in 2003. Pudgy was with him ALL THE TIME in 2004. Surving as a driver and confidant. I seen them two with my own eyes in Melrose Park all the time. Eating !

Pudgy (who is now over 300 lbs) was aligned with Cicero because of the video poker business. Fast Forward to 2006.. he again latches on to another Cicero guy one Salvatore “Solly” DeLaurentis. We have a pattern. Pudgy of course has always been close with Solly (even in the 1980s).. the two were puportdedly Made together in the same ceremony.

I told my source I felt Pudgy would be with Elmwood Park.. but my source said essentially he is because out “west” (meaning Elmwood Park – Marco/Johnny) calls the shots. I guess after the disappearance of LT Zizzo on the direction of the Chairman and Top Boss Cicero swallowed in Melrose Park and named Pudgy the Capo of all that territory (including Lake County).

Believe it or not but their are some killers and crew members still out their from Melrose Park who remain loyal to the old Black Sam regime and Jim Marcello. But they dont defy Marco or Pudgy. 

Pudgy serves as Solly D’s buffer who would be the Chairmain of that territory. but sub to Marco and Johnny. By the way Don their is no way in hell Mike Fat Sarno was ever a boss or capo… if at all he was Made and ran a franchise out of Cicero and got a piece of the video poker action.

When folks are calling Fat Sarno a mob boss that shows you how well insulated Marco and Johnny really are. My source loves Fat Sarno but laughs at the mention of him being a mob boss. He’s about to get alot of time for nothin. He always tells me over Sicilian espresso “its a shame what the Feds are doing to him”.. meaning Sarno.

Dear Dark,
The thickness (or thinness) of my skin differs, depending on who is tormenting me. A stranger (or a third party ‘claiming’ to be aware of information purported by a person close to me) would cause my skin to be as thick as the Earths crust under Mt. Everest. However, The Don (who I feel a reasonable familiarity with) had purported to appreciate my work for a very long time. When he turned, I felt somewhat hurt. In other words, it felt as if someone who would otherwise be supportive was insulting me. If my demonstration of experiencing a human emotion seemed offensive, I apologize. Admittedly, I tend to be less professional in the threads. To me, message threads are similar to the ‘behind the scenes’ pieces you see on television, when a professional lets their hair down and kicks back.
I am the first to admit that my extortion story is “very strange to say the least.” However, a story that seems “very strange” is not always a tall tail.
Thank you for you input.
Sincerely,
JF

Dear Dark,
The thickness (or thinness) of my skin differs, depending on who is tormenting me. A stranger (or a third party ‘claiming’ to be aware of information purported by a person close to me) would cause my skin to be as thick as the Earths crust under Mt. Everest. However, The Don (who I feel a reasonable familiarity with) had purported to appreciate my work for a very long time. When he turned, I felt somewhat hurt. In other words, it felt as if someone who would otherwise be supportive was insulting me. If my demonstration of experiencing a human emotion seemed offensive, I apologize. Admittedly, I tend to be less professional in the threads. To me, message threads are similar to the ‘behind the scenes’ pieces you see on television, when a professional lets their hair down and kicks back.
I am the first to admit that my extortion story is “very strange to say the least.” However, a story that seems “very strange” is not always a tall tail.
Thank you for you input.
Sincerely,
JF

Buddy Ciotti was another person who could not wait to see Marco get out.

Michael made me laugh the other day. He told me that all I have
done is “write some articles and file a lawsuit that was dismissed.” And,
because he refuses to deny that we are friends, he cannot go anywhere without
feeling tension. Then, take Gino Marino (Johnny DiFronzo’s man), who obviously
parties with a known federal witness who put away (his father) Outfit heavy
Frank Calbrese Sr (for life); and they splash around on the internet photographs of themselves out in public celebrating, while “no one cares a bit.” Michael claims that he “just doesn’t get it.” LOL

I agree with Michael 100%! LOL

You’re absolutely right. My relative liked Buddy and ‘ Little Rocky’, a soldier who was a collector. Rocky ( I forgot his last name) went away on the video poker deal with Centracchio. ( Who oddly enough really had nothing to do with poker machines! ) Ciotti was a good guy ( despite being a gangster). LOL Joe, I read what you said up above. That exchange was better than any article you EVER wrote about it, especially the affivadit from the attorney and the last posting. The whole thing bothered me too. However, a couple people have now stopped ragging on me.  Again, I’m sorry, but in the long run, it’ll be okay. Yes, it’s a strange unusual story, However, that doesn’t mean you didn’t get screwed over one way or another.

Rocky Circelli

Black Angelo,  In my opinion, Sarno is a made guy ( no question ). However, he is not a Boss. He ran a franchise with soldiers working under him. The fact that he used a fucking Biker to do some semi Heavy work proves it. No Boss would ever do it that way.  However, as I’ve said before, according to the stupid  News Media, every made guy in Chicago is a Boss! So, in 2011, you have at least 40 Bosses in the City that are active on the street.

Black Angelo,  Also, do not forget, Black Sam, Marcello, Zizzo, Chiaramonte etc. were all part of the Extended Cicero Crew. Sure, there was a reference to Merose Park, but that was only to differentiate between Joe Nick and the Top Boss Black Sam and the made men direct with him. As my relative once said when I questioned him about it, his reply was  ‘ They are extended under the same Roof ‘. That’s how I learned what extended meant!  I used to think Carlisi and Ferriola were two different crews. They were not at all. They were one big extended crew, ( Cicero ).  Carlisi was the Boss of the Crew and Top Boss of the entire Outfit & Ferriola was the Capo within that same crew.

Yep, That’s it. A real Blue collar rough looking guy. I remember seeing him in Abruzzo’s in Melrose Park years ago. Very quiet He looked very unhappy. He knew he was going to jail. Well, I wouldn’t have looked happy either if it were me.

I don’t think Gino will be taking any more pictures with Frank Jr. ( the thief ). Also, I believe only the thief put that picture on his facebook. Gino didn’t post the picture anywhere ( to my knowledge ).  Lastly, It’s true Michael didn’t deny being friends with Joe one time, but he said some derogatory things about DiFronzo in the articles  which of course Gino never would or has done. Michael calling his Boss an asshole and then having someone print it is his biggest problem, especially in that world where respect is always a big issue.    

The Don,

I put the charts back up on Scribd. Just click the links. I’m using Scribd as the publishing platform so readers who have issues with small print can adjust the size of the text using the magnify feature on the toolbar, which should appear at the bottom of the screen.

Here is the Taylor Street link: http://www.scribd.com/doc/73470041/Taylor-St

Here is the Cicero link: http://www.scribd.com/doc/73470040/1974-1985-revised

I had to take them down before because someone was posting vulgar comments, pretending to be another user who used to be a problem at ANP. 

Joe, to bad Buddy did not live to see that day. unfortunate. Why could he not wait till Marco got out.. did it have anything to do with Gambling (Video Poker) or that Marco got screwed ?

The Don, Forgive me. I’ve been calling those guys Melrose Park for 30 years. Its essentially where Obrien comes from.

And even though they was Cicero Ext. they will always be Melrose Park in my mind. Kind of like the Cicero Guys Solly D, Rocky I, Joe Nick where all Taylor Street (originally) just as Tony Borse, Butch P, and Turk where Taylor also (had they lived past 1979/80 they would be something entirely different in the mid 1980s let only 2011). Jimmy I is 26th street but he to is Taylor Street going back.

Black Sam’s base was Melrose P as was Obriens… but your correct he was Cicero Ext. Understand i’m old school in that since my friend. When Black Sam became Top Boss (or even going back to Obrien when he took over) the two cities where one in the same.

As a matter of curiosity, Joe, I am wondering if you have an opinion on whether or not Mr. Marino would be considered made?

Thank you from the bottom of my heart, Joe.

Obviously, Lee was a powerhouse, but on a personal level he was humble. However, those around him thought he was a powerhouse. On the other hand, Lee tried to be as humble as possible.

Actually, Joe revealed quite a lot about Lee in what he chose NOT to write about–the mark of a true “man of letters.” (I am referring to Joe Fosco.) When you said, “Impressed with the young man, DiFronzo arranged for Lee to meet Outfit leader Joe “Gags” Gagliano,” what is implied is that he (John “No Nose” DiFronzo) was extremely impressed with Lee’s tradition of stomping some major ass now and then, unfortunately. DiFronzo probably even heard about the time Lee chased down a pack of rowdy teenagers (young turks) who vandalized the property of an elderly woman who was friends with Lee’s wife, bless her heart. Yes, a verbal altercation with Lee could be as terrifying as physical punishment at his hands, unfortunately. When Lee got it in his head that it was about time he “made a believer” out of some poor bastard, woe to that guy, whoever he was (LOL). Lee was said to be able to knock guys out with an open-hand whack upside the head, unfortunately. My source even told me that he once got on Lee’s nerves and Lee shot him a look, and he began to feel light-headed because of it. (Very scary to say the least, obviously).

Joe, was Vic Tartan there to say goodbye to Lee, or did Marco have him wait out in the car? I imagine that Vic Tartan wanted to stand as close as possible to Marco at all times (in case any trouble unfolded), but in his heart of hearts, Vic Tartan probably wanted to say goodbye to Lee too, even though he didn’t know Lee as good as the made guys. Lee and Vic Tartan both had a nice side to them and they both happily enjoyed humorous behavior. But it wasn’t a joke when Lee got mad at someone, that’s for sure (LMFAO). Yes, of course Lee loved pranks and practical jokes but ONLY in moderation. Lee would NOT have fit in (at all) with the Grand Avenue guys because THERE WAS A LIMIT to Lee’s humor. I’m sorry to report that there were times when the Grand Avenue crew guys would clown around (non-stop) for two or three days straight because they were a bunch of laughing hyenas, regretfully. At one time, they even talked about opening a members only comedy joint with cocktail waitresses and the whole nine yards, but Joey “O” Aiuppa IMMEDIATELY vetoed it, thank goodness. Aiuppa and Lee had more self-respect than that.

Of course, Lee’s fighting prowess sometimes clashed with his gentleness, luckily. Lee was DISGUSTED when he heard the now-famous story about how one of the Grand Avenue guys tore open the front of restaurant worker’s shirt and spit wine all over the man’s bare chest (just to make Lombardo laugh), only MINUTES before Joey “O” Aiuppa was to arrive for a “sit-down” (aka, meeting). I understand that through the intercession of Andriacchi, Lee saw to it that this person received an apology and several new shirts. (Thank goodness.)

Another thing about Lee was that he was dashingly handsome, fortunately for his wife. But Lee was a devoted husband and doting father, which I’m sure disappointed many of the local single ladies and filthy tramps, alike. I heard one story from my pop’s friend’s wife (who lived on Lee’s street in Wood Dale) that one time when some sex fiend type of prowler was “at large” in the area (LOL), Lee heroically promised the women in his neighborhood that this deviant wouldn’t come knocking at their doors. And it melted their hearts, that lucky bastard.

Joe, thank you from the bottom of my heart for writing this article. You filled in many of the gaps in my personal knowledge of none other than Eligio “Lee Mags” Magnafichi. For example, I thought Michael spent his whole life in DuPage County, until you clarified that he lived in Elmwood Park, Illinois, in an apartment house located on Fullerton Avenue. (LMFAO)

PS: Are you going to write a Vic Tartan article?

Happy Thanksgiving aka “Turkey Day” (LOL)

Teets

There are two articles that I want to see -Vic “Big Vic” Tartan (the Mover’s driver) and the other one is Joseph “Joey L” Lombardi (the Outfit’s 2 in 1 Beast and Beauty).

In other words, are you suggesting that the attention i focused on Gino’s photo could have prompted his boss to say something to him about it?
Good point about Micheal, however, if he tells Johnny that “Fosco is full of s***,” would Johnny not be inclined to believe his employee over me?

According to facebook (people who visit ANP through fb), 60
percent of my (fb) viewers are female. I was surprised to learn this. 

I understand that Vic Tartan was a nice
person. However, the only notable thing about him that “stick’s out”
in my mind is something that is not appropriate for ANP. Although I never saw
it with my own eyes, “Big Vic” was the right description for him.

I do not believe that Vic was at Lee’s
bedside, at least not during the time the others who I have mentioned were
present.

As for writing something on Joe L, I would have to rely on The
Don for help.

Are they good looking.

Whatever discussion those two had, I have no idea. But DiFronzo knows deep down inside, Mike Mags most probably said those things about him out of sheer frustration.  I realize it was what they say in the legitimate world, ‘water cooler’ talk. That’s where some of the employees gather to get their cup of coffee and gripe about the Company, some of course worse than others. However, actions speak louder than words. Has Mike Mags been REactivated? I don’t think so………..

Horsey,  on the Tarlor St. Chart, is it possible to correct the Non – Italian Crew by switching Sam Alex with Gus Alex. in other words, Sam should the underboss. I don’t care what Roemer said, I agree with Joe, Sam was the underboss to Humphreys. Maybe it’s an oversite on your behalf, but for the third time, I was wondering if you want to do a third Chart from 1986 to 1993? Please respond to my question. If the answer is no, it’s perfectly okay with me, no problem. The other two charts look good.  

Judging by the one we know (SQE), I would not try to turn ANP into an internet dating service.

Teets, great piece my friend. Lee was definatly a man. Vic Tartan was a man amognst men also. Although Teets he really did not start driving Marco around until early 2006 (he drove Marco until 2008, when Vic suddenly died). I believe Marco paid for the funeral. But Vic and Marco spent many times at Oak Brook drinking establishments (and Marco even got him a pinky ring).

They would be seen on Taylor Street together alot at Marco’s Near West SAC club where Marco would show of his poker and gin rummy skills. Guys like Gunner Catapono, Sal Ignoffo, Joe Caccamo,  Big Tone DeFazio and guys with last names like DeVito, Spizzirri, Fatigato, and others like Al Luciano, Nick Caruso sr. and jr. would instantly pay homage to Marco when he entered the Taylor Street Club. Rudy Fratto (a due paying member) would even wait around the club awaiting “The Mover’s” arrival with Vic T lol. We’re talkin hundreds and hundreds of guys (and a handful of woman) that would wait for Marco and Vic’s arrival lol. You could see the pride on Vic’s face when he was in the presence of Marco.

Black Angelo & Teets,  Type in on Google Search ‘ 7 Accused Of Threats Linked To Juice Loans ‘.   You will find an article in January of 1993.  In the article it states Lombardi’s age incorrectly.  At that time he was 56 years old.  This is to follow up our discussion about Sarno.  Your instincts about Sarno’s stature are very accurate.  In 1993, Sarno & Cataudella were soldiers in the Cicero Crew. Castaldo & Lombardi had a pretty good Juice Franchise going and brought Sarno & Cataudella in on some of the Collections.  The other three soldiers were John Rainone ( 59 years old ), John Spizzirri & Robert Ruscitti, ( Elmwood Park ).  There were a couple of others who did not get indicted on this particular deal. Sarno’s size was a good attribute.  What’s the point of this posting?   Sarno was not a made guy in 1993, neither was Cataudella.  They were loaned to Castaldo & Lombardi for some special Collections with the approval of Cicero.  In 2009 or whenever Sarno was indicted, he was a made guy by THAT time, but was NOT  the Boss of the Cicero Faction. No way.

Yeah, we can do the chart. Maybe after the holiday. And I’ll fix the Gus/Sam Alex thing when I get a chance. 

As we get closer and closer to the present time, more and more of the individuals on the chart are going to be alive, which means will have to include some kind of disclaimer or something. I’ll have to think about it.

I agree. We can can just say it’s our opinion just like the dumb assholes in the news media who think every Guy in Cook County is a Boss. Did you know there are over 6 million Bosses in Chicago? Every guy walking down the Street is a Boss.

THANK YOU!

Nice!

I just want to say Happy Thanksgiving to everybody, in case I’m too busy to post on here later.

Chitown Dago,  Say hello to your Grandpa for me and tell him Happy Thanksgiving from the Don!   By the way, since you’re a boxer, I watched the Thrilla from Manilla Fight last night on T.V.  Nobody could take a punch like Joe Frazier.  Even Ali said after that fight that he never hit a man so many times and he wouldn’t go down.  Years later during an interview with Ali, the reporter poked fun at Frazier thinking Ali would go along with it.  Ali got real upset and told the guy ‘ Only I can make fun of Joe Frazier, not you. You didn’t have to fight him. Joe Frazier was the toughest man I ever met in my life! ‘ 

Thank you. Same to you and all the others.

The Don,

I’ve been noticing that lately you post your comments at odd hours. Do you work a 3rd shift position or something? Anyway, go ahead and describe how you envisage the next chart as far as the arrangement of the boxes and names and so on anytime after tomorrow.

Likewise. Are you familiar with an old user named Harlem Playboy? He used to post these holiday messages once in a while in which he’d name everyone in the threads and conclude his remarks with a link to some YouTube video that had nothing to do ANP. One time I think he linked to a Taio Cruz video or something. It was strange but funny in a weird way.  

Speaking of an old subscriber, who remembers Vin-something-or-other? I miss him. I wonder if he is still around, perhaps as someone else.

That’s one of my favorite fights. Frazier was a great man. I had the pleasure of running into him on a couple of occasions. He was so nice. Always took the time to sign tons of autographs. Ali was a great boxer. I lost a lot of respect for Ali for the shit he put Frazier through. I don’t think Frazier ever forgave Ali for that until very late in his life.
I remember when Ali carried the Olympic torch to light the fire, Frazier said they should have thrown Ali in it. lol!
I’ll say hello to my Gramps. I will see him tomorrow for the Holiday.

LOL. I remember that. “Video posts & Nick Gio” posts galore!

2nd set  #1 Angelo Volpe.

I will have to look at it again. I knew Angelo Volpe. I met him at Joey Kong’s house a few times. He was a close friend of my dad’s. I knew his a** hole brother Dominick too. Dominick’s son Sandy is a nice man (regardless of his dad).

For the person who asked about Vic: my source just informed
me that Vic Tartan visited Lee at home when he was dying a few different times.
Every time he presented himself to Lee’s home, he Vic with Vito Rizzo.

Vin was confused about some things. (lol)

  HORSEY,   The title for Chart #3 will be 1986 to 1993.  You can use the same format of 6 street Crews.  Some of the names will obviously be different.  The Hierarchy names will be as follows:  Cicero: Top Boss, Sam Carlisi, personal underboss Jimmy Marcello, Capo Joe Ferriola, underboss Rocky Infelice.  Elmwood Park:  Underboss of Entire Outfit, John DiFronzo, personal underboss Willie Messino, Capo Lee Magnafichi, underboss Joe Andriachi.  Grand Ave.:  Capo, Mooch Eboli, underboss Vincent Cozzo.  26th St.:  Capo, Jimmy LaPietra, underboss, John Monteleone.  North Side/ Rush St.:  Capo, Vince Solano, underboss Joey DiVarco.  Chicago Heights: Capo, Al Tocco, underboss Dominic Palermo.

HORSEY,  Also, I believe there are TWO versions of Chart #1 floating out there and TWO versions of Chart #2 floating out there.  Let’s just have one version of each. CORRECTIONS for Chart #1:  In the big Taylor St. Box, under Fiore Bucciere insert underboss, Turk Torello.  Under Sam Battaglia, insert underboss Phil Alderisio.  Non Italian Crew, Switch Sam & Gus Alex.  CORRECTIONS for Chart #2 :  Under Joe Ferriola, insert underboss Rocky Infelice.  Under John DiFronzo, insert underboss Joe Andriacchi.  Also, in Chart #2, Make the Elmwood Park lettering bigger than the 4 crews below it but still smaller than the lettering for Cicero. Thanks.

Group 2-#3 Pete Gushi

LOL

Happy Thanksgiving all! 

Dear Joe, Black Angie, Green Angie, Vin, Vic, Horsey and Mr. JingleDonkey and everyone else . . . Happy Turkey Day!!! Gobble Gobble

Dear H&2,
Thank you!
I would like to send a holiday greeting to SQE (and all of her fellow trailer park dwellers).

Here’s hoping SQE doesn’t die in a tragic turkey frying accident when her crystal ball accidentally drops in the fryer. Gobble gobble everyone.
Love,
Five finger discount man.

lol

Happy Thanksgiving, Joe and readers.

LOL, likewise. Are you making a comeback?

I’ve taken on working a third shift selling crack on the corner of Division & Central.  No, all kidding aside,  there’s been some extra bullshit above the usual everday ordinary bullshit that has come up lately which has made me go to bed later.  Let’s just say a couple people don’t like me posting on here and think I am a fool for doing it.  However, those issues have gotten better since that last question/answer dialogue with Joe.  I enjoy posting on here and anything I say doesn’t hurt anybody.

I wonder if Nick Rada was looking for you the night/morning he shot his gun (for crack). lol

He was actually looking for Dr. Giacchino because he’ll cut him a better deal than I would give him!  LOL

I should have known. lol

Joe,  I hope you had a nice Thanksgiving.  I wanted to give you more of an insight into my relative’s character. He is a black & white type of street guy.  Either you’re his friend or you’re not his friend.  Either you do what you say you were going to do or he’ll get upset.  There is very little middle ground.  Also, he does keep his word and expects others to do the same even if the deal is not a good one.  For example, if you were to have borrowed money from him & Castaldo in the past at 5% interest a week, he would expect you to honor the deal you made and pay his collector every week.  However, in your situation, for example, he would never try to con or lie or swindle someone out of money.  Despite his obvious character flaws, he did have his own code of ethics that were not all bad. He would never betray a friend. He might argue with him and never talk to him again over some realatively minor thing, but never purposely betray him.  He would never have been involved with Rudy & and the other two associates in any outright fraud or deception. That was not his style.  If you were his friend, he would try to help you even if it involved other Outfit Guys.  He would never have dealt directly with narcotics. He was a man’s man.  However, I do believe he was capable of doing heavy work and He would come after you if a debt was not paid. He was one of the most unique men I ever knew in my life.   

Dear H2,
I appreciate a great deal of the information he adds.

Dear The Don,
My holiday dinner was great. I spent it with the two most important female blood relatives that I have. I hope your holiday was good.
Your relative and Willie sound very similar.

Harlem & 22nd,  I enjoy talking with Black also, but I don’t understand why you have a clip of the Donnie Brasco movie? I scrolled to where you suggested.  Are you comparing him to Al Pacino or Johnny Depp in the movie? Please explain the connection if you don’t mind me asking?

The Don, meet Harlem Playboy. Part of his routine is posting links to YouTube clips of uncertain importance.

It looks like over Thanksgiving weekend, the Frank Calabrese Jr. story made a splash (for some reason) on the other side of the pond.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/25/frank-calabrese-jr-mobster-shopped-dad?newsfeed=true

Well Horsey,  It looks like the U.K. News Media is full of exaggerations and inaccuracies just like the American news Media. There have been over 1,000 Oufit related murders in the last 80 years, not 3,000. in the Godfather movies, there NEVER was a scene of anybody getting made into the Mafia. Michael Corleone was acknowledged as being made when he killed Sollozzo & the Police Captain.  Same for Rocco Lampone when he shot Paulie Gatto from behind in the car while Clemenza was taking a piss.  There was NO making Ceremony ever in any of the three Movies.  F.Y.I., my relative didn’t think the Godfather movie was realistic at all.  He thought ‘ A Bronx Tale ‘ was much more realistic.

The Don, to add to that Frank Sr did not participate in the Spilotro Murders as stated in that erroneous filled article. And your right there is never a making ceremony in the Godfather. There is one in the Sopranos. But we are talking Hollywood and East Coast inasmuch.

Anyhow There is something fishy about Frank jr. i’m just gonna put that out there. You know he claims to love his Uncle Nick. But he was trying to put both of them away for LIFE. He never thought his Uncle Nick would flip. “Somebody” did not want Nick or Frank Sr. back on the streets. Frank Jr can not be trusted. But he got a pass from what i hear.

boy, that article was a piece of crap. Anything to sell a book i guess. I also have been hearingthat frank jr.s flipping was part of a scheme to keep senior locked up Black Angelo.

Black Angelo,  Knowing the way the Oufit works,  if Frank Jr. ( the thief ) got some kind of pass from anybody in the Oufit, it would have been from his Boss, Toots Caruso who would have been challenged by the Calabrese brothers if Nick had not flipped. Frank Jr. After he had been used for that purpose)  then would have possibly ‘ Disappeared ‘ .  All the Bosses in the Outfit know who and what Frank Jr. is all about. You cannot fool those men. the Bosses do not respect drug users who would steal from their OWN father. They might use him for a purpose, but would NEVER trust or respect him. NEVER. As far as  Frank Sr. is concerned, he accepted Jimmy LaPietra & Johnny Apes as the Boss & Underboss of 26th St. Group.  I’m not so sure he had the same feeling for Toots Caruso. Toots Caruso, Leo & Bruno are strong with their men plus they have Jimmy I.  That’s my POSSIBLE opinion if you’re asking me. Your thoughts?

The quote about the Godfather making ceremony is referring to Mario Puzzo’s book, not the film. It’s legit; it was taken verbatim from the book ‘Family Secrets’ by Jeff Coen. 

Ringwalk,  Show me in the Godfather Book where there is a Making Ceremony and I’ll pay you. I don’t care what Jeff Cohen said because he probably never read the book. In the book, Mario Puzo talks a couple of times about  ’ making your bones’  but there is NEVER a ‘ Making Ceremony’.

Ringwalk,  I don’t care what Jeff Cohen said in his book.  There never was a ‘Making Ceremony’ or even talk of a ‘Making Ceremony’ in the Godfather Book written by Mario Puzo.  What was mentioned a couple of times was someone proving themselves and ‘ Making Their Bones ‘,  that was it.  If you can find talk of a ‘Making Ceremony’ in the book let me know and I will pay you because it ain’t there. 

Joe,  Sorry for the duplicate, For some reason the posting above me didn’t go through right away like usual. You can delete the one above this posting if you desire. Thanks

Okay, That’s different. However, Frank Sr. is absolutely wrong. He’s not remembering the book accurately.  However, that’s not the first time he was wrong. He sure was wrong about his son which was a lot worse than being wrong about a passage in a book!

LOL

Eh, I’m sure Jr. isn’t a great guy but his father was pretty much the lowest of the low IMO. Everyone hated Frank Sr. His other son Kurt refused to defend him against charges that he treated the kids terribly, instead choosing to walk out of the courtroom, and of course Nick hated him too and testified that he “put the kids through hell.” Obviously I don’t know him but from the books I’ve read he sounds like a revolting human being. When the judge handed sentences down he actually went out of his way to address Marcello and Lombardo’s (admittedly few) redeeming qualities while referring to Calabrese Sr. as a “toxic creature.” 

Ringwalk,  I hear you. I could never do the things Frank Sr. did in his life. However, at least with Senior, what you saw was what you got. In my humble opinion, his son Frank Jr. is the lowest thing walking around Chicago. A lying thieving drug addict. What he did to his father was strictly to insure that he would not have to pay for the consequences of stealing his father’s money. That was the only reason.  Which one is worse is just a matter of opinion.

It’s possible it was just to avoid paying back the dough. It’s hard to tell what’s what when you’re dealing with layer upon layer of congenital liars! I read Family Secrets and I also read Jr.’s book, Operation Family Secrets. It’s hard to get at the truth. Frank Sr. appears to have been a very domineering man who lied to, manipulated and used everyone around him, including his family, without shame, and he was more than willing to let Jr. take the rap for him–do time–on one ocassion, among a bunch of other stuff that would make your head spin. I guess we’ll agree to disagree. If I’d been born to Sr. I think the least of my problems would be drug addiction; I’d probably be doing life. Frank Sr. of course also was a liar and a thief. I don’t see drug addiction quite as bad as slitting men’s throats or stomping them to death but as you say I suppose it’s a matter of opinion and doesn’t really matter what either of us thinks. Sr. as you probably know is still in solitary confinement for threatening to kill Marcus Funk at the trial. 

It’s possible it was just to avoid paying back the dough. It’s hard to tell what’s what when you’re dealing with layer upon layer of congenital liars! I read Family Secrets and I also read Jr.’s book, Operation Family Secrets. It’s hard to get at the truth. Frank Sr. appears to have been a very domineering man who lied to, manipulated and used everyone around him, including his family, without shame, and he was more than willing to let Jr. take the rap for him–do time–on one ocassion, among a bunch of other stuff that would make your head spin. I guess we’ll agree to disagree. If I’d been born to Sr. I think the least of my problems would be drug addiction; I’d probably be doing life. Frank Sr. of course also was a liar and a thief. I don’t see drug addiction quite as bad as slitting men’s throats or stomping them to death but as you say I suppose it’s a matter of opinion and doesn’t really matter what either of us thinks. Sr. as you probably know is still in solitary confinement for threatening to kill Marcus Funk at the trial. 

The Don, Frank Sr. most definatly accepted Jimmy L and Apes as the boss/underboss of the 26th st crew. However heads would of butted with Toots Caruso had he been released. Frank Sr. is/was big on the age thing and it would of been hard for him to accept Toots as his boss or kick up his earnings to him. And Frank Sr was a tremendous earner.

And Frank jr. not only a theif, but also a greedy man. Frank jr and his brother like to call there own father greedy. But like you said, there is one BIG reason (and other small reasons) Jr. went stoolie on his dad and that is over money and not having to pay him back. Frank jr is a fucking liar, he even lied all through his book. Something does not add up because some of his estimates or numbers on the money he stole was not all given to his brothers Kurt or Nicky. Or even his mother. He lied about those estimates.

Also I’m told Frank Sr still has money out their and other OutfitGuys know this. Frank Jr may have paid for his safety from some of that money he stole and some of his fathers other hiding spots. That money they found in the Oak Brook mansion was nothing i’m told.

I do want to say this about Frank Sr. he was not perfect but he really cared about his sons. He would take them on trips to Vegas. Up to Lake Geneva whenever they wanted (although he made them do chores alot). But he was just a strict Italian father.

His kids (speciafaclly Jr. and Kurt) wanted to be in business with their father. But when the going got tough in the mid 90s with the indictimets and after Frank Jr stole his fathers money … now they want to say he was a repulisive indvidual and horrible father. Gimme a Fuckin Break ! I recall Frank Sr even being concerned for Frank Jr (once he was released). He did not want him messing around or getting arrested for bookmaking. Even Johnny DiFronzo liked Frank Sr. as a man and person and Johnny really dont like anybody !

Yes, That’s fair enough. I will say this: Frank Sr. did bad things in the life he chose which sometimes dictates some of those actions you described. Frank Sr.’s biggest mistake was bringing his son into the life. Big mistake. Years ago when I SUGGESTED I was somwhat interested in the life, my relative got upset with me and said I was too good to go into that life and I wasn’t that kind of person. He said to never bring that subject up again because it was out of the question. That’s what Frank Sr. should have said to his son years ago!  I think you’ll agree with me on that one.

Yes sir. I agree that was his biggest mistake of all. 

My relative liked Frank Senior. He used to refer to him as Frankie Boy.  All the Elmwood Park made men liked Frank and respected his toughness and good earning ability.  Frank should never have allowed his sons to be soldiers in the Outfit under his supervision.  He made a mistake there.  However, in his own way, he did care about his sons. I agree.  Also Black, don’t forget, Frank Jr. stole from his beloved Uncle Nicky also.  Some of that money that was buried in certain spots also belonged to Nick.  Nick was a made guy and junior partner in the Franchise.  You’re right when you say that Frank Jr. was ready to hurt his Father and Uncle.  It just so happened that the Uncle decided to flip.  You can bet Frank Jr. is still working for the Feds and him posting that picture of himself and Gino on his facebook was no accident!  Every move is calculated with the approval of the Feds. Your Thoughts? 

Black Angelo,   By the way,  Hope you had a nice Thanksgiving.  I would also like to add that what you told me last week about the 4 sub Chairmen is a very good and fair thing. It’s an improvement over the past.  In the past, the Boss of the crew that a prominent made man was with would have to make some kind of financial arrangement for him. Now, you have the Top Boss of the Outfit making sure 4 important men, 2 of whom did a lot of time for the Organization, have some kind of Advisor type role and with it income from their respective Crew.  Almost like an Outfit pension plan.  A Definite improvement from the past. DiFronzo is not selfish in this regard at all.

Joe, I sent you the makings of an early chart.  Would like to hear your feedback and maybe let HorseyF@rt look at it.  Also, some people in another forum said they’d love to see the sort of charts HF makes (without mentioning him by name).

HF, would you mind if I made a link for people on this other forum to view your charts?  There’s a few people asking to see some REAL Outfit charts, not a bunch of outdated inaccurate ones.  I can’t think of anyone who does them better.
 

Your relative was a man so it would make since he would like a man like Frank Sr. and i’m not so sure Frank Sr. originally did want his kids in his crew.

I remember very vividly being down on Rush Street in the late 1970s and his namesake son (Frank jr.) was throwing his weight around and using his name to get free drinks and a foothold on any or everything. Think he started using coke. Kurt on the other hand was a good kid, tough kid if he had to be. But he was a follower and that is what hurt him the most. He had this dad that was a mobster and a tough guy older sibling. He too would moonlight all over Rush Street and other mobsters would pay him respect because of his father.

I guess their dads way of guiding or protecting two unruly kids was to have them doing mundane mob stuff (on the fringes type of thing). Dont believe the hype on Frank sr. he was not that bad of a dad. He has 3 other sons that had nothing to do with the mob.

And YES Frank jr. was going for a double whammy and trying to lock both his dad and his Uncle Nicky up for life. Nick for all practical purposes is finished he wont get out of the fed joint until he is in his late 70s. I still have no idea why he even testified for the Feds. At the age of 67 he got 12 YEARS in prison. He might as well did LIFE like Bobby Salerno or Gabeet Bellavia (Real Men).

Frank Jr. was told to keep Frank Sr. and Nick off the streets by a higher up. And he succeded let me tell you. You know Frank Sr left alot of money on the street. Jimmy Marcello is off the streets, as is Lumpy. Know one benifited more than Marco Damico. Not that he had a problem with any of those men.

But Family Secrets was a joke. A joke on the Feds lol. And yes the 4 sub chairman is a very fair thing and also good for insulation for those 4 individuals. Like I said they dont have to be so hands on with the street crews but benifit with the nuptials and hopefully be well insulated from RICO. And Johnny and Marco are the most insulated of course. Your thoughts on anything stated?

Rick,

That sounds good, though The Don and even Black Angelo deserve credit, too. (Joe even offered some criticism.) The Don has a close relative who has roots in the now-defunct Taylor Street crew and really did a great job of explaining to other close readers of this site that the Outfit’s street crews are the essential components of the organization. If someone tries to conceptualize the Outfit in terms of a hierarchy with a succession of rank and file soldiers underneath (as in the case of the East Coast Families), then he or she can’t really understand how the Outfit works. The Don visualized the structure of the charts in a way to really emphasize the street crews, describing them for me in the threads, and I tried to flesh them out. 

Go ahead and provide the link for the Taylor Street chart, Rick. But I would appreciate it if you would hold off on linking to the Cicero chart because I have to revamp it entirely. Check back in a few days. (I should also add that there is a minor change to be made in the Taylor Street chart, too.)

Rick, I should add that the Taylor St. chart is supposed to be a chart of made guys only, with the exception of the Non-Italian crew, who were important but definitely not made. That said, there were some active made guys at the time who were left off the list but not very many. The Don, Joe, and Black Angelo can explain to you in detail that the number of made guys in Chicago has always been overstated by the media and law enforcement. They can also explain to you that the made guys here make heavy use of associates who are full-time Outfit connected crooks, but aren’t made. Some of these associates are Italian and some are not. Not all the Italians become made in Chicago. (This has led to many who’s who arguments in the threads.) Going back to Capone, the Outfit has always made heavy use of associates from different ethnic groups: Greeks, Jews, Polish, etc., which is why it has the reputation of being an equal opportunity employer. But the inner core of the Outfit are a group of 40 to 60 made members of Italian descent (who are typically killers and money makers). Because the Chicago model is different then NYC model, think of each Outfit made guy as the equivalent of a “captain” in one of the Five Families, as the Don would say. Each name on that chart is a serious guy. 

I’m posting this up here because the bottom of the threads get too narrow. I have a feeling Frank Jr.’s “Ex” might be one of the women in the “Chicago Mob Wives.”
Any thoughts? Ideas on who else might be?

I remember when Jr’s wife worked for Willie Messino and Nick Fosco Saviano (brother of Illinois State Representative Angelo “Skip” Fosco Saviano, when they owned Cafe Piaza in Elmwood Park, Illinois. She created an interesting reputation for herself. lol

HF, Thanks.  I know they’ll appreciate it and I’ll give you the credit, of course (along with The Don, BA and Joe).  I’ll let them know that the Taylor Street chart is subject to an update.  If I recall Sam Alex was higher up on the totem pole than his brother, Gus.

Which forum is it, Rick?

I was kind of wondering the non-Italians too.  It seems to me that some were part of a crew that was mostly downtown around the Loop, but others were only in Cicero, etc.  Guzik, Humphreys, the Alex brothers, Pierce, etc all seem to be downtown and I see them associated mostly with Frank “Strongy” Ferraro (from reading the contents of the hidden mics).  Claude Maddox, for example, after Capone went away seems to be part of the Cicero crew under Aiuppa.  During Capone’s time he ran the Circus Cafe in the North Side or Near North Side (I think — could have been West Side).  Ed Vogel was another who I think was in Cicero.  Lester Kruse…not sure if I recall correctly by I think he was in Lake County.  So I don’t see a single non-Italian crew, but maybe one non-Italian crew and other important non-Italians who were part of a certain territory just like Ricca, Giancana and Battaglia were part of Taylor Street.  They probably had their own non-Italians who worked just with them (unless they were loaned out).

Regarding earlier made guys, there are a number of guys who I’m sure were made and I’d really like to figure out which crew they were part of.  Frank Nitti may have been the original Rush Street/North Side capo, but I’m not sure.  Frankie Rio was another early powerful guy.  Louis Campagna I’m guessing was the original boss of the crew that Tony Accardo later headed, but didn’t Tough Tony Capezio and Jack McGurn fit in there somewhere?  There was Phil D’Andrea, Al Capone’s bodyguard but later president of the Italian American National Union.  Frank “Diamond” Maritote and “Cherry Nose” Gioe…of the two Gioe seems more important.  There was Nick Circella, who was less important but was indicted with Ricca, Campagna, Rosselli and Gioe.  There were the labor guys Joseph Fusco and Joseph Fosco.  I see that Rocco Fischetti was with the North Side, but there were Charles and Joseph.  Lawrence “Dago” Mangano I think was another North Sider, but I wonder how high up he was.  Other North Siders said to be important were Vincent “the Don” Benevento, Thomas Oneglia and Nick DeJohn.  In the book about Jimmy Fratianno of Los Angeles it mentions that in the 1940s there was a capo named James Franzone who ordered the death of Nick DeJohn.  There were also “Dago” Mike Corozzo, Francis X. Esposito, and Tony C. D’Andrea.

This is probably one of those questions you can’t answer, but I’ll throw it out there.  Then there’s the question of what happened to all the old Chicago Mafia people when the Outfit took over.  There were the followers of the old bosses Anthony D’Andrea, Mike Merlo, Tony Lombardo, Pasqualino Lolordo, Joseph Giunta, Joe Aiello and Salvatore Loverde.  I know some of them left for Milwaukee and joined that Family, but there were others who stayed.  Some of the Genna brothers and their associates who survived were still active in the 1930s.  It seems to me that since Chicago was on the Commission and recognized as a Mafia Family (although very untraditional), then all these former members of the old Chicago Mafia would have to pay them respect as the new leaders.  It seems that the Outfit would have been larger in the earlier years with all these people who weren’t replaced as they died out.

Anyway, there’s still a lot of questions seeking answers, and maybe there are some people out there through their family contacts may know some of the answers.

Thanks,

Rick

Being down on Rush St. in the late 1970′s. In my opinion, that’s when Frank Sr. was made or acknowledged as made. His brother was made later. I don’t think Frank Sr. was bad as a Dad by any means. No sir. In fact if you read his recorded transcripts, he CARED about his sons. In fact Frank Jr. USED this against his father to get him to talk.  Frank Jr.  started not caring for anyone when he became a drug addict. All those people are the same.  Who do you think encouraged Frank Jr. to keep those two off the streets?  My opinion is that it’s possible it started with the Carusos.  

Antionette Giancana.

Fuckin-A !! Rick your going way way back my friend with this Outfit history. We’ve moved on from that. But to answer just a few of your questions. Frank Nitti was a fuckin Boss/ Chairman in fact.. don’t believe all this shit that he wasn’t. Nitti was super smart. He spear headed the post prohibition era by taking over unions, police, politics. He went nation wide also with gaming (Vegas and Havana). He did not mess around. He saw how Capone was flamboyount and not good for business. He was the polar opposite of that, but he ran a tight ship.

Nitti around 1931 immediately designed street crews for the Outfit (to protect himself) and named a Boss one Paul Ricca. Nitta was a Chairman. He only committed suicide because he had cancer and did not want to die in prison (he had done time a Leavenworth before and did not want to repeat that). Ricca never ordered Nitti around or Campagna. Although Ricca had more power than Campagna.

The original boss of Rush Street was Ross Prio. 26th street Bruno Roti. Grand Avenue should of been Jack McGurn but Nitti thought he was to flamboyuont like Capone. And spited him by giving that to Joe B and Tony Cap. Cicero was run by Rocco Fischetti, with two strong lieutenants Bobby Taylor and Joey Obrien. Melrose Park was run by Rocky DeGrazia.

Ricca was a front for Nitti and his base was Taylor Street. He (Ricca) would meet with New York mobsters doing this time period (1930s) they all went in on gaming together in Cuba. Joe B would be tapped to go to Cuba on behalf of the Outfit.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and the others. I missed that earlier. Anyways Happy Fuckin Holidays my favorite time of the muther fuckin year ! Salute as we like to say

Horsey,  Very well stated. Did you see my small updates for Chart #1 and Chart #2 ?  Also, did you see the beginning of Chart #3 where I outlined the Hierarchy of the the Street Crews? One minor point for Rick, My relative was born on Taylor St. in 1936. However, he became a soldier in the Elmwood Park Crew. he never belonged to the Taylor St. crew, he just happened to be born there just like Willie Messino.

The Non Italian Crew basically answered to Murrey Humphreys.  However, each of those men like Pierce & Kruse had strong affiliations with the Crew that was in the area where they were based.  For example: Les Kruse ( North ). Do not read what Roemer said about Frank ‘ Strongy ‘ Ferraro.  He said Ferraro was the Underboss of the Entire Outfit which is completely false!  Those Non  Italian Outfit guys were high level associates and worked with Humphreys.  It wasn’t exactly a Crew like the other Crews, we assembled them that way to make the understanding of their function easier.  I personally do not know exactly how the Outfit was strucured from 1931 to 1957 but have an idea.  I do know that Ricca & Accardo were the two Top Bosses for awhile and that Ricca’s power base was the West Side Crew which covered the First Ward. That crew later became known as the Taylor St. crew. Accardo was the #2 Boss and his power base was Grand Ave. As far as the other old timers, I don’t really know who was with with which Crew.  Machine Gun Jack McGurn and Tony Capezio were with Grand Ave. Joey Auippa was the Boss of the Cicero Crew.

The Don, (The thread is getting narrow down below i’ll reply up here to you). Yes your correct if you read those FS transcripts you can geniunely see Frank Sr. cares about his sons. I think he would of paid their fines had Frank jr not stole his money. But he forgave him up to a certain extent because he loved his sons. And yes I can recall an incident when a really tough Outfit guy (like a Bobby Abbinanti) was about to get into it with Frank Jr at a disco joint on Rush. He immediatelly said the name of his father and that said guy backed down out of fear and respect. Although Frank jr would of got his ass handed to him. Frank jr. was tough but not Bobby Abbinanti tough.

Like you said and CORRECTLY i might add Frank Sr was already a somebody even before 1980. He was Made and feared.. but respected. Frank Sr was like Johnny DiFronzo in that they where not Night Owls. They did their business and then went home at a respectable hour. However their kids where Night Owls and prowled Rush Street like they owned the fucker. I can recall for a long time in the 1970s and part of the early 80s the two guys who where designated to look over Outfit bosses and MadeGuys kids was Marco and Tony Borse. Hell Tony Borse’s boys Lewis and Joey used to hang out with their father, but just on a party level.

But Outfit bosses kids like Toots or Bruno Caruso, Frank or Kurt Calabrese, Steve Torello, John DiFronzo jr, Angelo LaPietra jr. Jackie Esquire, William Petrocelli jr, Tore Gags, Alex Salerno, Sam Inendino just to name a few … were all told if you have any trouble down on Rush or Division find Marco… Marco took care of all those spoiled bastards. Those guys never paid for anything. Alot of square white kids from the burbs, or yuppie college grad types partying on Rush/Division who would get into it with one of those Outfit kids got some serious beatdowns by Marco and his crew and Tony Borse. I used to see the shit. Steve Torello, Alex Salerno and Tore Gags was not that bad. John jr. was not that bad either unless he was on drugs. Then all hell would brake lose. And Tony Borse kept his boys in line. Lewis was very rough though and a mad man when he got liquored up. He would pal around with Fat Fuck Mike Sarno (they where the same age). But the others would throw their fathers names around, but Marco ordered them to never get in any trouble. If they wanted someone beatdown he would handle it. They repsected him as a alter boy would respect the Pope.

As for Frank Jr. getting the green light to lock his father and Uncle up for life. It was Toots who conspired with him. If they would of got out (Frank Sr and Nick) we may be talking about the Calabrese brothers like we do the Spilotros. And the coup was complete when Ronnie Jarrett got knocked down ! Dont believe for a minute Frank jr didnt know “why” Ronnie was knocked down. Ronnie had some of Frank Sr’s money and Toots wanted it ! Ronnie was very loyal to Frank Sr. and would not just come off that juice money just cause Toots said so. Toots had Apes ear and that was the end of Ronnie Jarrett. Toots comes off as a nice non-descript guy but is extremly ruthless and greedy. 

I agree The Don, Very well stated by Horsey Fart. Spot On, Spot On !

Well, then once again ( like usual ) we see it the same way.   You’re God Damn right that’s why Ronnie was knocked down in 1999.  Johnny Apes had to okay it.  Your last paragraph in particular is 100% accurate.  As far as Marco, you bet he was the overseer of Bosses and Made guys kids.  ( I knew this from when I was in College).  That’s one of the good will reasons by 1986 Marco was overdue.  He should have already been made by the end of the 1970′s because he basically operated in a very similar manner.  Cerone held Marco at an arm’s  length and tried to keep him down while He & Auippa shared in Marco’s income from Bookmaking.  Rarely,  but on occasion,  a made guy is shelved or in Marco’s case, a high level Associate is kept at an arm’s length from being made.  Around 1985 or 1986, whenever Marco moved his base to Elmwood Park, that was the signal to everyone that the New Elmwood Park Sheriff ( DiFronzo ) made a new deputy with full rights ( Marco ).  Also, one other important point you have touched upon.  When a made guy goes to jail for awhile, there is ALWAYS  the risk of losing what may be out on the street.  Someone else might take it over, especially if it looks like the made guy is never going to come out.  There is always the FINE LINE of how much to have out on the street at any given time because that ultimately is considered Outfit money ( versus a made guy owning a legitimate company in the name of his wife ).  

RealDeal

Thanks for the info, it’s really appreciated.  I know you say you guys have moved on from the old stuff, but I’ve gone through every article from Joe Fosco and every post to them and never saw these questions addressed.  I’ve been digging into this stuff for years, but it’s only recently I found out about the different structure of the Outfit.  Anyway, if I have all these questions there are plenty of others out there who have them too.  So Angelo, I’m not gonna give up

Regarding Nitti though, I’ve heard from several people (including Joe) say that he was only a capo and that the top bosses were Ricca and “Lefty” Campagna.  Several other well placed people told me that Ricca was the top guy since Capone went to Alcatraz.

Interesting too about Rocco Fischetti being the Nitti-era boss of Cicero.  A lot of people here seem to think it was Aiuppa all the way.  Plus Rocco died in 1964, so O’Brien didn’t run Cicero until 1964?  I don’t know…

I got that about Ferraro from the transcripts of the bugs found in Giancana’s FBI file.  There’s also a recording of a very interesting conversation involving Accardo, Giancana and Ricca.  Accardo is instructing Giancana on how to deal with the G.  Sometimes he is telling him, maybe even ordering him, on how to behave better with the Feds.  Ricca joins in every now and then to agree with Accardo, but comes off as a confused old man.

On Roemer, I read him very skeptically these days and verify as much as I can.  I agree that he got a lot of things wrong, but the fact is that just about everything written on the Outfit has something wrong.  I hope Joe’s book updates our understanding A LOT.

The few times I was in Frank’s Elmwood Park home as a kid (on 75th and Grand); I remember Frank’s kids walking on eggshells around the old man. I never witnessed anything inappropriate. Again, the kids were very careful not to create any disturbances.

The name Caruso leaves a bad taste in my mouth – ever since the Lenard Clark beating. The idea that someone could nearly beat a child to death with a baseball bat in cold blood and receive family support after being arrested is horrible. I realize that Clark and Caruso are now friends (even though I know the story behind it); I contend that Clark would not have accepted a friendship with his vicious and deplorable attacker under any circumstance if he were not suffering from permanent brain damage.

Wrong. Auippa was the Boss of Cicero way before 1964.  Auippa was around a long time.  Nitti was a Capo and A Top Boss.  Remeber the way Chicago is structured?  Don’t make it like N.Y. or you’ll only get more confused like other guys who have sritten about the Oufit in the past. 

Rick,  Fischetti might have run Cicero Crew for awhile, but Auippa became the day to day Boss before 1964. Believe me.

I agree.

That’s because the Outfit has always been more secretive and structured differently than N.Y. Nobody who writes the books understands this point and always tries to make Chicago like New York. That’s why the books are full of contradictions that never make sense.  Look at the Outfit as an operating Syndicate made up of 5 or 6 powerful Street Crews ( depending on the era ) with one of the street crews being the Dominent and maybe a second one the sub Dominent( depending on the era). Soldiers are members of the Oufit but are not made guys. The Soldiers work for the Made guys. Above the Made guys are the Bosses. Among the Bosses there is a pecking order of power with everyone ultimately partnering in one way or another with the Top Boss who is also the Boss of the Most powerful Crew.  Forget about how New York is structured.  Accardo may have been trying to flex his muscles to Giancana in front of Ricca, but believe me when I tell you Giancana never took orders from Accardo. He may have listened to what Accardo had to say, but never took orders from him. I repeat, never. You first heard about how the Oufit is structured on these threads, and basically it came from me with the help of Joe Fosco and Black Angelo. Horsey then created the charts and we worked together on them because he amassed a very good understanding of it and is now well versed. 

Tony,  Why did you change your screen name to Five finger discount man? Am I correct that the Five finger discount man is Tony?  Was it because of difficulty getting your postings to appear so it was easier to start all over with a different name?  That’s my guess.  Anyway, I just wanted to make sure Tony and Five finger discount man are the same people. Thanks.

Not to give away my age, but I remember the “Sweetwaters” days. I was young hanging out with older friends. I totally remember that era, of Rusht St.

JF, What about the Colella guy beating up the female cop? Is he still around? Who saved him? What’s his story?

The Don,
If your serious…then there will end up being a ridiculous representation of Chicago on the show. I’m glad. I hope the show takes it up the ass.
Antoinette Giancana is a very nice lady that went through hell and back as a younger woman. As a older woman she has struggled immensely.
As I’m typing this….fuckit….If she on there I’d like to see it.

Yikes!!!! Great site, very hardy to follow.

What Caruso kids are you talking about ? I’m talking about Skids kids.. specifically Toots and Bruno. But really Toots. He was respectful of older connected mafia guys no doubt. But just some regular guy at a bar on Rush in 1970′s era he was a ball buster. Bobby Abbinanti a many of times kicked ass for him. Toots kids however are respectful now. I believe he has 3 kids. One got in trouble back in 1997 over that racial fight. But he has kept his nose clean since then. But Toots was always getting in fights going back to the 1960s Marco used to save his ass. And then up through the late 1970s a young Bobby Abbinanti who was this/close to Toots beat the pulp out of guys for Toots. He was a jag off in his younger days. He had his first born in 1979 and started to clean up his act. and especially after his dad Skid died in 1983 he took on more responsibility. But if your talking about Skids kids.. yes Frank “Toots” was the only problem. And if your talking about Toots kids ? Yes Frank jr. “The Prince of Bridgeport” was his only problem child.

The Don, on a posting a while back (maybe 2 weeks ago) on another thread Tony (Five Finger Discount Man now) said he changed his screen name. He got the name from me. Do you recall a while back when I pressed Joe Fosco about the details of Mike Magnafichi and his Oak Brook “problems” ?? He has been arrested 4 times in the past 2 years on retail theft in OAK BROOK of all places. This lead to Mike Mags begging Marco for money. Marco looked out for the bum. So I gave him the nickname Michael “Five Finger Discount Man” Magnafichi because he enjoys Five Finger Discounts. Tony must of liked it inasmuch hense the screen name change.

Joe, Do you recall when the whole Caruso family including Toots beat up an elderly Italian man and this was recent ??

Rick, The FBI was lock step on Mooney and not Joe B (Accardo). He was just advising Mooney, because that is all he was was an advisor of sorts. He had dealt with the Feds before. Plus Joe B had his own problems to deal with like Tax Envasion in 1959/60. Read the The Don’s posting below he is spot on. Mooney never took orders from Joe B. But he was a great listener. He was advised by Gus Alex and  Teets Battaglia as well.

ps Joey Obrien was the boss of Cicero by 1938. He set up shop at Capones Hawthrone Inn was their for decades. Fischetti went out to Lake County to take over.

I have two sources on said matter (both dead); the defendants father, Lenny and Charlie Nicosia, who have shed a bit of light on things for me.
Lenny was a catering truck driver for my father in the 1960s, when my father owned Meals on Wheels (today several companies, including Thunderbird, make up what used to be my fathers company). Therefore, Lenny and I knew each other. One time when I was having lunch with him and Judge James “Jimmy” Zafiratos Sr (the judge who sentenced me to probation on the case that Tosto falsely alleges I kidnapped a cops kid by supposedly putting him in the trunk of my car; and who actually did dismiss a bogus violation of probation that the state failed to prove; and who officiated both of my marriages; and who financially supported one of my charitable causes) at the old Paddle Wheel in River Forest, we were talking about the problems that Bob Cooley created for everyone, including the legit judges like “Jimmy.” After “Jimmy” left us, Lenny told me that either my father was dying or had already died when his son beat up the cop, which he explained was the reason why he could not get help from the First Ward through a better connection (meaning through my father). Therefore, he went through Cooley and the rest is history. Apparently, my father was the only solid connection Lenny had to the First Ward. Lenny told me that my father could fix murder cases for 10-grand. I remember thinking to myself, “I doubt it – he could have probably did it for nothing.” Personally, I do not believe that my father would have helped Lenny’s son (but we will never know). Once it would have been clear to my father that the kid was an alleged drug user he would have told Lenny to forget it. Lenny is one of the few guys that I knew who told me that my father was a hit man for Teets in the 50s. For the record, I do not consider Lenny a credible source on the matter involving the allegation that my father served Teets as a hit man.
Another time well prior to the aforementioned matter, Lenny was telling me that my father was a hit man; I mentioned it to my older brother. His answer was, “Lenny is a jag off. How would he know if the old man was a hit man? Do you think the old man would tell people that he was a hit man? No! So, how would he know it? Do you think he ever saw the old man kill someone? No!” The whole idea bothered me. I mentioned the comment Lenny had made about my father being a hit man to Charlie Nicosia. Charlie told me to stay away from Lenny. He further indicated that Lenny and his son caused a lot of trouble for everyone. In addition, Charlie told me that my father never killed anyone and that “he was a beautiful man.” At that point, we left his grand room above the garage of his massive Elmwood Park residence, saying goodbye to Ruthy his servant as we headed to his black four-door Lincoln so he could return me home (I was too young to drive). I really miss my father and Charlie.

Yes, they jumped a man who was roughly 70-years old at the time. If they are not beating up old people, they are trying to kill children.

Further reminiscing about Charlie, who happens to be a person I fondly remember, he and his son Sam were so close, I cannot imagine how much it must hurt Sam to be without his father. I have not talked to Sam in 10-years. Clara Cerone and I were supposed to have lunch with him, but it never worked out. Almost every time I visited Charlie at home, his son Sam was right there near him. Conrad’s sons were younger than I was and would be seen playing in Charlie’s presence quite often. Right about now Charlie would have his home decorated for Christmas, which would literally stop traffic in front of his home. Of course, his famous New Years parties were the talk of many towns.
Forgive me for wondering away from the issues in the article.

I’m not trying to make it like NY.  I understand that clearly.  But I’m getting contradictory info about Nitti.  I’m hearing that Ricca was the top boss and Nitti was just a capo, Campagna was the top boss and over Ricca and Nitti was just a capo, now I’m being told Nitti wasn’t just a capo but a top boss.

I feel like the old Abbott & Costello routine:  Who came first?  What’s on second?  I don’t know is on third?

What I thought I understood was that Ricca was the chief of the dominant crew and the overall boss, Campagna was the head of the subdominant crew and overall underboss, and Nitti head of a third crew, therefore just a capo.  Nitti was subordinate to Ricca and Campagna.  Is this correct or am I mistaken? 

And is it possible that Frank Rio was an early underboss or consigliere?   (Maybe this is something that can’t be answered.)

Rick

Yes, I do recall. Five Finger Discount Man is more interesting. Mike Mags should never have come into the life.

I agree, Antionette is no Drita! LOL

Nitti was the  Chairman and Capone’s first cousin. He belonged to the same Crew as Ricca  ( West Side First Ward).  He was to Ricca what Ricca was to Mooney.  Ricca was the day to day Boss of the West Side Crew and Top Boss of the entire Outfit. Nitti committed suicide in 1943 because he was dying of cancer and did not want to die in jail.   

Yes Don, its me (tony). I changed my name in honour of theLee article, and also because i was having a problem getting posts thru. Black Ang is right I got the name from him at a “five finger discount” lol.I was looking for a better name anyway. It was that or “prince of bridgeport “, Black Ang is creative with the nicknames, lol. Thanks again Black!

No problem.It was a very interesting story.

lol!

That’s just the sort of info I was looking for.  If I understood Joe correctly he was just a capo, so Joe, do you agree with the Don on this one?

Rick,   I’m posting up here for simplicity. When you said Nitti was ‘ Just a Capo ‘ ,  I understood what you meant, but you are still not quite grasping the complete idea.  In Chicago, Capos are Bosses. The Capo of each street crew in Chicago is equivalwnt to a Boss in New York.  The Made guys in Chicago are a BIG DEAL and are equivalent to the Captains in each New York Family. In the past, if you aded up the Bosses, Underbosses, Consiglieres & Captains in New York, it would have equaled about 100. In Chicago, during the Taylor St. reign, there were about  75 made guys. The Soldiers in New york are all made guys. The Soldiers in Chicago belong to the Outfit, but are not made guys.  They work for the made guys.  In conclusion, as you can see, the Outfit as one powerful force was about 75% of the size of all 5 Families in New York.  However, the number of actual made guys is much lower because it meant a lot more to be made in Chicago than in New York. In New York, they made everybody and his brother.  In Chicago you really had to earn it.  Also, in Chicago, the Top Boss ( Mooney) for example, was not only the Boss of the Taylor St. Crew but was the Top Day to Day Boss of the whole fucking Oufit.  All the other Bosses were partners with him.  Each Top Boss In Chicago always maintains his power base to various degrees for earning and safety reasons and simply builds upon it. That’s why no active Boss in Chicago ever got killed.  In New York, many of then got killed. Maranzano, Masseria, Anastasia, Columbo ( became a vegetable), Galante, Eboli, Castellano etc.  A Boss can never give up his power base to a ‘ Captain ‘ and then expect everybody to just give him some kind of tribute because He says so.  A Boss in Chicago is strong because of his Crew and is a true partner with his men. In the future about 150 years from now when the students are studying Organized Crime in America, the Prototype group used will be Chicago, not New York.

Joe,  Wasn’t Clark arrested and convicted for rape 4 years later? Am I thinking of someone else?      

The Don, Like a broken record… spot on as usual. Rick understand what The Don is explaining here because its paramount to understanding the Outfit, its orgins and how it  worked and still works to a certain degree. As for Nitti he was never a Capo. Al Capone didnt have those really. But what Al Capone did that was so brilliant was… you called it.. HE WHACKED ALL HIS ENEMIES. Even Mooneys 42 gang which was a crime family unto itself fell in line with the Nitti Outfit.

Without what Al Capone did from 1924 -1931 their would easily (at the time) be 3 crime families the size of the Gambino, Genovese, Lucchese Families. He consolidated what was a bunch of gangs (or what you would call crime families in NY) in Chicago and then Nitti/Ricca broke it down into street crews. Nitti even took over the west coast.

Al Capone did alot for the Outfit. No crime boss in the histoy of any organized crime will top what he did. Larry Hoover can make a strong arguement for what he did with the Gangster Disciples (and made them the McDonalds of Drug Dealing) and how organized they was. Jeff Fort who started the Black P Stones (then El Rukns) can make a case. In terms of MURDER IN ORDER TO CONSILADATE POWER AND TO ORGANIZE. Capone, Hoover, and Fort are the best that ever was in any organize crime group in any city. PERIOD. (Ironically all 3 individuals from Chicago). Chicago was the murder capital in the Capone era for a reason. As it was in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s in Chicago for a reason. This is not coincidence. Dont believe the Hollywood Bullshit of the Bloods and Crips or the New York Mafia being brutal. The African American Super Gangs of Chicago and the Outfit are the most organized and Brutal. No Questions. Especially at their Peak.

But Capone was monumental. Even 30 years after Capone was gone from the streets the Top Boss was still paying homage to Capone and looking out for his son and his leagacy. Mooney in the 1960s HATED the show the Untouchables and even talked about whacking Desi Arnaz for creating the show. He was going to send Joe B’s lackey Cerone out to LA to whack the cocksucker, Joe B had to beg Mooney and then go to Ricca to take the contract off of Desi’s head. Mooney also was giving Capone’s son (Al “Sonny” Capone) a monthly allowance (kind of like what Marco does with Mike Magnafichi lol).

Anyhow when Capone went away in 1931 he unequivocally named Frank Nitti the Boss. Before Nitti went away to prison in 1931 he declared himself Chairman (as DiFronzo would do in 1993 before he went off to prison) and named Paul Ricca Top Boss. Ricca would be his mouthpiece on the streets to the other street crews and to the New York bosses when they came to town.

When Nitti got back to Chicago in 1932 he was impressed with Ricca and let him keep his postion. Nitti would set up his headquaters like a Chariman would at 221 N. LaSalle in downtown Chicago (beautiful art deco skyskraper still their today). But Nitti was never a Capo. He was the most powerful guy in the Outfit PERIOD. Ricca, LaPorte (the Heights crew), and Campagna also where very powerful. Out in LA/Vegas Roselli was powerful. But Nitti was the Chiar.

Black Angelo,  I would also like to add that when Lombardo got out of Prison, I would say he was like a Co-Chair with DiFronzo.  I know for a fact DiFronzo would discuss certain problems and big moves with Lombardo before issuing the order. Lombardo had to stay even more in the background than DiFronzo. And, in the usual Chicago style, Lombardo had his power base that he never gave up  ( Grand Ave.)  Lumpy was like the Pope in his area.  Lombardo and DiFronzo were very close and worked well together.  The roots of Elmwood Park go back to Grand Ave. anyway.  Any further thoughts?

The Don, yes your right about Lombardo. I explained Lombardo a little bit in the previous thread about his postion in 93 (a year after he was released). However he was a consegliere then. Johnny DiFronzo changed the Outfit somewhat to protect himself. My source went through it with me. It was basically what Frank Calabrese told his son Frank jr around Christmas time 2001. But slightly different upon Marco’s release, the dissappearance of LT, and the FS Trial. 

You see the Outfit use to be one big Christmas tree with the Top Boss of the dominant street crew at the top (like a shining star). You see Johnny went Chairman (he basically retired) so when Jimmy Marcello got out in 2003. He was a seperate tree with the most dominant street crew Cicero (melrose park) Ext. Johnny could still intervene, but he wanted to be seperate of Cicero because of RICO. So while everybody thought Andriacchi and Lombardo was a boss they was not.

Fast Forward to present day… there has been a new top boss for a long time now Marco Damico who’s street crew is dominant and from Elmwood Park. Then you have guys who are getting up their in age that are Made and done alot of time for the Outfit. So Marco and Johnny i’m told hatched out a plan to protect their own Christmas tree while protecting Solly’s tree, Pete’s tree, Andriacchi’s tree, Jimmy I’s tree. Hell Toots Caruso lays in the weeds so low and secretive 26th street has a very protective Christmas tree.

Jimmy I in the past 33 years has done 18 of that in the fed joint (well over half). In the past 33 years Toots has been arrested once in 1981 (30 years ago). He has never been to prison AT ALL. 

If Lumpy was to get out he would not be higher than Marco and or Johnny because of the current set up. However I could see him becoming consegleire again and insulated 2 times over by Andriacchi and Albie Vena. Or 3 times over if you include Vena’s relative and Lombardo confidant Christy Spina.

 Black Angelo,  Very well explained. If Lombardo got out now ( which won’t happen), He would be a Co-Consigliere of the Powerful Grand Ave. crew with Andriacchi. The Top Chairman and Top Boss of Elmwood Park ( Dominent crew ) would still be DiFronzo & Marco D’Amico. The Outfit has been downsized from 6 street crews to 4 street Crews.  Extended Elmwood Park Crew ( Dominent ), Grand Ave., Cicero &  26th St.  You have the Chairman, Top Boss, basically 4 Consigliere’s ( Sub Chairs ) and then the normal Capos of each Crew & made men with the soldiers working under them on the street level. Marco & Johnny still have made men direct with them for security but keep them at an arm’s length because of RICO.  My relative belongs to The Extended Elmwood Park Crew and answers directly to Marco or Johnny, MANY times through another man who is the messager liason, in my opinion.  The structure is similar to the conventional past but a little bit different because of RICO and recent problems. The Consigliere program and the messenger program is different than years ago when it could be done more freely. Plus that, key men have to be more protected and also rewarded for doing time. I think we basically see it the same way.

The Don, I did a redesign of Chart 2, which I will post later this afternoon. Are you sure you want to have Lee on it? Joe says he wasn’t made until 1974. What were the other changes you suggested?

Also, go ahead and start describing #3.

The Don, I have no idea. However, if so, perhaps the brain injury caused the erratic behavior.

Yes.

If I stated the year 74, I meant to say sometime after Mooney was knocked down. Sorry for the typo (although I do not recall saying 74).

11/30/11 – correction:
I realized that I was a couple of years off on the ownership that I indicated above. At the time Jr’s wife was establishing an ‘interesting’ reputation, Cafe Piaza was owned by Gino Marino (who bought it from Nick and Willie). I realized for the first time that Willie liked Frank Sr, when I saw how disgusted Willie was over the behavior of Jr’s wife.

Joe,
What is the story behind it, if u dont mind me asking? Also, its not uncommen that a family rally’s around a member whos been convicted of a crime. It happens in tje African American community all the time.

Caruso allegedly reached out to Jesse Jackson to smooth over the situation for the purpose of establishing goo d PR. In my opinion, the newsworthy part of it comes in Jackson’s willingness to condone forgiving an injury to a child for the sake of allegedly doing a favor for an Outfit guy. Sad.
What do you mean, “rally’s around?”

Joe,  Yes it was Clark. I looked it up. He was allowed to plead guilty to a lesser charge which really upset the girl’s family.  I don’t know the details of what happened in 1997,  but I was told that Clark instigated some of it with his words. However, I do agree the beating was an overkill.   

Unless Lenard Clark had a loaded firearm aimed at those 3 men (ages 18, 19, and 21), there’s no way in the world Clark (a 13-year old child) could have done anything to instigate the savage beating he received, in my opinion.

Yes, I agree and I didn’t mean to sound insensitive to it. However, on a completely seperate issue, Clark was arrested and charged with rape but pled guilty to a lesser charge. The girl who was raped didn’t deserve it either. In other words, both acts were horribly wrong and Clark was no saint.

Lee belongs on Chart #2.  If Lee was on Chart#1 ( which I can’t remember ) then we can take him off and replace him with another name. I  already stated the few minor changes twice and I started Chart #3. If you look at all of The Don’s comments,  you’ll see the information listed. let me know. Thanks. 

The Don, I am working on the changes as we speak but won’t be done until tomorrow morning. I saw what you posted for Chart #3. Again, look for the revised version of #2 tomorrow and #3 in coming days. Thanks.

Don, I think you’re misunderstanding me.  I was not saying that in my opinion Nitti was “just a capo,” I said that’s what others have told me.  Joe is my source for a lot of this, and I’ve been reading what you guys have been posting.

For example, Joe shared this:  When
I say day-to-day boss, I mean street boss , ceo. When I talk about ‘the
boss’, I mean chairman of the board. Campagna was ‘the boss’ and Ricca
the day-to-day boss. When lefty died, Paul became ‘the boss’. From that
point, the various capos took turns being the day-to-day boss for Paul.
JB, Mooney, et al.

And this:  Lou was Accardo’s boss, he was everyone’s boss. It was the Campagna Ricca faction. Giancana, Nitti, Accardo, Aiuppa were capos under Lou and Paul.Nitti
was not ever the boss. Lefty and Paul ran the Outfit after Capone was
away. Nitti was one of their guys, so was Mooney, Aiuppa, Accardo and
the rest of the guys. By the 50s, Paul had a few favorite guys, Mooney,
Teets and Accardo. Paul’s favorite was Giancana. Teets was Paul’s next
favorite and then Accardo. Giancana and Teets were from Taylor Street
(though Teets had some roots in Wisconsin as well), which made them very
close. Accardo was originally for Grand and Ogden. However, Accardo had
a special bond with Aiuppa, who was born in Melrose Park.

(Rick again), so Don, this isn’t from me.  Joe said that Campagna was the chairman and Ricca the day-to-day boss.  According to him “Nitti was not ever the boss.”  But you guys are saying not only was Nitti the chairman, but he didn’t have his own personal crew like Taylor Street, Grand Ave., etc.  Ricca was the top boss under him and the capo of Taylor Street/First Ward.  Campagna…nobody has named his territory.  I guessed it would be the first capo of Grand Avenue, but maybe that was Accardo or Tough Tony Capezio.

Joe B seems to have been some sort of boss during the early 1950s because he represented Chicago in Commission meetings (Ricca represented Chicago from 1931-1951, Joe B represented Chicago in 1956, Giancana represented in 1957).  Only a top boss does this.  Maybe it was after the death of Campagna or Capezio — both of whom died in 1955.  I don’t know, I’m just guessing on this, but it makes  sense.

BTW, others have told me (not just JF) that Ricca was the Outfit boss after Al Capone went away, not Nitti.  I respect the opinions of JF and these other sources, so Don, BA and others, there is a disagreement here.   BTW, none of this is my own personal opinion.  I have no bone in this fight, just looking for the truth.

Thanks,

Rick

sometimes it has to be a first hand experience before some people realize how bad an effect violence can have on victims and their families.my god tells me to forgive.sometimes easier said than don(i mean done)

the waiter was the decision maker.joe b and mooney below.sam became shot caller in 58 with joe. joe b in charge after sam went to mexico. nitty just a public celeb…

Rick,  As I explained previously, Nitti and Ricca WERE FROM THE SAME CREW.  The Extended West Side Crew. Nitti was the Semi Retired Chairman and Ricca was the Boss. That was their Crew and the Dominent Crew in the Outfit. As far as Nitti is concerned, I don’t know how else to explain it. The Crew that has the Semi-Retired Senior Advisor, the Top Boss and maybe a Capo are all the SAME CREW and are referred to as the Extended Crew. For example: the Taylor St. Crew from 1957 to 1966 had Ricca, Mooney, Bucciere & Battaglia. Chairman, Top Boss & 2 Capos. These 4 men all belonged TO THE SAME CREW. Joe Fosco already said he agreed with the assessment about Nitti.  However, To be Honest, WAY BACK THEN aint my expertise. My expertise is from 1957 forward. I’m not sure about a couple of your other questions.  Tony Accardo was the Boss of Grand Ave. before Elmwood Park, and was the Underboss of the Entire Outfit. He was also Sicilian. However, from 1957 forward he was more of an Advisor. Mooney then would talk to New York when neccessary.   

Rick, It’s real simple and I dont want to really talk about this era again ( I dont see the relevance to this now day besides Johnny DiFronzo idolizes Nitti and how he ROLLED). 

Frank Nitti was never a day to day boss (except briefly in the late 1920s when Al went away on a gun charge). When Capone left Chicago for Atlanta (and then Alcatraz) he named Nitti his successor. Nitti had already served as his day to day boss when Capone was away for a while on a gun charge in Philadelphia as stated before. So he was already groomed.

With the spotlight that was on Capone… Nitti decided to scale back the Outfit in the public view. He insulated himself well by having Ricca in the forfront as a Top (day to day) Boss. Campagna served as his underboss. I REPEAT RICCA OR CAMPAGNA WERE NOT MORE POWERFUL THAN NITTI !!! I dont give fuck what book you read or if  Capone himself told you.

Nitti was easily the smartest boss/chairman in Outfit History. The Biggest Balls and organizer of men go to Mooney. The most cunning DiFronzo. The shrewdest and most decisive goes to Joey Obrien. The only problem Nitti had was he could not convince law enforcement he was not Top Boss even though he did everything to insulate himself.

But from 1931 – 1943 the general public forgot about the Outfit.. Killings actually went down in the 1930s (compared to 1920s). Nitti was more of a business man and that is how he directed the Outfit into the racewire business, contenital gambling, takeover of the movie industry, take over of the Unions in the city and abroad, takeover of national and local politics, controling profits in off shore gaming. The general public thought the Outfit was DEAD after prohibition, but it only got more Powerful.

Nitti in a sense was more ruthless than Capone. More shrewd than Obrien. And as cunning as DiFronzo. Nitti hated the bank robbers and their celebrity and the heat those guys (like Dillinger) brought to the Outfit. So Nitti simply had all of them to be killed as a coup. He set Dillinger up to be whacked, The Feds and JEdgar Hoover took the credit though. But Nitti wanted Dillinger dead. 

When Nitti found out Mayor Cermak was behind his assasination at the Lasalle Wacker building in October of 1932. Nitti simply had Cermak Knocked Down. A fucking Mayor Knocked Down !! (in Feb. of 1933 Cermak was DEAD.. revenge 5 fucking months later Nitti was NO JOKE!).. Nitti was the SUPREME SHOT CALLER. Not Ricca or Campagna. Trust me on this.

Nitti only became a public celeb AFTER THE FACT (1943 when he committed suicide). The Untouchables series in the late 1950s and early 60s depicted Capone and Nitti in a bad and MISGUIDING light. Like Johnny DiFronzo in the 1980s and 90s .. Frank Nitti thought in all directions. He designed the Outfit. Capone did most of the dirty work in the 1920s (with Nitti’s help though). Nitti organized the biggest hit in history that took place on February 14, 1929.

Well stated Don, I feel with all this explaining about the History of the Outfit and how it works we sound like fucking broken records. But oh well Fuck it.

Well, close but I would clarify a bit more. The Waiter ( Ricca ) final decision maker. Mooney ( with Ricca )  were as you said shot callers in 1957.  Accardo was below Ricca and Mooney.  After Sam went to Mexico, Taylor St. was still dominent for A SHORT TIME with Teets Battaglia as the Top Boss. AFTER Teets went away & Alderisio was in Jail,  Ricca was strictly an Advisor and Auippa became the Top Boss, thus starting the NEW regime which lasted a long time. However, the peak power of the Outfit was 1957 to 1966. Never be equaled again.

Thanks for the info but no need for the hostility.  If it bothers you so much don’t answer the questions.  I don’t want you to get a brain aneurysm or a stroke or something.  Don’t get me wrong, as I said before I appreciate the info.  I just wanted to make clear that I wasn’t getting this info from books, but from people like Joe Fosco.  If you insist that Nitti was the Chairman, Ricca the Boss and Campagna the Underboss, I have no problem with that. 

By the way Rick, I wasn’t misunderstanding you completely, I  just wanted to clearly point out the difference between Chicago and New York in my posting above. That’s all. You should tell a couple of the other readers on the other blog to come onto ANP if they want to discuss Chicago, ( Not New York ). LOL

Don, thanks for CALMLY explaining things.  It makes perfect sense.

Can I just put ONE FINAL QUESTION out there?  If it makes anyone hostile please ignore it.  What crew was Campagna with?  I am guessing Grand Avenue but don’t know for certain.  After that I won’t put up these pre-1957 questions.

Thanks to everyone for their contributions.

Rick

Rick,  I believe Campagna was with the Cicero Crew. He had a lot of  gambling going on there. I believe he was the Boss of the Cicero crew before Joey Auippa.

Nothing against Rick at all, but the site he posts to is a friggin mess. They mostly concentrate on NY. All of the people that post on the site are only interested in the “Mafia” They aren’t like us with growing up in areas/neighborhoods, or able to give first hand experiences, etc. That’s why I love Chicago!
I would have to guess he admires this site and is trying to clean up the one he has been posting on for a long time.
If I could cut the mustard real quick, New York sucks balls & Chicago has always been the “1st City” when it comes to O.C.

I neglected to post the fact that I think the Colella’s were & are wannabes. Oh yeah, dirtballs too.
Someone told me Michael Colella has a bit time limo service in the city. Is that true?

Is that what is Baciami now?

Thank you, Sir Don.  Just to clarify because some said that Rocco Fischetti was, perhaps Fischetti was Campagna’s personal underboss?  Just a guess.  Anyone?

Thanks,

Rick

Well I wouldn’t put it in those exact words, but I do agree with you 100%!  How’s your grandpa doin? Does he still read all our posts.  I hope he didn’t get upset with me a couple weeks ago. I had to have Joe ( himself)  prove something and it had to be done honestly. I believe the goal was accomplished! I’m still the same old ‘ The Don’  and I do enjoy ANP!   

I understand.  Some from that other forum tend to be on the more aggressive side and I can see some serious battles going on here.

Black Angelo & Horsey,   Did you ever read the Article by Steve Wambir stating that Frank Sr. told Frank Jr. on tape that Ronnie Jarrett was dealing cocaine and had to stop. He then said Johnny Apes ordered him to stop but  he kept doing it so that’s why the Top Bosses agreed to wack Ronnie.  Did I miss something?  I do not recall reading that in Frank Sr.’s transcripts? Is Wambir or whatever the fuck his name is making this shit up? Please advise.

Actually I have family outside Chicago, like Schaumberg, Hoffman Estates and Arlington Heights.  On that other site you get all kinds.  There are people who used to be in the life, wannabes, people with relatives, researchers and writers, people with a general interest.  Some are calm, cool and collected, others like to argue, mock and piss off other posters.

To me, it’s all fascinating.  It’s the historical aspect that fascinates me, and with so much misinformation I love it hear because people here know the truth and have inside information.  I also help relatives and even a few made guys who are interested in finding out about their ancestors and what really happened in the past.

As for rooting for Chicago, I can’t get behind Rahm Emmanuel.  Talk about corruption…

Rick my apologies but It felt like we was beating a dead horse my friend. I’ve got a unusual temper. I get pissed very quick and have been prone to ignore someone when i want to bury them. Metaphorically of course so nobodies shits there pants. I’m Sicilian and have no time for bullshit or games. But i hope you understand Nittis role as it pertains to what became of the Syndicate (The Outfit). Grazie

ChitownDago, Fosco, The Don, Horsey, Rick and others, I’m not into reality Tv AT ALL. My wife likes that shit. I like shit that is real not reality mafia shit. Anyhow I thought ChiDago would enjoy this clip on TubeYou that was sent to me from my daughter in laws sister who is mobbed up.

Fyi when i first saw the clip i was taken a back by this guys British accent, but as he spoke he seemed very knowledgeable about Chicago (he even has our accents down to a T)… but i dont sound like Bugs Buny every day haha. But he is spot on about us beingLOW KEY. Here it is…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBhPnciLvSY&feature=related

I dont recall that at all. Steve Wambir is a 4 eyed pussy motherfucker geek.

I personally think Rocco Fischetti was up in Lake County ( Far North ) for a long time. I believe Auippa was the underboss to Campagna. But again, we’re going way back in time to the early 1930′s up to 1950 which is not my strong point.

You mean loud mouth New Yorkers. I say bring ‘em on. I’ll bury them and their stupid rat infested 5 Families where everybody in Brooklyn is a ‘made guy’ including the taxi cab drivers.  LOL

Black Angelo,  I would have never guessed in a million years you were Sicilian. I thought you were Irish all this time! Top of the mornin’ to you Lad. LOL. That reminds me of a story in the hospital when one of my Uncles was lying on his stomach face down and his gown was open on his back and bottom. The Doctor, who was Italian , came by to check on him. All of a sudden he had a very serious look on his face and he blurted out in front of everyone  ‘ Hey Lenny, your ass is white. I thought you were Sicilian!

Google  ‘ Why was Ron Jarrett Killed’  and you’ll see the article.  By the way, please don’t hold back, tell me how you really feel about Steve Wambir.

No problems.  Got it on Nitti.  No games here, just after the facts   Prego!

Molto bene.  Grazie!

Ronnie, Was no doubt knocked down because Apes gave the green light. But it would take Apes alot to go that route trust me. Toots had Apes Ear like/this. He had Apes okay getting a witness killed in his sons case in 1998. Apes was even willing to go along with Knocking Down a Cook County judge for sending “The Prince of Bridgeport” to “pillow biting school” (Illinois Prisons) for 8 years.

Trust Me Ronnie was a Old School guy, Dealing drugs fuck NO my friend ! Maybe some financing here and their. But Apes okay’d it apparently and Toots was behind it. According to some witnesses some young Black kid killed Ronnie right their in front of his home. Ronnie was a TOUGH S.O.B. didnt die for like a month in the hospital and still wouldnt stoole. That is Man.

Black Angelo,  I agree with you. If Ronnie’s last name would have been Italian, he would have been made. But my real question is: Did Frank Sr. say that to Junior on any of the tapes or did he not? I don’t recall reading it.

Lol Don, Very Funny my friend. Irish lol.

That was interesting. The fucking Lime had a pretty good accent and mentioned Elmwood Park & Bridgeport. He mentioned the secrecy and that the Outfit is one Family. That’s how unified the Outfit presents itself to everyone. He’s right, the Outfit has always been well unified as one powerful unit even though it actually operated as 5 or 6 ( depending on the era ) Street Crews unified as one. My relative used to say like 5 fingers on one hand all working together. Very entertaining. I thought with his British accent he was going to start talking about the Beatles next.

The crews are a bit confusing too.  Like Melrose Park.  Did it change hands?  Back in the day Rocco DeGrazia then Teets Battaglia were running Melrose Park, which at that time looks like it was under Taylor Street.  Today Melrose Park is under Cicero.  What happened?

Then there’s Elmwood Park.  Before DiFronzo it was Jack Cerone running it, and Cerone was previously Joe B’s personal underboss.  Accardo was the capo of Grand Avenue, more recently Lombardo heads Grand Avenue.  So was Elmwood Park part of the Grand Avenue crew in the past?  Was Grand Avenue split into two crews?

Thanks,

Rick

Rick,  I’m replying up here to your confusion about the Street Crews.  Years ago there was the Grand Ave. Crew in the 1930′s & 1940′s.  The Power Base of the Crew headed by Accardo moved to Elmwood Park.  Melrose Park was covered by the mighty Taylor St. Crew which had Capo Battaglia in it.  Fast forward now to around 1968.  After Giancana was gone and most of the Taylor St. men were dead or in prison, the remainder of the Taylor St. men became the 26th St & Grand Ave. Crews.  Now here is a side note and is very important!  Some men are inherited by the new Top Boss & Underboss ( if there is one) of the entire Outfit.  These are made men like Romie Nappi or Pat Marcy or Joey Glimco who were direct with the former Boss Giancana or maybe a couple of the old Taylor St. men like Chuckie English or Sammy DeStefano who were direct with Giancana or Ricca. They are inherited by the NEW regime.  Sometimes it doesn’t work well.  Here is the list of the Street crews from 1957 to say 1968:  Taylor St., Rush St., Elmwood Park, Cicero, Chicago Heights.  Here is the list say from 1968 to 1993 :  Cicero, Elmwood Park, Rush St., Grand Ave., 26th St., Chicago Heights.  Here is the list from say 1993 to present:  Elmwood Park, Cicero, Grand Ave., 26th St. I hope this helps you.  Remember, the Outfit is like anything else.  Sometimes there is change and evolution or regression because of outside elements. NOTE: The year span used above could vary by one year give or take.

Rick,  You had one other question about good old Melrose Park. After the Grand Ave. & 26th Street power bases were established, Melrose Park was mostly covered by Grand Ave. However, at some point and I don’t know exactly when, it seemed that Cicero or Elmwood Park covered Melrose Park especially after Lombardo went to jail and Mooch Eboli died.  However, if you’re talking about Construction or Union activity, then  Elmwood Park covers it. 

In latter years, Joey O dealt with the thugs and Jack handled the pollys.

A dear friend of mine who actually spent a great deal of time with Lou (he is up in years and still alive, living in Florida), on his farm in Barren Springs, Michigan, recalls several instances when Frank and Mooney were at the farm reporting to Lou. My friend further recalls Lou ordering Mooney and Frank around, clearly as if he were the alpha. My friend, who shall remain nameless was a little older than Joe Nitto and he used to play with Joe (both growing up in Riverside, Ilinois).

http://www.scribd.com/doc/74389045/revised-1974-1985

Please don’t suggest any further changes. This was a pain in the ass.

I enjoyed that. People from Bridgeport, like Mayor Daley, say “Chi-caw-go” instead of  ”Chi-cä-go” like most people say. 

The Don and BA, I’m answering up here about the Jarret thing:

Yes, I remember it. In whatever transcript Frank Sr. says he had a “head like fucking concrete,” is the one in which the circumstances of his murder are being discussed. Senior speaks cryptically, of course, and he never says words like “junk” or “drugs” or anything. Supposedly, Jarrett was already on bad paper with Monteleone and the alleged drug activity exacerbated the situation. Jarrett was ducking Monteleone and Caruso (allegedly) and was eventually shot because of his insolence. I’m not in a position right now to look it up. 

I’ve heard that Jarrett was generally not very well liked outside of Senior’s personal circle, which leads me to believe that there could have been several things that lead to it. Ralph P, one of the bookies being armed by Calabrese, can be heard complaining about Jarrett to Junior on one of the other tapes. Warmbir is not the only reporter to write about the narcotics involvement. Somewhere it was mentioned that the alleged drug dealing was only temporary, allowing Jarrett to “pay his bills” until Senior got released, at which time they could get the franchise off the ground again.

Personally, I think Warmbir is a mediocre reporter, but I think a good amount of what he says about Family Secrets is credible because he covered it on a daily basis for the first 3/4 of the trial. Jeff Coen, too. Coen’s book is worth reading because every single word in the book, all the minutiae, is taken directly from evidence and trial testimony. Have you read it? It’s one of the few books out there on the Outfit that is worth reading. If nothing else, it’s an excellent primer for people who are new to Operation Family Secrets, which I think is a fascinating subject.   

Jarrett’s son testified at trial, too, and stated that Nick Ferriola, who was a friend, explained to him why his dad was murdered. Jarrett’s son may have provided testimony about the supposed drug activity, but I’m not sure because his portion of the trial testimony was basically ignored in the coverage.

Horsey, I dont have to much of a problem with Coen. But Warmbir makes up shit to much and calls any Outfit guy arrested a Mob Boss. He is just generic and a imbecile when it comes to OC and how the Outfit works. Kass I dont even wanna get started with him.

As for Ralph P “Curly” Peluso he was mainly beefing to Frank Jr. about Frank Sr.  Ronnie Jarret was already dead, when Frank Jr and Curly talked. But from what i can recall Ronnie before his death was still trying to run Frank Sr.’s franchise and was putting pressure on Peluso. Curly P claims he inherited Ronnie. But he sounds if he wants out of the business. 

I personally know Curly is a millioniare two or 3 times over just from bookmaking alone. So he probably just wanted to cut and run or in other words get out when he was still alive and tremendous amount of money. As for Frank jr.’s other recordings with other franchise members like Capt D. DeFazio’s “Captian DiFazio” beef on the recordings with Frank Jr. was with Hatch Chiaramonti… “he called him a fuckin nut”.

(Teets here.) Joe some of the best content from the KTF site can no longer be found on American News Post (ANP). You used to have some court documents posted where we could read about the time Esquire’s son (woof woof!) was shaking his ass on the dancefloor like a dancing machine at some uppity club in Arizona and looked across the room and lo and behold there you were, mingling with a group of attractive women, you lucky bastard. Cerone seemed to be bothered by your presence, even though you were just being a charming young man. I think he tried to say that you followed him there (LOL) in court. Where can we read that again?

Periodically I used to shake my ass in clubs now and then and used to see the Lawyer’s kid once in a (great) while too, unfortunately. Cerone was one hell of a character, I’m sorry to say. What is the current status of Cerone?

Keep on keepin’ on (LOL)

Teets

Teets,
The transcripts are still available (they should be). Give me a few minutes to check. In the meantime, if you google image the name Jack Cerone, the transcripts pop up, lol.

Joe,  pollys LOL. You might want to explain to the readers what you mean by pollys. I got the idea.

Some transcripts can be found linked in paragraph 13 of this articles: http://americannewspost.com/joseph-fosco/819/attention-public-cook-county-judge-jill-cerone-marisie-continues-to-perpetuate-fraud-from-the-bench-a-%E2%80%9Cfamily%E2%80%9D-vendetta-%E2%80%93-among-those-bamboozled-by-the-fraudster-judge-is-th/

Teets,
I believe all the transcripts that you are referring to would be found here:

http://americannewspost.com/joseph-fosco/278/cook-county-judge-jillian-marisie-jack-p-and-john-c-cerone-what-a-bunch-oh-and-mob-boss-rudy-fratto-2/

Sure. The pollys are guys like Romi Nappi and Pat Marcy. In other words, politicians, including union guys and other white collars. Joey O was crude (I mean that he liked killers very much) and better left to deal with the thugs. Although Cerone could be a loud mean brat when drunk, he was better polished for dealing with the pollys.

The chart looks good. Don’t get upset, but I just have one comment. Too bad The Political Specialists and the Advisors could not be in a box like previously. Was there not enough room on the sides? 

I know what you mean about Warmbir. Part of the reason I think he is kind of a lackluster reporter is because he ignored some of the most intriguing, revealing aspects of the FS testimony, but then had a blog entry devoted to the time Frank Sr. passed gas during a recorded conversation.

BA, did you hear that when Jarrett was shot, the first person on the scene–before any civilians, cops, first responders, etc.–was an FBI agent? It was said that Ronnie Jarrett and some other Bridgeport figures were under heavy surveillance at the time of his murder.

“woof” LOL 

I had to shift it to a vertical format to accommodate some of the changes, and if I widened the margins any more to fit in the advisors, etc., it would have gotten cut off and looked like shit. 

I work with someone who might be able to figure something out. Stay tuned.

Don,
He’s doing well. Thanks for asking. My Grandmother has not been feeling well so He & I have not been able to sit down on here for about a week. I go back in threads if he has questions & it brings him up to snuff on everything. He’s 83 but sharp as a whip.
Funny story. He wanted me to go to the VA Hospital with him for his check up. We went and afterwards he wanted to grab a bite to eat. We were in River Grove and he says’ what the hell happened to the Loon? It was here for years!”  We ended up stopping there to eat and he knew everyone in the joint. He has lived in the Suburbs since 1976. It threw me for a loop.

Looks great, thanks HF & Don! Thats what really seperates ANP from the other sites; most who post have a really good working knowledge of the outfit.

Well, I thought you were making a joke about Cerone because a woman who is referred to as a ‘ POLLY’ is someone who has more than one relationship going at the same time. So I thought you meant Cerone tried to go after one of them. LOL Anyway, you’re right. Cerone was prone to deal with politicians & other white collars. That’s what helped give him power. accardo taught him well in that regard.

Ah, very interesting! No wonder your Grandpa likes Black Angelo & My postings so much. I remember when they interviewed DiFronzo about the Loon.  DiFronzo said he didn’t even know Marco! Then he said he hadn’t seen him. Very entertaining!  In the news report, they said DiFronzo was meeting with ALL the top men in the Outfit. Well, not really. He was meeting with SOME of the top guys. All the men there were the guys in his Crew ( Elmwood Park ).  There was noone there from Grand Ave., 26th St., or Cicero.  

The son of the original owner of the Loon told me about when that happened that day. He told me the Goudie story about five minutes after John D. walked out of the Loon. I was there with my wife. I was busy chatting with someone else and she was making conversation with an older man next to her. When I was finished talking to who I was talking to, she introduced me to her new friend. None other then John D.
I almost forgot…Tommy, the owner at the time, told me they knew Goudie was out there and they saw the girl at the bar with her telephone filming inside.
He offered John and them alternate ways to leave or even give him or them a ride. John just went out there any way knowing they were there. So he was not caught off guard or surprised. He said they had the news van right out there and were raising the antenna up.

Ut oh Black, I think Harlem is rubbing off on you.lol!
 That clip was pretty funny.
I would bet that he reads this blog!

Your wife should have introduced you as Marco D’Amico.  After all,  Johnny did say he didn’t know him.

Joe,  Concerning Lee, How do you know that Lee got made after the Mooney knock down?  Was the Mooney knock down Lee’s way of ‘ making his bones’ ? The reason I ask is because I was of the impresssion Lee was made before the Mooney hit. That terrible incident took place in June of 1975 if I’m not mistaken. I always thought Lee was made right after Joe Gags died which would have been around 1971. No big deal one way or the other.

The Don and readers here is the final draft of Chart #2. You’ll see that I made some additional changes. 

Rather than continuing to post links, just check my Scribd profile for updated documents, etc.http://www.scribd.com/doc/74456358/Chicago-Outfit-1974-1985 (chart)http://www.scribd.com/horsey_fart (profile)Enjoy.

Horsey,  You are a man among men.  Nice job.  I finally figured out why Chart#1 is so perfect looking and the other chart ( though very good ) looks a little different. That’s because in Chart #2 , we have to have 2 Streets crews above the other 4,  but in Chart #1 there is only 1 Street crew above the other 4.  Too bad Cerone had to be the Underboss of the Entire Outfit. It was better before when only Giancana was the Boss and the other 4 bosses were under him.  Another annoying example of Cerone. LOL.  Chart #3 will of course have to be set up like Chart#2.  I wish we could put Nappi & Marcy up on the top where they belong attached to Auippa & Cerone.  However, I don’t see any room to do it. Thanks for your design work. 

A ‘source’ very close to him simply told me. In addition, I think Cerone was away in 71, right? If so, I do not think that Lee would have been made without Cerone around.

I’ve been lurking this site for quite some time..Great info.  Is there a way to PM people on here?  I got a few things  I’d like an opinion on….

Sorry, there is no way to PM anyone but me, which would be done via email. However, once we get to know you, I would gladly pass a message to one of the others for you.

Lee would absolutely not be made without his immediate Boss Cerone. No question. I just thought it was before Cerone went away for that short period. I think what happened, thinking back upon it, Lee was promised by Cerone before he went away that as soon as he got out he would make him. Lee was a good man for Cerone’s Crew. After Joe Gags, Lee was Cerone’s best man if you take everything into consideration.  As I said before, My relative liked him very much.  I think you article on him was tremendous. Again, good picture too. A good picture is worth a thousand words…..

Great job, as usual.  What program do you use to make these charts?

Rick,  This is The Don. I answered your question about the confusion with the street crews below. let me know you saw my posting and if you have any questions about it. Grazie.

Thanks again…

You may email me at jfosco@americannewspost.com.

The inherited men concept holds true in many Families.  They just report to the boss (and/or underboss) whomever he is.

The other concept here is that as time moves forward the number of crews diminishes.  Some crews are absorbed by others and dissolved.  Makes me wonder how many crews there were (and what were they) when Nitti formed the crews.

Rush Street is the other name for the Near North Side crew, the Ross Prio-DiBella-Solano crew.

Taylor Street was closely associated with the 42 Gang, which under Ricca gave it a supply of new members.  This is the Ricca-Giancana-Battaglia-Alderisio group.

Before 1968 the Grand Avenue and Elmwood Park crews were the same, but after 1968 Taylor Street becomes Grand Avenue and the old Grand Avenue is renamed Elmwood Park.  This is due to demographic changes.  The Elmwood Park crew is the Capezio-Accardo-Cerone-Lombardo crew.

Cicero includes Berwyn (Lefty Campagnia lived in Berwyn for a while).

Chicago Heights includes all the south suburbs.

The 26th Street Crew, according to you didn’t start until 1968.  But I also read that Bruno Roti ran 26th Street/Chinatown since the late 1920s.  He was succeeded by Skids Caruso (I think) in 1957.  Is it possible that it did exist as a separate crew back to the early 1930s at least, but under the rule of Taylor Street?  Like a sub-crew.  According to other info, Al Capone originally headquartered in the area of 26th Street, but before his empire was divided into crews.

I hope I’m interpreting correctly.  It’s still a little confusing so I’m looking for areas of continuity.

Thanks,

Rick

So Melrose was a sub-crew?

believe what you want but lefty was the man.remember going to his house in florida several times has a kid.always gave me a pack of wrigleys spearmint(white pack back then)on my arrival…

all those things you attributed to nitti were really jake guziks doings…

That’s six minutes of my life that I’ll never get back LOL.  The guy can sure talk.  He’s got some good points too.  It truly says something about the Outfit that there can be a Chicago edition of Mafia Wives.  Hell, just having this forum says something about the Outfit.  There could have been no American News Post twenty or thirty years ago.  The restraint that exists today just wasn’t there.  Think about all the informers and renegades the Outfit wiped out over the years.  McGurn, Mangano, Carramussa, DeJohn, Bioff,  Toughy, Covelli, Cain, etc.  I mean the Outfit could be vicious, like with Estelle Carey, who wasn’t even a criminal, only the girlfriend of one.  This stuff just couldn’t happen in the past.

Yes, I just saw them and replied.  Thanks for your input, as always.

Rick,  Yes. Remember, all my answers are from 1957 forward.  

Rick,  You’re getting close my friend. Again, all my answers are from 1957 forward. I don’t know what Nitti did way back in the early 1930′s. After 1968, taylor St. becomes Grand Ave. AND 26th St. The old Grand Ave. Crew shifted their power base to Elmwood Park probably in the very late 1940′s. The old Grand Ave. Crew is Capezio-Accardo-Cerone ( Not Lombardo ).  Lombardo actually was with the Taylor St. Crew and then became Boss of the ( New ) Grand Ave. Crew around 1970.  ( Probably a little later than I previously stated )It was called Grand Ave. because Lombardo lives in that neighborhood. Remember, Grand & Ogden is not far from Taylor St.   The 26th St. area was PART OF the Extended Taylor St. Crew. Skids Caruso was a Taylor St. man running a Franchise in the 26th St. area.  The 26th St. Crew became a Power base like the new Grand Ave. Crew a little later, probably aroung 1972 with the death of Fifi Bucciere.  The Boss was Turk Torello who was also part of the Taylor St. Crew. Taylor St. man.  Any other questions?

There could have been no ANP 9-years and 5 weeks ago. If Willie Messino was alive, you would not know who I am right now.

Rick,  Sorry for the typo of the redundancy of Taylor St. man at the end of the posting. Let’s put it this way . Lombardo & Torello were part of the Extended Taylor St. Crew. After the demise of the Crew, those two men became Bosses. New Grand Ave. & 26th St.  Make sense? I don’t mind discussing this with you. You can ask me any question you want about it as long as it’s from 1957 forward.

Kkanz,  I like Wrigley’s spearment gum in a green wrapper.  Jake Guzik was an important High level Jewish Associate who was very good with money.  You’ll get an arguement from Black Angelo if you’re saying he did more innovative things for the Outfit than Nitti.  Me Personally, I don’t really care.  I say Nitti, Ricca, Lefty & Guzik were the Fab Four back then. i also gave you a compliment about two weeks ago and said you were a very loyal person and should never lose that quality. You never responded. well, maybe you didn’t see it.

The Don and Rick, Also to add some Taylor Street guys like Joe Nick became aligned with Cicero (instead of 26th street). Their was what was called a West Side Group back then.. So a guy like Turk Torello who was partnered with Joe Nick (but always had more power than him) was over 26th street, but he was also over Cicero and Taylor Street rackets also… I’m talkin early 1970s and up till his death in 79.

I’ll have to double check with someone but the West Side may have included Grand Ave and Elmwood Park as well. This gave immense power to Turk. He was essentially a Underboss under Obrien (Joey Aiuppa).

Marco during this era lived in Cicero but worked day to day on Taylor Street. He was involved in gambling and juice loans and Rush Street “nightclub boss”. His capo very well could of been Cerone. But his ”Boss” was Turk. There is a difference…  He was West Side so when it came time for Johnny DiFronzo to move him to Elmwood Park in 1987 it was not a big deal.

Understand what i’m saying in similiar fashion to the Marco/Johnny situation (but a little different). Turk & Joe Nick came up together on Taylor, but they bounced all around the West Side territories throughout the 1960s. Once Turk became a boss he was over alot of Capo’s.. including Joe Nick even though Joe Nick was centred in Cicero (after Taylor collapsed as a crew in 1968). Turk was also over Capo Angelo LaPietra. 

Alot of Cicero men would be moved to 26th street though like Apes, Angelo Lapietra, Brother Jimmy. Your thoughts ?

Black Angelo, Almost correct. Please let me clarify a bit. Turk was only the Underboss to Auippa because Cerone was in Jail in the early 1970′s. Remember? When Cerone got out of prison, He immediateley assumed his normal position as Boss of Elmwood Park and Underboss of the Entire Outfit. I got another one for you my Irish friend LOL, during the same period that Turk was the TEMPORARY  Underboss of the Entire Outfit, Johnny was the TEMPORARY Boss of Elmwood Park. Now, as a side note, Auippa, in my opinion from what I heard from my relative, preferred Torello.  

The Don listen up here u dirty jew i agree with you. Cerone did get his postion back, however Turk had more territory. I cant help but looking at the Last Supper Photo (taken in 1976) and Elmwood Park and Grand Ave are standing lol. And yes when Turk was Temp UB. Johnny was Temp Capo of EP.

Black Angelo, Horsey & All Readers,  Is there any way to link the Last Supper Picture to this posting?  That last Supper Picture from 1976 is worth a million words and proves The Don philosophy taught to him 100%.  That picture proves our Charts are way more accurate than anyone else who has ever written a Book about The Oufit.  That is a Chicago Commission Meeting of the Hierarchy of the Oufit.   7 of the men in the picture are Commission members. They are as follows:  Tony Accardo ( Senior Advisor ),  Joey Auippa ( Boss of Cicero & Top Boss of the Outfit)  Jack Cerone ( Boss of Elmwood Park & Underboss of the Outfit ),  Turk Torello ( Boss of 26th St. & next in line to be one of the Top Bosses ),  Joey Lombardo ( Boss of Grand Ave. )  Vince Solano (  New Boss of Rush St. ) &  Al Pillotto ( Boss of Chicago Heights ).  The other 3 men present are as follows:  Dominic DiBella ( Former Boss of Rush St. Who is retiring because he’s dying of Cancer ),  Joey DiVarco ( New Underboss of Rush St.)  &  Joe Amato ( Strong made guy who is at the meeting to discuss something of importance ).  2 other Top Level men are not present : Joe Ferriola ( Capo within the Extended Cicero Crew ) & John DiFronzo ( Capo within the Extended Elmwood Park Crew ).  Why are they not present?  Answer:  Because Cicero & Elmwood Park are already represented by Auippa & Cerone. There you have it. Chicago Outfit is structured by a pecking order of Bosses of  Street Crews. It is a true Syndicate.  I rest my case.

The Don,
LOL!  I would have had to empty my pockets then!
There is even a funnier part of the story that was strictly a coincidence. If watching from the outside in it could have looked pretty f@cked up. This is getting too narrow. Maybe I will tell it another time.

http://media.photobucket.com/image/last%20supper%20outfit/SportSyndicate/Chicago%20Syndicate/Chicago_Outfit_Last_Supper.jpg

thank you sir don,hasnt gotten me much but i sleep well….

Well, Rick. As a man with no design background whatsoever, I’ve gone about making these charts in way that I wouldn’t be surprised to find out is very stupid and unnecessarily labor intensive. I make the basic chart with boxes and headings, etc., in Microsoft Publisher and then fill in all the names and positions and insert notations where necessary. (I use the hell out of the alignment features and layout guides, obviously.) Finally, I convert the Publisher document to a PDF file and upload it to Scribd, where I have set up a profile. Previously, I used WordPress instead of Scrib as a hosting method, which worked fine, but some extremely unusual messages began appearing in the comments, so I switched platforms. Months ago, when we started with the charts, I was using Google docs, which I LOVED, but there’s a lot more you can do with Publisher at this point (as far as design), so I switched. There are 2 problems with working with PDF files. After a file is converted, certain small things can look messy (like Don Angel’s name in Chart #2). Another huge pain in the ass happens if you need to make changes because you have to reconvert the file to a Publisher document, edit it, and then re-re-convert it back to PDF and upload it again. I don’t think Burnstein’s Oufit chart is very accurate, but bless his heart for inserting all those little pictures of everyone. I could not imagine going to that kind of trouble. It sure look nice, though.

The Don, take this with a grain of salt, of course, but the two theories about the nature of the Last Supper meeting (that are espoused in books and in the press) are: 1) It is Vince Solano’s promotion ceremony. DiBella’s gaunt and frail appearance supports this, and I believe that is where “the Last Supper” title comes from.  2) It was the reception for Lombardo’s making ceremony. The latter theory stems from the fact that Lombardo is the only individual wearing a suit. Everyone else is dressed how my grandfather used to dress on a daily basis. Thoughts?

Joe, The Don, and Readers, here is another intriguing photo that I came across but can’t remember if I posted it before. That’s Joe B (2nd from left) at some kind of party or barbecue or something. Does anyone recognize any of the other individuals in the photo? Here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/chiski/5544986324/

I have a good Idea, but wish to defer until i check with one of my elderly sources to avoid being incorrect. However, I could name one right now with certainty. The foot at the bottom of the left corner of the photo is SQE.

Great photo.

Horsey,  It is Vince Solano’s recognition as a Boss and member of the Commission.  It was also a way of paying respect to a Former Boss who was dying of Cancer. by 1976, Lombardo had been made for a LONG time and had already been a Boss and Commission member for 5 or 6 years!  Lombardo liked to dress well when he was younger.  In that picture Lombardo was about 47 or 48 years old.  Do you know who took the picture?  Answer: Dominic Blasi.  Pretty Boy explained the whole episode to me years ago to me when I asked him. By the way, Thanks for posting the Last Supper Picture. We should post it with Chart #2.

One of the fellows was among my Uncle Romie’s closest friends. His last name slips my mind. Give me a few more minutes.

 Hello everyboby, it’s always a real pleasure to read you, thank you for sharing your knowledge!

Black Angelo, I’m not agree with you when you say that “In terms of MURDER IN ORDER TO CONSILADATE POWER AND TO ORGANIZE. Capone, Hoover, and Fort are the best that ever was in any organize crime group in any city.”

If you consider what have done the Sicilian Mafia in the ’70 and in the ’80 for running all the heroin drug market in the US or what are doing the Mexican Cartels since the ’90 for the same thing, you have to admit that in both cases, these criminal groups are much better organized, powerfull, ruthless and global that the Outfit or the Gangster Disciples (they would eat them alive).

(It’s not really a surprise that the Mexican Cartels and the Southern Italian Mafias the Cosa Nostra and the ‘Ndrangheta work together to run the drug trade at a global level and in countries as far as Australia)

The fact is that these groups operate on a global scale and are very low-key in the US, more behind the scene, and performed the slaughters in their lands (more than 1 000 hits in Sicily attributed to the Corleonesi of the Capo Di Tutti Capi Toto “‘U Cortu” Riina only in 1981-1982, more than 45 000 hits in Mexico since 2006 with the Sinaloa Cartel of Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman Loera as the big winner of that ongoing crime war). Nevertheless, they are much dangerous and could easily wipe out who they want in America if they need to do that. The American Mosters are afraid of the ruthlessness of the Zips and Jack Riley, the head of the DEA’s field office in Chicago, comparing the Italian-American Mobsters to the Sinaloa Cartel Sicarios, says recently that El Chapo “would eat them alive” if he wants. The level of savagery of the Mexican Narcos or of the Sicilian Mafiosi is unrivalled in the world of organized crime (another example, when Tommasso Buscetta become the first “pentito” of the Sicilian Mafia in the beginning of the ’80, ‘U Cortu orders the slaughter of all his familiars (children, parents, wife, cousins, uncles…) : 34 people).

Considering the nowadays Sinaloa Cartel, one can say that it is more widespread in the US that the Outfit or the Gangsters Disciples have never been (The National Drug Threat Assessment 2009 says that the Sinaloa Cartel has established a network of operative cells in at least 230 US cities) and more politically and economically connected in Mexico that the Outfit has never been in the US (in respect to the economic aspect, this cartel, considering documents of both American and European authorities, alledgely controls more than 3 500 legal enterprises all across the world).

Always a pleasure to read you guys and thank you for your blog Mr Fosco!

Quichotte,  I think Black Angelo was speaking from an American point of view within our Country. In the past, The Chicago Outfit was the strongest AMERICAN Mafia group going back to the beginning with Al Capone. I agree with you that on a GLOBAL level, The Italian Mafia Groups and the Mexican & Columbian Cartel Groups are more brutal and more powerful.

Look!  Roemer is in the picture with his hand on Accardo’s knee.

Right, I believe the photo was taken at teste’s nona’s house.

I believe these fellows might be Joe’s relatives. I am awaiting confirmation to verify if one of the fellows is who I strongly suspect it might be. I will keep quiet for a little longer.

The guy to Joe B’s left looks like Anthony DeGrazia (Rocco’s brother). I could double check with someone and maybe figure out who everyone is in the photo. But the guy on the left (of Accardo) looks to be police officer (retired at the time) Anthony DeGrazia. I will say the guy that tough look on his face on Joe B’s right his name “might” be Rocco “Rocky”. I could be wrong, but great photo.

Black,
I would say its the other way around. The guy on Joe’s left looks like it could be Rocky. I met Rocky and Joe 10-years after this photo was taken. They both looked much older when I met them. I would have never guessed until you mentioned their names. As I said, they looked much older in 10-short years.

I just checked a photo that my father had of Rocky D. Despite it being from several years from the one posted on the threads, again, I would say the man on the left of Joe could pass for Rocky.

Joe, I am curious who you are checking with.

Who was Martin Accardo? Any relation to Joe B. They were close in age.

Checking with myself on the Rocky D comparison.

I believe Martin was Joe’s brother. He had a number of siblings. I believe he has a brother Jimmy or John, who is still alive. A retired projectionist.

I take that back. His brother Jimmy or John (whichever) might have died in the last year.

http://www.myalcaponemuseum.com/id119.htm

Someone honored me today by adding me to Wikipedia. It has to be vetted and could very well be flushed out in the next day or two. Notability is a big issue and to be frank, I only have about eight credible news sources that covered me in recent years. So, we will see. In the meantime, if any of you would like to help, which I would appreciate, please visit the page and give it a nice rating below. Keeping me in Wikipedia would help bring traffic to our threads and give our hard work the much-deserved attention it should have. Thank you.

HF, I put in some links for your charts at RealDeal, but was just notified that they weren’t there.  Checked for myself and are deleted.

It should be mentioned that one of the major attractions of the ANP is that you interact with readers, more often than not answering their questions. You could also mentioned that the Fratto case and Giacchino scandals were predicted on ANP long before the mainstream media picked up the stories. Just a suggestion.

Thank you for the nice suggestions. I agree with you. It would have been nice to see the things you have listed mentioned. Perhaps – if the page is allowed to live – your suggestions would be added in the future.

That would be another great story…the Mooney knock down.  The why and how and who was behind it.  There’s a lot of theories, such as the Roemer version, but then there’s the real story.

Rick, you were cited as a source on my wiki page. please visit it and give it a nice rating, if you think it deserves one. thanks.

I noticed that someone added your suggestion. I appreciate it. However, without it being sourced, it will probably fall away. i have no idea how to source it.

I wonder why. Is Burnstein a moderator? 

Try downloading them from Scribd, and then uploading them to the RD. Is it a vBulletin site? You should be able to upload them in the threads, regardless of what kind of site it is. Rick, to tell you the truth, I wouldn’t be surprised if those guys are just not interested in reading something that’s going to undermine their current understanding of the Outfit. Some people are lazy thinkers. Most of those mob sites are just Five Families wankfests anyway, if you know what I mean. About the most complimentary thing I’ve ever heard about the Outfit on one of those message boards was something like, “Well, maybe the Outfit could compete with one of the smaller families, like the Colombos, in something like bookmaking.” What a joke. Not that I care very much if someone is going to minimize the Outfit’s role in the history of organized crime. What bothers me is when people ignore evidence that is contrary to their sacred cows. 

Horsey,  The Charts are there.

Type your reply…

lol

Rick,  ANP already did a story about the Mooney knockdown and there were over 500 comments. Look at the list of Joe’s past articles and you will see it.

Joe, When i first looked at the photo, it took me about 2 minutes to conclude one of them where DeGrazia’s then i figured the man with horn rimmed glasses had to be Anthony. However now my mind is playin tricks on me lol. You could be right and that Rocco has the glasses and the other is Anthony. I know both brothers did look alike. Again I could check with someone about both men and the others. Your thoughts ?

I have a photo of Rocky that I looked at after you mentioned him. The photo I have was taken about 10-years after the one posted in the threads. He has the same glasses on. lol

Rick, I suspect that Burnstein and/or his associates have sour grapes toward ANP. A year or so ago someone emailed Joe a copy of his elaborate Outfit flowchart. Joe provided a link to it in one of the threads for his readers, and the general consensus was that it was pretty far-fetched, and New York-esque. (Though I don’t ever remember Joe personally saying anything about it one way or another.) It was a hell of an effort on Burnstein’s part–I commend him–but it wasn’t accurate, really. One thing I remember about it was that 25% of the guys on it were deceased. Also, Tony Spavone, the restaurateur, was listed as a soldier or something. It was really too much. 

Someone purporting to be Burnstein (could have been him for all I know) asked me to look at it and help fix any mistakes before it was published. I respectfully declined. I do not have the mentality for building those things. I am not trying to be disrespectful, but his chart gave me a great deal of comic relief.

I think Rick is saying that he posted the links in the threads of a mobology message board of one the moderators promptly removed them.

Joe,  I went on the Wikipedia page and gave you a 5,3,5,5 Star Rating. I was honest and that is a very good rating.  Did it go through?  I don’t know if I did it correctly. Please advise.

Thank you. Yes, I could see the number of people who rated went up (anyone could see it). Again, thank you.

Yes, there was definitely some unusual stuff on that chart, as I recall. I think he listed some type of Chicago “operative” who set up a satellite Outfit crew in Italy or something strikingly out of the ordinary. 

Rick, here the link to my Scribd profile: http://www.scribd.com/horsey_fart

Click the chart you’re interested in, and after your directed to that page, there is a download command on the menu to the right of the chart. What I was suggesting is that you download the charts, and then upload them to the appropriate RD thread, if possible. 

I just looked at the page for the first time in a while. HF, I had no idea you were African American. Cool.
Okay, how is Coli in Jack’s crew? Why is Gus higher than Sam?

the Don, do you belong to that RealDeal site?

I tried to join because Rick told me that they talk about me on there. Then i found out its by invitation only. I have not received an invitation.

Right, those are two changes that the Don has brought to my attention already. I have to correct those errors on chart #1, but won’t get to it until later in the weekend.

I tried to join it once just to view you threads. They don’t allow you to just lurk, for some reason. I ended reading its threads at a friend’s house who is a subscriber. It’s not really my thing, mainly because, as I said, it seemed to be a Five Families wankfest, and I don’t care about what’s going on in New York.

HF, I gave RD the link.  I wish I could upload them to the site, but to cut down on bandwidth and expenses they took out the upload function.

Did you read my responses a few threads down? I was speculating as to some possible motives behind the links being deleted

Burnstein gets his info from FBI sources and tries to figure them out from there.  Personally, he seems to be an easy going guy who has his hands on a lot of things, but I have always found him helpful.  His main focus is Detroit.  Anyway, I don’t think he had anything to do with it.  He’s not a moderator.  The moderator is David who lives in Holland.

By the way, he put out a paperback on the Family Secrets case, but before it came out the publisher forced him to coauthor it with Sam Giancana because of the name recognition.  Giancana didn’t do a lick of work but his name went first on the cover.  Burnstein was forced to put together the whole thing by himself with a short deadline.  He made a few mistakes but he worked his ass off and got screwed by the publisher, who after all that didn’t even market the book.  He may not be an expert on the Outfit, but I have a lot of respect for him.  He’s honest and always helpful.

Believe me, there’s people who are interested and have respect for everybody here.  Many are coming around to the “new” understanding of the Outfit hierarchy.  As a matter of fact, I first heard of Joe Fosco from people on RD.

I’ve been studying organized crime for over 30 years.  Chicago has always been confusing because of the contradictory info.  Then Roemer came out with his books and he seemed to know what he was talking about.  After coming to this site it’s like going back to school.  No sacred cows here, but a relearning process.

For the posters on RD, some of the stuff here goes against what they read and let’s be honest, they don’t know you guys.  Things have to be proven.  But Joe knows his stuff and has the background.  That’s the foot in the door.  Be patient.  Give them time.  This is new to me and I’m full of questions trying to understand things.  Yes, we’re used to New York because so much has been written about New York, and several informers have written and published books giving inside information.  Joe Valachi, Joe Bonanno, Bill Bonanno, Sammy Gravano, etc.  No insider has written a book about Chicago, so we can only go by what has been written so far.

I’ll see if I can get you in.

What do you suppose David from Holland’s problem is with posting links to those charts?

I’m familiar with both of his books. I’m not sure what to make of Mooney nephew, Sam, the author. His book about Mooney was awful, but the Corbitt one kept my interest. He’s interviewed on those TV documentaries about the Outfit.

I think there’s a misunderstanding here.  The link wasn’t deleted from RD.  I put the link for the chart in a post in RD, a link direct to Scribd.  It was a good link at the time.  Later, after clicking on the link the URL in Scribd said deleted.  So it wasn’t anyone from RD who did the deleting, it was at Scribd.

I was unaware of it.  I read the recent one about who killed him.  Do you know the title?

I’ll go to it right now

Rick, there used to be someone named “Vin” who used post these outlandish stories about the Outfit on this site. I can only guess that he suffered from some kind of serious paranoid schizophrenia or was at very least in some kind of dissociative or hysterical state while he was composing his long narratives about the mob. But I’ll tell you what: Roemer’s stories were no more accurate than Vin’s. Roemer wrote any old crap, if you want my opinion.  And time has shown how ridiculous his stories are. 

Rick, 2 older version of the chart WERE deleted, by me. For some reason, the thumbnails of the deleted drafts still appear on my “shelf.” Go to my Scribd profile (http://www.scribd.com/horsey_fart) and concern yourself only with 2 larger charts under where it says recent activity. One is titled, ”
Chicago Outfit 1974 – 1985″ and the other is titled “Taylor St.”

I suspect that they’re not posting my links over at RD because I’m black, lol.

That is not a laughing matter. I bet you are right.

don,has shine angelo would say ur usually spot on,but on this we disagree.i respect your opinion on most stuff but i feel youve been buffaloed by cyotees opinon.or whatever his name.the fact that there is so much violence and killing only shows a lack of a definite power base.to the naive it appears to be a cohesive force,in reality it is a bunch of thugs with their own agenda…

Fuck no. Why would I want to argue with a bunch of New Yorkers about their rat infested 5 families where everbody in New York City is a made guy. I only want to talk about what I know and that is the Chicago Outfit which was always more elite and superior to New York anyway.

Horsey,  I thought you were Italian because you said your family came from Taylor St.  Also, you have your picture next to all the postings. Now, where you posted the Charts there is a picture of an African American man who says he’s Horsey. I’m really confused. If you don’t mind AND IT DOESN’T MATTER TO ME AT ALL, who is the correct Horsey?

The Don, I am not African American. It was a joke. I was amused by the expression on the man’s face in the photo. (I am connoisseur of weird pictures.) My family lived on Polk, just north of Taylor. 

LOL. Why don’t you put the last Supper Picture there instead?  It would make our Charts that You worked on with design and me with my knowledge of the Structure more authentic and taken more seriously.

Rick,  I believe Burstein is a nice guy, but tell him to stick to Detroit because he really doesn’t understand how the Outfit functions as a Syndicate.

Good idea. I’ll change it. Thanks for saving me from myself. 

Rick,  You are 100% correct my friend.  This is the only place anywhere where the true structure of The Oufit is detailed.  It is based upon Street Crew power.  From the power of the Street crew comes certain Individual Power. If you look up the word Syndicate, that is basically what the structure and operating method is of the Outfit. It’s a building block power of Street Crews united by the Boss of the Most powerful crew for a common purpose.  I first introduced this theme in detail  here on ANP.  Joe Fosco understood it and had actually talked about it somewhat a long time ago. That’s why when I first came onto ANP I liked Joe’s style and I could tell he really knew a lot about the Outfit structure.  Black Angelo understood it.  Horsey didn’t really understand the Concept at first, but boy did he learn quickly.

Kkanz,  Your right. I see your point. The Mexican Cartels are a bunch of out of control animals killing each other faster than the stupid Mexican police can count. I think these Global drug dealing people make a ton of  money but it is not real well organized and there’s thousands involved. I shoud have made that point more clearly to Quichotte. I don’t really know about these Global drug dealers and I really, to be honest, don’t care about them.  I need to just stick to the Outfit. When did they stop selling  Spearment gum in a white wrapper?

The Don, Speaking of the New York Mafia - Chicago Outfit… I recall a famous saying by New York mobster Lucky Luciano after one of his visits in Chicago quote “a real goddamn crazy place! Nobodys safe in the streets !” and this was coming from a rough nationally known gangster from New York. That spoke volumes of how dangerous Chicago was and the syndicate (Outfit).

I also recall when Louie “The Mooch” Eboli’s father Genovese Boss Tommy Eboli was assasinated in 1972. Word got back to some of the New York Mobsters who was behind it and they was going to send some guys to Chicago and do away with The Mooch. Because they figured he would want to seek out revenge and word on the street was Louie did want revenge (he did i’m told).

The Gambino Family and the underboss of the Genovese was allegdly behind the demise of Tommy Eboli. Anyhow Frank Costello got a hold of Carlo Gambino and Frank Tieri and said ” you can send some guys out their (Chicago) to hit Tommy Ryans kid but i can assure those guys we send will come back home all right… in bodybags… That guy (meaning Aiuppa) does not fuck around, and he’ll freeze us out of the national unions”.

Gambino and the new Genovese boss quickly shut down any idea of knocking down The Mooch… The Mooch dissapeared anyhow, Obrien was hiding him indefinatly until he thought things calmed down or that The Mooch himself calmed down. So just 2 little stories of what Lucky and Costello thought of Chicago.

Yes, that’s what I did the second time.  Hopefully people will start to see your work and comment on it.

Yes, posted below and I think we clarified the misunderstanding.  For the benefit of other posters, the link was to one that HF later deleted.  What I wrote was interpreted to mean that someone from RD did the deletion of the links.  I added another post that linked to HF’s profile where the correct charts can be downloaded.  Looking forward to some responses from posters on RD.

Black Angelo,  Lucky Luciano said that way back around 1930 when Capone was busy getting things in order.  Fast forward to 1972.  New York wouldn’t dare come into Chicago and kill anybody without the permission of the Top Boss of the Outfit. They knew better! Especially a made guy!! Holy shit would there have been trouble like they had never seen.  Most of it would have been financial freeze outs with the Union and a complete freeze out of Las Vegas.  Do you remember in the movie, Casino, when those two guys from New York were waiting for a guy named Carmine and were told to leave the Casino by Joe Pesce.  Based on a true incident, my friend.    

I gotta check my terminology guys.  Maybe some things in So. Cal are different than Chi-Town. LOL

By knockdown I meant when Giancana was demoted as a boss, not when he was killed.  I think a lot of us would like to know the story behind that.  As an example of the BS that’s out there, here’s the Wikipedia entry:

“Giancana’s behavior was too high profile for Outfit tastes and
attracted far too much federal scrutiny. He also refused to cut his
underlings in on his lavish profits from offshore casinos in Iran and Central America. Both of these factors resulted in much bitterness among the Outfit’s rank-and-file.

As a result, Giancana was deposed as day-to-day boss by the still in control Accardo and replaced by Joseph “Joey Doves” Aiuppa.[when?] After about seven years of exile inside a lavish villa in Cuernavaca, Mexico, Giancana was arrested by Mexican authorities[when?] and deported to the United States.”
 
So Giancana was replaced by Aiuppa?  I think he came later.  I remember him being replaced by Teets Battaglia from his same crew.  Did Giancana voluntarily step down to move to Mexico, or did Ricca tell him to?  If the latter, was Ricca alone in the decision or joined by others?  If so, who were the others?  Was Giancana attracting too much attention for the good of the Outfit?  Was Accardo involved, as is popularly thought?  Did Battaglia use Giancana’s time in jail as an opportunity to move up to the top spot?  And once Giancana was demoted, was he just a soldier in the Taylor Street crew?  That would be a good story.

Rick,  Did you see my posting 1 hour ago where I started off by saying ‘ Rick you are 100% correct. ‘ ?

I gave it a high rating too.

Nope, missed that one.  Anyway, maybe the questions will stimulate some knowledgeable replies and an article

Rick,  I’m posting up here before Black Angelo sees your question because he will get upset with a few things mentioned. LOL.  Giancana left Chicago because the Feds had him caught between a rock & a hard spot.  He left on his own accord with the advice of Ricca & Accardo.  Ricca made the final decision with Mooney himself.  Battaglia then became the Boss of Taylor St. & the Top Boss in the Outfit.  Alderisio then became one of the two Capos within the Extended Taylor St. Crew, the other still being Bucciere.  After Battaglia went to jail,  Alderisio stepped in briefly and he then went to Jail.  There was now a changing of the guard.  Taylor St. had lost a lot of  power and the Feds seemed to be really focusing on them.  Joey Auippa then became the Top Boss in the Outfit while still remaining of course as the boss of the Cicero Crew.  In Chicago, ‘ knock down’  means to be killed.  Also, Mooney was NEVER ordered by Accardo to do anything.  Giancana was a Boss. Bosses don’t get demoted.  Soldiers are not made guys in the Street Crews.  Giancana being demoted to a soldier is a joke and actually quite laughable, no offense.

Rick,  Go over to the left and press on the face of The Don. You will see a list of all my comments.

Rick,  Small point of clarification. Alderisio was trying to hold it together briefly but he was never a Top Boss. The Succession went from Giancana to Battaglia and then Basically to Auippa as a real Top Boss. Cicero now was really becoming Strong.

Yes, I forgot that soldier in Chicago is different than everywhere else.  So when he demoted himself, what was his rank?  Lowest rank in a street crew is officially called what?  If you’re a made guy who’s below a capo, then what?  Sorry for the traditional thinking, but soldier makes sense to me (I believe what you say…I’m still getting used to it LOL).  My PREVIOUS understanding, for example, was that Spilotro was a soldier…a made guy/soldier.

Back in the old days before they called the lowest ranked made guys soldiers they were picciotti, or “boys.”

BTW, thanks for the great info.

Rick,  Go to the left of your screen and click on the face sillouette of The Don and you will see all of my comments as you scroll downward.  I believe you have missed a couple of very important comments to help you so I find myself sometimes repeating a bit.  To answer your question above:  Forget the word demoted.  He was a Boss and was always that until the day he died. He simply exiled himself for awhile.  He just wasn’t the Top Boss anymore.  Spilotro was a made guy, not a soldier.  I’ll give you a rundown a the relationship structure which of course varies depending upon the ability of each man.  Let’s take a regular Crew from the past like the North Side /Rush St. Crew:  Boss, Underboss, Made men, Soldiers & Street Associates who do business with the Crew.  You also have High Level Associates who are under the Control of the Oufit or do business with them.  That is the basic structure of each regular Crew.  The Crew that has the Top Boss of the entire Outfit is called an Extended Crew.  That means the basic structure of that Crew is:  Boss ( & Top Boss of the Entire Outfit), Personal Underboss, Capo, Made men ( who are either partners with the Capo or partners directly with the Top Boss,  Soldiers & Street Associates who do business with the Crew.  You also have again High Level Associates who do business with the Top Level. Note:  the Underboss of each Crew is not to be confused with the Underboss of the Entire Outfit.  Rick, my friend, you are taking Outfit Course 101! Remember to read All of my postings so I will not have to repeat myself.  Grazie.

Did not know about clicking on the icon.  That’s great.  Yes, there were one or two things I missed.  Thanks for the explanation.  I am working on an “A” in Chicago Outfit studies LOL.  Should be ready for Outfit 102 soon!  In other words, you explained things very well.  Nitti made the Outfit unique, almost like a business model.  Despite its different structure it was accepted by the rest of the Cosa Nostra and had a seat on the Commission since 1931.  Who’s going to argue with Chicago?

I also read some postings on Chicago’s close relationship to the Luciano/Genovese crime family.  That actually goes all the way back to Capone first coming to Chicago.  In Brooklyn he worked for Frankie Yale, who was a group leader under Joe “the Boss” Masseria.  Masseria was the boss of the crime family before Luciano.

There’s something else, and a lot of folks here will probably disagree.  According to Nick Gentile, a very influential Mafia leader from the 1910s to the 1930s, Masseria actually made a Capone a capo who reported directly to Masseria.  The Mafia (yes, Mafia) boss at that time was Anthony Lombardo.  Masseria told Capone he could kill him and take over.  He did, and until 1931 there was a succession of puppet Mafia bosses in Chicago.  This is confirmed by conversations captured on hidden bugs outside of Chicago.  In April, 1931, Salvatore Maranzano, the new Boss of Bosses, recognized Capone as the boss of Chicago.

Unfortunately Capone’s term would be short-lived as he was sent to prison.  He managed to stay in charge until he was sent to Alcatraz.  That’s when it went to Nitti and Ricca.  The rest is history.

After all this explanation I still have to admit confusion over what Joe Fosco’s friend told him about Lefty Campagna giving orders to Frank Nitti.  I have to wonder, how is this possible?

Thanks,

Rick

don,i dont know the year,but it was old man wrigleys complying to his interpetation of the go green movement….

 Hello guys, thank you for your replies.

I’m disagree with you in some points. Yes, the Mexican Cartels are organized crime groups and not only a bunch of thugs with their own agenda. Their roots came back to the ’30 but their fast growing expansion can be dated to the beginning of the ’90.

Focusing on the Sinaloa Cartel, according to Edgardo Buscaglia, a security expert from the United Nations, it maintains a presence in more than 40 countries and owns more than 3 500 legal enterprises all across the world. the United States Intelligence Community considers this Cartel as “the most powerful drug trafficking organization in the world”. Francesco Forgione, who had presided the Anti-Mafia Commission of the Italian Parliament between 2006 and 2008, has said that: “When we retrace the history of the Mexican Cartels, we have the feeling of reading the history of the Sicilian Mafia: The savage crime wars, the alliances and the merciless vendettas. In both cases, we encounter the same relations with the economy, the finance and the politic, with mayors, governors and maybe presidents chosen by the criminal organizations”.

The Mexican Cartels are not organized like the Sicilian Mafia, but yes, they are organized. The Sinaloa Cartel is supposedly managed by a small Commission presided by Joaquin Guzman Loera (AKA El Chapo, who makes the Forbes’billionaire and world’s most powerfull people lists), and composed until 2008 by guys like Ismael Zambada Garcia (AKA El Mayo), Vicente Carrillo Fuentes (AKA El Virrey, brother of El Señor De Los Cielos, which fortune had been estimated to $25 billions of which the Mexican authorities had frozen $10 billions in the beginning of the ’2000), the American-born Edgar Valdez Villareal (AKA La Barbie: they called him this way because he has blond hair and blue eyes), Juan Jose Esparragoza Moreno (AKA El Azul), Ignacio Coronel Villareal (AKA Nacho, who managed the Murder Squads of the Cartel) and Marcos Arturo Beltran Leyva (AKA El Barbas). Most of these men are born in the village of Badiraguato, in the rural and poor Sinaloa estate. The 750 Sinaloa Cartel members arrests conducted by the US authorities the 25 February 2009 (Operation Xcellerator), accompanied by the seizure of more than $59 million in cash and numerous vehicles, planes, and boats don’t have destroyed the structure of this group.

The slaughters in Mexico don’t mean that these groups are not organized, they just adopt a Toto Riina-like posture: whacking everybody (and their families too) who contest their power, whoever they are (narcos, cops, judges, politics…).

The case of El Chapo is particular: He had dissapeared of the Federal Prison of Puente Grande in 2001 when he learnt that he is going to be extradited to the US. The last time he had supposedly been seen is in a prestigious restaurant of a small town of Sinaloa, where thugs who protect him had come to take off all the mobil phones, and then paid the meal for everybody in the place. He’s said to be hidding in “ranchos” of the rural Sinaloa, the same way Capo Di Tutti Capi Bernardo “‘U Tratturi” Provenzano hide himself in sheepfolds of the rural Sicily until his arrest in 2006.

Rick, your getting into to many conspiracy theories my friend. Nobody ordered Capone around (but Torrio who really started the National Commission, not Lucky Luciano). Anyways Masseria and Maranzano where both killed in 1931. Capone outlived both of them.

It was apparant who was in control of Chicago when Capone took over Cicero. Anthony Lombardo was very important because he headed the Unione Siciliana. So he would of been aligned with the Sicilian bosses in New York (like Maranzano or a Masseria) but lets make one thing clear NO ONE ordered Capone around from afar or in Chicago (but possibly Johnny Torrio who was still tremendously powerful after he left Chicago).

And nodbody gave any orders to Frank Nitti, the only men I could see doing that was the men out in the Heights… James Emery or Frank LaPorte. THEY WAS ON CAPONES LEVEL (the Heights street crew was bigger than any family in New York). Now that I could buy. Lefty Campagna was powerful though, but Capone had a successor and that was Nitti.

Thank you. However, Wiki is raising some issues that can be well argued. It would be nice to receive some help.

Joe, for some reason the comment box is populated with the word “Joe” before I even type anything (i.e., by default). Also, below, one of your comments reads “Type your reply…” which I assume was accidental. Is there a glitch with the comments?

Horsey: I found that photo online a few years back. The person that posted it claimed to be related to the Palermo family. If I remember correctly the person to Accardo’s left was identified, his last name was Palermo.

Thanks Dom. You might have solved it. Joe had a son-in-law named Mike Palermo, who was from Melrose Park. He and Joe’s daughter have been divorced for years. Mike’s family owned Mayo Plumbing in Melrose Park. In recent years, Tony Jr, heard that his former brother-in-law began selling family photos that include images of Joe B, via the internet. Tony Jr is not very happy about it. If said photo is a product of the Palermo photo market, the little boy could very well be one of Joe’s grandsons.

Ah, I don’t know if she recognized the garages or the alley or what, but my wife said she’d bet me 100-bucks that the photo was taken in Melrose Park.  

Like I said some of you will disagree.  Just remember this is not me saying this, but Nick Gentile and other Mafia bosses in other parts of the country who were secretly recorded.  Call it conspiracy if you like, that’s what they said.

Also, like the Chicago Outfit, there’s a lot of misinformation about the Unione Siciliana.  I researched this group a long time ago by going through old records and even speaking to a past president.  I know what the truth is about the Unione Siciliana and its not what is popularly known.

Regarding Nitti, that’s is from Joe Fosco’s source alone and Joe says this guy is credible.  Like I said before I have no bone in this fight, I’m just bring things up so we can discuss and settle.

HF, just to let you know that people from RD are now accessing your charts and leaving positive feedback.  Not one negative comment, no disagreements about the setup.  Maybe this can lead to you providing your real name and getting the credit you deserve.

Hey Rick,  This is the Don.  I’m the one who gave Horsey the Street Crew Structure and information. I’m the one that’s answering most all your questions. And your questions are very involved and technical.  Horsey took the info. & designed the charts and posted them.  What about my credit? It was a joint effort mainly between me and him.  He even told you that at the beginning.  To be honest, I’m a little offended you keep ignoring that fact when it comes to the charts.  

Look I dont care what Nick Gentile said or other mafia bosses. How would they know what in the fuck is going on in Chicago anyhow. Al Capone had the last word on any or everything that came in and out of Chicago.

And Nitti was the boss/Chairman after Capone went to prison. Nitti was just smarter than Capone and ran the Syndicate differently and kept his head down. Nobody ordered Nitti around or told him what to do. He was advised well.

Again Joe Fosco is not the end all be all when it comes to Organized Crime in Chicago. Trust Me. For Instance if Joe Fosco says Marco Damico is not made and Frank Cullotta says Marco is Made. They both know alot about Organized Crime in Chicago and have their sources. So you could get alot of misinformation from alot of good sources.

So if Joe told you Campagna was running things. I totally disagree ! Again I could buy LaPorte or Emery out south in the Heights calling some shots and thats it !

Quit believing everything you read or trying to go against conventinal wisdom. I mean the next thing you know where going to have people on here saying “Isnt it true Teets battaglia ran the 42 gang and then was boss of the Outfit 1957 – 1965.. He secretly controled Mooney” … I mean give me a break, Nitti was the boss, Not Campagna. Trust Me.

And nobody bossed Al Capone around (besides Torrio) or Capone killed thm, then they didnt control shit. You get me. All the Unione Sicilina guys ended up dead, as well as Frankie Yale, Maranzano and Masseria. Okay.

Rick,  Concerning Capone.  Again we’re now talking about the 1930′s again.  However, let me say this to you. When Capone left Brooklyn and went to Chicago, he made his bones with Torrio.  He was NEVER a Capo of Joe Masseria. I repeat NEVER.  Masseria & Maranzano were both outsmarted and killed by Luciano & Lansky. It was actually Jewish hit men dressed differently who went into Maranzano’s office and killed him.  Maranzano was Sicilian & Masseria was Napolitan like Capone. While the war was going on in New York, Torrio & Capone were in their OWN war with people in Chicago. After all the smoke cleared in New York & Chicago, The National Meeting took place in Chicago with Luciano & Lansky present.  Capone hosted the meeting.  What does that tell you?  The fact that the National meeting was organized and took place in Chicago speaks volumes.

Agreed. The photo has a summer day in Melrose Park written all over it.

I agree with everything you said Don, except Masseria was Sicilian (not Neapolitan). Trust Me. And Rick, read my posting below this one.

Black Angelo,  I agree 100%. Yes, you are correct about Masseria.  He was Sicilian Italian, not Neapolitan Italian. Luciano respected Capone tremendously and Capone helped him organize some kind of National Commission of mutual cooperation after the wars.  The NATIONAL meeting for this took place in CHICAGO ( as you obviously know ) not fucking New York. Rick doesn’t want to give Chicago enough credit, doesn’t want to give Nitti enough credit & doesn’t want to give me enough credit for the Charts! LOL

Don, please don’t be offended.  I am and will make sure you are given credit.

My major concern on RD at the time was that people were complaining at
first about the deleted link.  After that was resolved I wrote the
previous post about how the RD people like the info because earlier he
had some concerns that someone was sabotaging the link, so I wanted to
reassure him that that wasn’t the case.  As for RD, I’m trying to make
sure that people don’t give me credit.  You guys deserve it all.  I’m
just trying to spread the word.  So trust me, I will make sure that they
know your contribution.

When I posted the link at RD the first time I mentioned you, Horsey, Black Angelo and Joe.  The last time not so much because it was late and and just wanted people to have the link, but I’ll go back and remind people that it came from all you guys.  When it comes to the charts I’ll add that HF did the design and you provided most of the info.  Believe me, I’m all about giving you guys full credit.  And I always thank you and give my appreciation, so please don’t take it that I’m ignoring you.  I consider all your contributions valuable.

IF you want I can even copy and paste the posts on RD so you can see for yourself that you are being credited.

BTW, is there a way I can email you?  Joe has my email address. 

Angelo, my friend, Nitti was the boss.  I already said I believe you on that one and agree.  On some of the older stuff that I mentioned, we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

On LaPorte a few years back there was a biography of Capone where the author claimed LaPorte was the real boss behind the throne.  I don’t buy it myself.  Back in Capone’s time Dominic Roberto and Jimmy Emery were the bosses in the Heights, not LaPorte who was an up and comer.  And Roberto and Emery both answered to Capone.  From the time Torrio left to the time Nitti was put in charge Capone was the man in Chicago.  And on that I think we can agree.

You’re getting your name out there and soon will have a book out.  Then there will be no doubt about your newsworthiness.  For now I think Wikipedia is most concern about getting donations.

Joe did you receive my email?

OMG, Don.  Look at my other post.  I am giving you full credit. 

Nitti wasn’t about credit, just about finding out the truth.  I believe and agree he was the boss after Capone.  I had questions about it and came to you guys, and you guys answered.  You have my full gratitude and that.

As for this early history, I’m just going by people who were there.  I wasn’t there, no one on this board was there, but these people were.  I just wanted to know what really happened and let the evidence speak for itself.  I really don’t care about giving one city precedence over another.  I’m from So. Cal. which had nothing to do with forming the Commission.  Personally, I don’t get into to the “which city is badder than the rest.”  I only care about the truth.

On Capone and Luciano, there’s a cool photo out there of Luciano, Ciro Terranova and Capone swimming in Capone’s huge pool in Florida.  Luciano also talked about Capone and had a huge amount of respect for him.  The thing that’s amazing is that these guys were so young yet had all this power — Capone being one of the younger ones.

Rick,  Thank You. Much appreciated. Yes, you can email me through Joe.  He can forward it me.  He’s the Boss of the ANP Street Crew!  I’m a made man in his crew. LOL.  As far as my knowledge about the structure of the Outfit, it came from listening and asking general type questions over several years with my relative who is a made man.  Nothing was ever told to me about anything that would ever compromise anyone else.  For example, NO QUESTIONS were ever asked about knock downs.  General questions about who was with which crew, how does Bookmaking run in general, structure of the Outfit compared to New York etc.  What prompted a lot of general questions was Roemer’s Book when it came out in 1994.  I read the book and it was somewhat contradictory to reality. I started asking more general questions and learned Roemer’s Books were way off even more than I originally thought,  especially about how many actual made men there were in the Outfit and about Tony Accardo which was way exaggerated by Roemer who I think was secretly in love with the Guy. My relative basically laughed at the Book.

Rick,  See my posting before this one.  Everything is cool. Out of sheer curiosity, are you in Los Angeles?  The Mafia Group in L.A. was always somewhat ineffective.  They were the most effective when Jack Dragna was the Boss.  After Dragna it was Nick Licata, then Dominic Brooklier, then Pete Milano.  They were subserviant to Chicago.  If Chicago ever needed something in L.A., the order was given and was obeyed.  Johnny Roselli, made man who reported direct to the Top Bosses of the Outfit, was out there for a long time.  In Las Vegas, there was Marshall Caifano ( Taylor St. man ) & then of Course Tony Spilotro ( Grand Ave. man ) who answered mainly to his Boss, Joey Lombardo, but also of course to Auippa & Cerone, the Top Bosses of the Outfit.  There also was another made man in So. California who never gets mentioned.  He was in Palm Springs & had a few soldiers working under him running Bookmaking out in that area.  His name was Frank Bucciere.  His nickname was ‘ The Horse ‘.  Accardo also had a second home there in Palm Springs.

Rick, I appreciate that you like charts and the fact that they’re apparently well-received on the other forum, so far. As you are well aware of by now, they were an ANP group effort, spearheaded by the Don. Feel free to spread them around at your leisure. From this point on, consider yourself “on the know” and don’t let those Five Families groupies push you around on the internet. 

Are there any books out there that you would recommend?  For fans of Frank Nitti it would probably be the book “After Capone.”  Maybe we can make a list of “recommended” and “not recommended” books.  I’m sure Roemer’s books would go on the second list LOL.  I have just about every book on the Chicago Outfit, which is quite a lot.

I got into an discussion earlier today with someone who argued that, per local parlance, the proper saying is “in the know.” But I’ve always heard it stated “ON the know” or “ON the legit” or  ”ON the arm.” As a matter of curiosity, I’m wondering if Joe Fosco would care to weigh in on this trivial matter. ON or IN?

Thanks, Rick.

Rick are you from Chicago, or do you have relatives here? Just curious.

Thanks Horsey,  You’re a good guy. The Chicago term is ‘ In the Know ‘.

Thanks, Don.

Between the two of us, I’ll bet you that Joe will say that Willie and Buddy said “ON the arm.”

Sorry. I meant that I’ll bet you that Joe will say that Willie and Buddy said “ON the know.”

Captive City is okay. There are dollar figure exaggerations and other over the top exaggerations but not bad. Ovid Demaris authored the Book. He doesn’t have any chart in the book but he does talk about a Board of Directors. He doesn’t understand the Street Crew structure at all. He never gets into it. the book becomes tedious without a good flow.  There are some redeeming qualities of the book that are better than most. He talks about certain individuals at the end of the book and explains their specialties. Some of the other things related to that subject are good. Maybe the Family secrets book is good, but I have not read it.  

I am south of Los Angeles in Orange County.  Yes, I know a lot about the L.A. mob, but again, I like the older stuff.  Jimmy Fratianno and Rosselli both agreed that Dragna was the most effective, but the guy who came after him was not Licata but Frank Desimone.  Part of the reason he got the job was because his father, Rosario Desimone, was a boss before Dragna and people liked him.  Fratianno and Rosselli couldn’t stand him and they transferred to Chicago.  According to his own words he was a member of the L.A. mob while Dragna was boss, and had lived in California since 1924.  He came out for his health, so when he was in Chicago it was under Torrio and operated as a Chicago man in California until just after Nitti became boss (Nitti and Dragna both became bosses around the same time).  While operating in California, Rosselli maintained close ties to Chicago.  According to an FBI report, while Rosselli was in prison with Ricca and Campagna he told them that he thought Charles “Cherry Nose” Gioe was informing to cut down his sentence.  Not long after Gioe got out he was killed.  Frank “Diamond” Maritote, who was related to Al Capone by marriage and who was close to Gioe, was killed soon afterward.  Rosselli enjoyed being in the Outfit under Ricca and Giancana, but once Auippa was in charge things changed and his days were numbered.

Two other guys who moved to southern California from the Chicago area were Anthony Pinelli and Jasper Matranga (and yes, Matranga was in the Chicago area before and I found him the Chicago Tribune in the 1940s).  Matranga joined while Dragna was still boss, but Pinelli just retired from being with the Chicago Heights crew.  Frank LaPorte was a frequent visitor to California and had business deals with a number of California members (including in San Francisco).

During the 1920s through the 1950s the LAPD was tough on certain Chicago mobsters.  Al Capone came for a visit around 1927 and the LAPD turned him around to go back on the plane (yes, this really happened!).  In the 1950s they chased out Joe B.  He didn’t go to Los Angeles but did move to neighboring Riverside County into the town of Indian Wells (twenty miles away from Palm Springs).  He and Pinelli were seen visiting each other not too infrequently.

Interestingly the connection between Los Angeles and Chicago goes back before Capone.  Early boss Vito Di Giorgio attended a Mafia “general assembly” in Buffalo in 1922.  His case didn’t go well and he was given the death penalty.  He went to Chicago to meet with Chicago Mafia boss Mike Merlo right afterward for his support in getting his death sentence reversed.  He probably never got the chance to meet with him since he and a friend were murdered by gunmen in a barbershop/poolroom as he was getting shaved.

I also don’t think the relationship was like Chicago being a dictatorship over the other Families, but I think it was an advisory relationship.  Chicago was the only large Family from the Midwest to the West Coast, so the other Familes looked up to Chicago.  In theory, however, every boss was independent.  On the Commission  the Los Angeles Family was not represented by Chicago but by the Lucchese Family, as Dragna had a long history with them.  That lasted until the 1960s, then the Bonanno Family represented L.A.  Frank Desimone didn’t like Bonanno so he tried to undermine him.  It was reported he pissed of Bonanno so much that he wanted to kill Desimone.

How’s that for some history?

Rick,  Very impressive. I forgot about Frank DeSimone. You’re correct. I agree Chicago was more like the Advisory Board to all the other small groups west of Chicago. But I know for a fact, that if Chicago made a serious request to have something done, Los Angeles would accomodate, especially with Union Activity or even murder. Frank LaPorte was a powerhouse Boss of the Chicago Heights Faction and was close to Ricca. Al Pillotto succeeded him. He was the underboss to La Porte.  I only respectfully disagree on one point.  On the National Commision, in the old days from AT LEAST 1957 forward,  ( the West Coast was represented by Chicago, even if L.A. might have also had a friendly relationship with one of the 5 Families in New York.  The L.A. Group also had a good relationship with Cleveland, because that’s where the Milano Brothers came from. However, when push came to shove, L.A. answered to Chicago.

Rick,  Also, on second thought. L.A. had Chicago as their representative on the National matters before 1957 because in 1943 there was the big Hollywood motion picture extortion and that was all Chicago. If New York represented L.A. on National matters, then one of the 5 Families in New York would have been involved in the Heavy Union Activity, Not Chicago.

As a matter of fact Nitti did make arrangements with the New Yorkers.  George Scalise, who ran the a major union for the benefit of Chicago, was put in by Anthony Carfano, a Brooklyn based capo under Charlie Lucky.  He was followed by Joe Adonis and Lepke Bucchalter.  Nitti kept in touch with Luciano about it.  This has been documented in the Nitti book I mentioned.

Aside from that, this was a business arrangement and it involved several Families.  It’s different than Commission matters which are kept separate.

Yes, if Chicago wanted something done a way would be found to have it done.  But if the Nick DeJohn case is an example, Chicago sent its people out too work with the local Family too.  Nick DeJohn appears to have been connected with Rush Street, but I won’t guarantee he was, got into some trouble and moved near San Francisco.  Chicago sent out a couple of its guys, I think Leonard Calamia was one, to work with the locals from San Francisco and kill DeJohn in 1947.  Chicago respects the territoriality of the local Families and works with them, not over them.

I haven’t confirmed this, but there was an unofficial western Commission headed by Chicago that was started around 1957, presumably under Giancana.  After the Apalachin fiasco Chicago was less involved with the national Commission so they tended to work with this informal commission.  It didn’t replace the national one, but became more regularly used.  Nevertheless, in the formal and official national Commission Los Angeles was represented by Lucchese.  Cleveland was on the Commission in the 1930s but was kicked off and represented by the Genoveses.

BTW, the Luciano-Costello-Genovese Family had a regular liaison to Chicago because they worked together so often.  His name was Anthony Ricci, alias Tony Gobels, and he was a capo in the Genovese Family.  His name came up a lot and was noted by the FBI and in a lot of Chicago Tribune articles.

Thanks HF.  I’m “in the know” (that’s how we say in So. Cal.).

I made a post about this earlier.  Have relatives (by marriage) in Schaumberg, Arlington Heights and Hoffman Estates.  Did some research while I was there.  Went to the Chicago Public Library, the cemetery where Capone, Giancana and most of the other Outfit guys  are buried, the National Archives.  Drove around and checked things out, saw the lay of the land.  Paid a lot of tolls.  Drove through a lot of highway construction.

I didnt want to say her name at first but that little girl at Joe B’s knee is his granddaughter Terry Palermo and that is in Melrose Park and DeGrazia is to his left. I believe the childs other grandfather is to Joe B’s right.

Black Angelo,  I want you to Click on Rick’s silloutte face on the left, and read all his latest postings. Regarding this Commission thing, my relative only mentioned the Chicago Commision. I know what Rick is talking about when he says National Commision. However, after 1957, I personally don’t think Chicago ever cared about some National Commission based mainly around the 5 Families.  The Chicago Commission was formed from 1957 forward, ( after the Appalachin Fiasco) and included :  Ricca, Giancana, Accardo, Prio & LaPorte & Auippa.  Battaglia & Bucciere were represented by Giancana & Ricca.  Cerone was represented by Accardo.  The Commission was expanded slightly by Auippa because during his reign there were 6  Street crews.  During Giancana’s reign there were of course 5. ( Taylor St. was so powerful there were like 2).  Anyway, here comes the point:   There were 2 Commissions from 1957 forward.  ONE WAS NEW YORK & THE OTHER WAS CHICAGO.  All the East Coast Families answered to New York & all the Midwest & West Coast Families answered to Chicago.  My relative never spelled it out for me but that was the impression I got from his dialogue. He personally never cared about the New York Commission at all!  When Chicago would deal with one of the 5 Families on something, it would be Commission to Commission. Chicago didn’t BELONG to New York’s Commission.  They had their own Commission from 1957 forward!  Your thoughts?

The Don, a Rick has been on those New York blogs to long, seems like an alright fella though. But we need to set him straight. Chicago and New York are way the fuck different. The straw that broke the camels back with the whole commision thing was the 1957 meeting in Upstate New York.. at Appalachin.

Mooney looked at those New Yorkers like a bunch of fucking nim wit bozo’s ! He always said if that would of been in Chicago he would of had things TAKEN CARE OF !!! After 57 Mooney kind of established the Chicago Commision (seperate of New York, Obrien was the one that made it famous though, i’ll get to that in a  second).

Anyhow Mooney thought Genovese was a fucking moron and he hated (really hated) Joe Bonanno (Joe B hated him too). However Mooney LOVED Joe Adonis, and tried to get him back into the US (Adonis was deported back to Italy). Mooney also loved Frank Costello and had respect for him.

Joey Obrien (Aiuppa) really layed the fucking hammer down on New York. He completely seperated himself from them and started what was known as “Chicago and then the rest”… he had all the street crews come as one… each crew in Chicago EQUAL to a crime family in New York.

He sent his prodigy Black Sam out to New York on a flight and told those “wiseguys” to go fuck themselves or else… but not before Black Sam and Obrien bamboozled New York into taking Atlantic City (if we (Chicago) could keep Vegas)… they fell for it. Idiots.. 

Joey Obrien also controlled Kansas City (which was very powerful with the national unions)… the KC boss was from Melrose Park (Nick Civella) and Obrien controlled him. As a side note Carlos Marcello down in New Orleans also did not like New Yorkers (except Frank Costello and Tommy Luchese).. it was a known fucking fact you had to have permission from Carlos to even step foot in Louisiana let alone New Orleans. But yes Joey O is the one who really solidified the Chicago Commission (seperate of New York).

ps Your relative would be a good source on this no doubt about it. By the way for all you guys not “in the know” Nick Civella had a personal nickname for Aiuppa “TWO TWO”.. it was a homage nickname for Aiuppa (in regards to Melrose Park-22nd street.. where Joey O was from). Civella still had family that resided in Chicago and worked for the Outfit (Anthony Chiavola jr and sr).

Black Angelo,  Thank You.  You said exactly what I said about this Commission issue. Why stop with Kansas City, you can include:  Detroit, Cleveland, St. Louis,  Rockford, Springfield, Milwakee, Denver, Los Angeles, San Francisco, IN ADDITION to Las Vegas.  There were about 24 individual ( not 26 ) Families across the Country at one time.  Granted, many were small but had some power in their area. If You subtract the 5 Families & Chicago, that leaves 18. Nine (9) answered to New York & nine (9) answered to Chicago.  I know for a fact that the Denver Group led by the Smaldone Brothers asked Chicago to partner  and help intercede on something involving construction and union stuff.  How do I know, because Spilotro’s son told me.  Denver reached out to Tony Spilotro. Tony flew back to Chicago and reported the request to his Boss & Commission member Joey Lombardo.  Lombardo cleared it with Auippa and flew out to Las Vegas. After confering with Spilotro, both of them flew to Denver.  That’s the way it worked my friend.  I say Los Angeles , from 1957 forward, answered to Chicago. I  don’t know how it was in 1939, but from 1957 forward, that’s how it was established.  And Yes, not only did Black Sam ( Auippa’s personal underboss from the Cicero Crew ) go to New York, at another time a few years later,  Cerone ( Boss of Elmwood Park & Underboss of the entire Outfit ) went there with Willie Messino to lay down the law once again about something with Las Vegas. How do I know? Because Willie told my other Uncle who was one of his close friends, that’s how I know). I rest my case.

22nd Avenue, actually. Joey O was lived on 22nd Avenue in Melrose Park.

I’m pretty sure it was at 910 W. 22nd Avenue, the house with the large porch and the vacant lot next to it. I could walk to it from where I am right now. I suspect you guys are a little older than me, so maybe you’ll remember better. I’ve been told that he’d sit out there and openly meet with his guys and crooked pols like he owned the town, which he did. He owned other properties in Melrose Park, too, and to this day has relatives who live on 23rd Avenue and, I believe, 19th Avenue/Broadway.

Here’s a picture:http://www.cookcountyassessor.com/Property_Search/Property_Large_Image.aspx?transfer_string1=http://www.cookcountyassessor.com/Property_Search/Property_Large_images_Output/15033420120000_AA.jpg

This is good stuff, guys.  If I can add my two cents without anyone getting mad (is that possible? LOL) I’ll start by saying that I basically agree with what the Don and Black Angelo wrote.  My understanding is bit more nuanced though.  Yes, starting in 1957 Chicago started its own separate Commission that included the leaders of its crews.  “The Last Supper” looks like one of those Commission meetings.  Officially Chicago was still on the National Commission (it’s a privileged, respected and powerful position, so it would make no sense for Chicago to give it up, even if they didn’t use it), but didn’t attend so much after 1962.

The Apalachin meet, by the way, wasn’t a Commission meeting but what was known as a General Assembly.  Black Angelo is spot on about what Giancana said.  He didn’t like Genovese and thought he was an arrogant idiot for calling it in the first place, chewed out Magaddino for holding it in upstate New York (the call was secretly recorded), and both Accardo and Giancana hated Bonanno because he was “planting flags” all over.  Of course, just being honest, Bonanno was trying to play the game Chicago was already doing.  Chicago had its flags planted all over the Midwest and the West, and was even in Central America!  The difference is that Chicago was getting away with it.

Bonanno also “planted a flag” years earlier by becoming a partner in the ownership of a cheese factory that was originally in Rush Street territory but moved to Wisconsin.  There was something going on before that with several people from the Rush Street and Chicago Heights crews getting killed.  I ordered the FBI files for Ross Prio and I hope it sheds some light about it.  It’s over 3000 pages so it’s taking a while.

For the other Families they were weak so sometimes other Families sent their people down there.  San Diego, which was officially part of the Los Angeles Family, had people from Chicago AND Detroit down there.   Frank Desimone was afraid to make new members so Los Angeles just shrunk and died out by attrition.  While it technically exists today under Milano there are people from the Gambino and Lucchese Families operating here today.

After Desimone died Licata tried to make more, but Los Angeles doesn’t really have the same “pool of talent” that Chicago and New York has.  Some people from Buffalo transferred to L.A.  In the past L.A. included transfers from Detroit, Kansas City, Cleveland and the Gambinos.  Sometimes that included people who would have been killed saved their lives by transferring to L.A.  Nick Licata was one of them.

As for the other Midwestern and Western Families answering to Chicago, from what I’ve read they’ve been answering to Chicago IN SOME SENSE since the 1920s.  Chicago was the biggest and one of the oldest Families in the area, so that could have been part of the reason.  Yet they are officially still represented by other Families on the Commission.  Or at least were.  According to Joe Massino the Commission hasn’t met since 1985, so these days the question is moot.

Getting back to the Chicago Commission versus the National Commission is that we don’t know as much about the Chicago one, but we can conjecture.  In the National Commission each representative was equal.  There was no “boss of bosses” on the Commission, each was considered an equal.  In the Chicago Commission the boss over the Outfit and the underboss over the whole Outfit would logically speaking have more power than the capos, so only the capos were equal (theoretically speaking).

The National Commission was concerned with the whole country (theoritically), but Chicago was logically concerned just with Chicago (or other parts of the country IF THEY WERE CONCERNED WITH CHICAGO [I am using caps for emphasis]).  If Kansas City wanted a business arrangement with Chicago it would be brought up, but if Kansas City wanted to knockoff a local hood, then that’s just up to Kansas City, for example.

We know less about the Chicago Commission also because it wasn’t really discussed in recordings.  It was something that Chicago just did.  Not only that but it might have existed in some form all the way back to Nitti.

An informer or a recording (I forgot which) documents a meeting around a table with Nitti, Ricca, Rio, Campagna, D’Andrea, Maritote and Fischetti (may have been Charlie Fischetti, who I think was the more powerful of the Fischetti brothers in the early days).  D’Andrea and Maritote may been there as Nitti personal bodyguards.  I believe this was in 1933 or 34.

Well, that’s my two cents.  Go easy on me.

Rick pretty spot on. But like I said before Obrien (Aiuppa) is the real boss of the Outfit that seperated Chicago from the rest (especially New York). He also had all of the cities west of the Mississippi (including Detroit) answering to Chicago. Most of this Chicago Commission Obrien set up was to answer desputes over skim money in Vegas (since NY did not get a piece of nuttin) and who to name or support as presidents of National Unions (like the Teamsters). Even in 1985 when Paul Castellano got whacked, Obrien could care less but thought those NY guys where idiots and bozos for foolish power plays.

Mooney probably planted the idea but really did not go seperate like Obrien would do in the 1970s. And Nitti most definatly had bodygaurds after 1932. He was shot in a assasination attempt and had a Mayor whacked (the Chicago Mayor). So yes he probably needed some bodygaurds lol.

In Robert Cooleys book “When Corruption was King” in the back of the book in the Notes.. Fbi agent Jim Wagner was in the OC bureau in NYC from 1969-1976… He came to Chicago in 1976 and He said quote in comparing the two mafias (in NY and Chicago)… “Chicago was more brutal in its control of their people and interests, and more impatient with people who didnt cooperate”… as for Chicago controlling everyting west of the Mississippi.. “That information had been received by so many informants and sources, it became common knowledge early in the seventies”.

All that insight from Jim Wagner who was an FBI agent in both cities and retired in 2000 after 31 years in the Bureau. Also when he came to Chicago in 1976 he was assigned to a top mobster – rising start Marco Damico. Didnt get him till 1994. Wagner called him a “tough nut to crack, because of his secretiveness”.

Rick, I am very interested in the fact that you go to the trouble of acquiring documents through FOIA. I have considered doing this before. Have you obtained audio recordings, as well?

FOIA is one way of doing it. I get records via media requests.

I thought the child was a boy. lol
I do know some of Joe’s grandchildren. The Palermo’s that I know are dark complected.

Willie said “On the know,” which means that someone knows discrete information. “On the arm” means strong-arming someone. “I’ve got that place on the arm,” which would mean that a thug is getting money or other benefits from a source that is being intimidated/extorted.

The only reason they got Marco in 1994 was because of crooked lawyer Robert Cooley. Cooley betraying his client would be like a priest, after hearing a confession, running to the Feds. LOL. If that didn’t happen, they would have never gotten Marco. The minute Cooley started showing that he had second thoughts about things was when Marco should have gotten permission from his Boss, DiFronzo, to knock down the selfish  Irish prick. 

Thanks, Joe. I figured it was “on the know” because it’s something I’ve heard my uncles and older relatives  say many times. As I’ve stated before, that branch of my family hailed from Polk Street, and, if I recall correctly, Willie came from Polk, as well, correct?

I was familiar with “on the arm” obviously. I accidentally typed “arm” when I meant “know.”

Is a media request distinct from a FOIA request, or is it a FOIA media request?

Distinct, better accepted and quicker.

I think Marco got what he had coming when Cooley put him away. My family’s friends, Pat, John and Fred (First Ward) used Cooley for court related stuff before he tied up with the thugs. The Cerone/DiFronzo thugs used their weight to take advantage of the First Ward’s guy, so they could fill their pockets and the rest is history. My family’s friends (Pat, John and Fred; and a few others) suffered because of the greedy thugs.
Under Mooney’s rule, a crew would not have been able to “spank” a guy (Cooley), who was previously installed into a position by another crew.
FYI: “Spank” means take money away from someone whether its by deception, extortion or vices.

No.

Rick,  I’m gonna go real easy on you. You made  a very good posting and are quite knowlegable about the Italian American Mafia.  Let me add this to the whole discussion.  Based upon       comments that I personally heard,  Chicago really didn’t care about having a seat on the National Commission because of what happened at Appalachin and because the National Commision was really more of a New York Commission. There were also a lot of problems in New York during the 1960′s starting with  Captain  Joey Gallo and his sub Crew revolting against Profaci.  Chicago would deal with one of the 5 Families, when neccessay, but that was basically it. After it was understood IN 1957 that Las Vegas would be controlled by Chicago, there really wasn’t a need to have an active seat on basically THEIR Commission. The National Commission was really a way for the 5 New York Families to try and figure out how they could peacefully coexist and settle THEIR problems.  Chicago’s own Commission headed by the Top Boss of the Monolithic Outfit was more PRODUCTIVE  and got more accomplished in Chicago, the Midwest & all the way to Vegas and the West Coast. 

Hey we mostly agree!!  Woo-Hoo!

The only thing I’ll comment on is about Nitti’s bodyguards.  Yes, I’m sure he needed them; my point was about the meeting with his top people.  D’Andrea and Maritote were not his top people so I had to wonder why they were there.  They were bodyguards, but more than just bodyguards.  That Unione Siciliana we discussed earlier?  D’Andrea was the supreme president in the 1930s.  Joseph Imburgio came after him (he was a former mayor then an Outfit attorney and possible member; Accardo once forged his name to see Ricca and Campagna when they were in prison).  It is also possible that D’Andrea and Maritote were more important in the early 1930s then demoted later.  If anyone knows anything on these guys…you know the story.

On the other stuff we agree once again.

I cannot disagree with you (especially about that “quite knowledgeable about the Italian American Mafia” part — just kidding LOL).  On the National Commission seat, like I said, I think Chicago still owned its seat, it just didn’t use it.  It didn’t use it because, as you said, it didn’t care.  But it would make sense to keep it JUST IN CASE Chicago wanted to use it for some reason.  Maybe leverage against the other Families.  Whatever the case, I believe the Commission sort of dissolved from lack of use after 1985 (according to Messino, not me).  So since 1985 Chicago is only in its own Commission, officially and unofficially.  It’s just sort of a technicality.

Related question:  Although Chicago dominated in Vegas, wasn’t Vegas considered “open territory” officially speaking?  Maybe not in reality, just officially among the Mafia as a whole? 

because of their connection to bally,chicago had a leg up on securing their position with a few major casinos in vegas.it was a straight 25% of all slot profits HUGE……

Joe and The Don, .. Robert Cooley had no contacts with the Outfit until he met Marco’s cousin Roland. Marco met Cooley in like 1969. He essentially belonged to Marco. It was a whole 8 years before Cooley would fix the biggest case of his life or start being trusted by the 1st ward.

So now the question is was Marco with Elmwood Park in 1969 (he was not), but he operated out of Taylor Street and the Wild Bunch in that era (He introduced Harry Aleman to Bob Cooley). And Marco went out socially with Cooley 3 nights a week (every week) from 1970s – 80.

When Cooley told his client ex Marco crew member Frank Renella that Marco and his crew wanted to kill him for stooling on some drug deals. Marco tried to have Cooley Knocked Down this would of been 1980. This shows a shrwed & ruthless side of Marco.

He had known this guy very well for 10/11 years and then in a instant wanted him dead. Fast forward to 1988/89 (an additional 9 years later) Marco felt comfortable with Cooley (a attorney i might add !) he had known for some 20 odd years.

Marco went away in 1994 on a fluke and everyday he did in prison i’m sure he wishes he would of whacked Bob Cooley in 1980. But Cooley started fixing cases for Pat Marcy again and got in the good graces with the 1st ward (so the contract was taken away by Outfit boss Pat Marcy) and then when Johnny DiFronzo started to gain emmense power in the Outfit he represented Johnny DiFronzo jr. on a drug and battery case and beat it completely for him and did not charge Johnny DiFronzo sr. (the mob boss).. So this got people feeling more comfortable with Cooley.

Again Elmwood Park inherited Cooley if only for the fact he had been paying Marco a street tax since like 1969/70 when he started to gamble and or was bookmaking. By the way.. COOLEY MET THE 1ST WARD POWERS THAT BE VIA MARCO !!

So to say Cerone/DiFronzo/Damico used their weight to take advantage of a 1st ward guy (Cooley) is very erroneous. And Marco went away on a fluke, ask anybody on the streets and they’ll tell you. Fuck even the FBI agent assigned to him will admit they got lucky. A Fucking fluke.. entrapment is what its called. He got Bobby Abbinanti that way also.

I have only requested FBI subject files.  I don’t know if the FBI sends out copies of its recordings.

To avoid an argument, I will simply rephrase my point. The thugs were stupid to press a man who held the power to put them (and others) in prison.

I think we would all like to hear them. Can you make a separate page on this site to be able to listen to them?

Rick should start writing for ANP. ANP would host the audio and allow the readers to listen to them.

lol! I know that house.

West of the Mississippi was Chicago

I will read this tomorrow…My head is rung from a fight last night. I won….but you would think I lost the way I feel right now.

Joe,  You’re correct about the ‘ Spank ‘  rule, but it doesn’t apply to High level Associates who betray the Outfit. I say Cooley is a phoney selfish Irish prick who should have been knocked down.  Past Quote from Pretty Boy  ‘ the worst sin is a hypocrite ‘.  Cooley hid behind his lawyer status and then committed treachery and pretended he did it for noble reasons! 

Joe,  that’s not what you said to me a long time ago. You said I was ‘ In the know ‘. I guess it was said both ways because come to think of it, I’ve heard it said both ways. Just like Giancana’s nickname, I’ve seen it spelled Mo and Ive seen it spelled Moe.

I agree. I enjoy hearing Rick’s ideas and appreciate the leg work he puts into his research. It would be nice to have someone bring another vantage point to the site.

Hey Rick, is there an email address you’d feel comfortable sharing? The lack of a PM feature here makes it difficult for users to take discussions off the threads.

Whether I switch from saying ‘in’ to ‘on’, Willie said ‘on’. No matter what, I favor ‘on’.

Oh I agree with that assesment you just made. I disagree with what you wrote before. He was not just the 1st Ward’s fixer he was the Outfits fixer. And he payed Marco a street tax.

Vegas was not “open territory” after Obrien got through with them (NY).. after 1970 it was Chicagos, Milwaukee and KC. Chicago getting the dominate profits of the skim.

Just like Ali after he fought Frazier. Frazier made Ali respect him. I think all the pre fight taunting of Ali about Frazier worked against Ali.

Well you didn’t favor ‘on ‘ with me. LOL

The Don, I went out last night to one of the Castaldos bars with Buddy Ciotti’s son until very early this morning. I am in no mood to argue. lol

I agree Horsey,
Your very good at internet type things. You should e-mail Joe Fosco and figure out a way to add a page on this site for things like that.

Kkanz,  Was Sweet Potatoes wife Italian? I don’t think she was Italian. Am I correct? 

Don,
I can’t even be comical tonight. I like to make funny comments . Literally my head is ringing. I can’t read the shit on here without a mind block.
p.s. Marco is made!
lol!
That’s the best I can do tonight.

The Don, Joe did say you was “in the know” I recall that.. And Horsey, depending on what neighborhood or what generation you was from some guys say “In” some guys say “on”. Just like some guys call girls.. “brauds” or “dames”. Why the fuck are we even talkin about this anyways. Such trivial stupid bullshit anyhow. Anyways Don “You in the know”.. My 2 cents I always thought “On the know” sounded odd.

Marco Bullied Cooley…..but Cooley…loved and lived the life in his  prime!

Who’s arguing? That’s the way you said it & Black Angelo is a witness. Have a drink on me! LOL

I know a Kangaroo Court when I see one.

Cooley was a selfish fucking hypocrite just like Frank Calabrese Jr.

I’d rather not publish my email but Joe F has it.  It’s okay if he passes it along to you.

Beautiful Desription!

She sure produced a beautiful daughter/ grand daughter. I saw a pic of the dynamic duo somwhere recently. Was his wife Blond? Northern Italian?

no,dark hair.she had 4 daughters so im not sure which one you mean.

The one wearing a shoulderless black dress with a married name starting with the letters Sal.

Excuse me. Only one side of the dress is shoulderless.

I appreciate that Joe (and HF).  But unless they’re on the internet I don’t have audio files, only physical files on paper or CD (non-audio CDs).  The material I have on FBI bugs or hidden listening devices are in the form of typed out transcriptions.  I wish I could listen to them to hear what they sounded like, but I don’t know if the FBI even has them anymore.  They would have been recorded on those big reel-to-reel machines and probably weren’t updated.

Elsewhere I have seen requests for recordings of Al Capone and Lucky Luciano, but I doubt if there are any.  Even Capone’s grandniece doesn’t have recordings.  I sure they would be valuable should any turn up, but by this time its not likely.

But I have a couple ideas for things I can write.  If you guys want to see an article connected with Chicago that I wrote, there’s one about early Mafia boss Anthony D’Andrea called “The Dreaded D’Andrea.”  It concerns the early days so it maybe beyond the area of interest for you guys, but that’s my specialty.  After all, it’s the past that set the stage for the present.

don,willie ds. girls? none of them starts with sal. there is one that starts with del.

There’s a Mary D. on F/B. with a strange last married name.

oh,that is oldest sons only daughter.

Both very attrative. Wow!

Let’s put it this way. If the 4 Daughters of Sweet Potato & wife look like those two, I would say they all come from a very good gene pool. Thanks for the info., I was just curious.

Rick,  During the mid 1970′s, about 5 Los Angeles Mafia men ( all made guys ) went to jail over pure outright extortion. Because they didn’t really have it togethr with a big scale Bookmaking operation, they went around trying to extort all the independent Bookmakers in the Valley section of Los Angeles & a few other parts like Beverly Hills.  It was referred to as the Southern Cal Shakedown.  The men were as follows: Dominic Brooklier, Sam Sciortino, Peter Milano, Rocky DeRosa & Jack LoCicero along with a couple other associates. Do you know what ever happened to Rocky DeRosa?  Also, did you know Peter Milano’s legitimate business is a Bail Bond Office in the Valley? His wife is Jewish and runs it. Milano’s niece went out briefly with a relative of mine who happens to live in Los Angeles.

You are correct.  The owner was John DiBella, and he was related to the DiBellas in Brooklyn who through the LaBruzzos contacted Joe Bonanno.

Before it was in Wisconsin the cheese factory was in the domain of Rush Street and their were numerous killings connected with factory and members of the Rush Street and Chicago Heights crews.  One informer claimed that Vincenzo “the Don” Benevento was fighting Accardo for day-to-day leadership of the Outfit.  This was just around the time Ross Prio became capo.  Prio and others had high-ranking positions in the cheese factory, but perhaps with Bonanno as the now part owner it moved to Wisconsin and the Outfit guys left.

Fred A. Romano, an assistant state’s attorney, Tony Paterno and Gabriel Spataro were the ones who founded the Grande Cheese Company.  Among those killed were Thomas Neglia and James D’Angelo.

If it’s the one I’m thinking of he died in Sherman Oaks on April 2, 1994.

Yes, I knew something about Milano’s bail bond operation.  These days I don’t think he really has anything to do with organized crime.

Kkanz,  Have you been to Las Vegas recently?  I was out there briefly and went to the Tropicana Hotel they have a Mob Exhibit.  I didn’t particulary like it.  They talked mainly about Chicago & New York.  There advertisement said  ‘ Get Made at the Mob Exhibit ’  Everbody who goes through the Exhibit comes out ‘ Made ‘ at the end.  I guess they’re trying to be like New York where everbody in the City is a made member of the 5 Families. LOL.   All the Mob men on display were Jews and Italians.  There was a disproportionate number of Jews compared to the Italians especially concerning New York.  From Chicago they had Sam Giancana,  Tony Spilotro along with High Level Associate Lefty Rosenthal.  They also had Mickey Cohen & Jack Dragna from Los Angeles ( like they really had something to do with it ) LOL.  They even had the story  wrong about where Tony and his brother were killed.  I saw the guy running it and told him but he didn’t seem to care.  He based it on the movie.  When he told me that I laughed and walked away.  They had artifacts from some of the Family members which was the only thing that was interesting.  There was a letter there written by Sam Giancana to Antionette.  The guy running it was Jewish and he supposedly scammed a bunch of investors out of a lot of money.  The best part of the whole thing was seeing Paulie Walnuts and Frank Vincent from the Sopranos and talking with them for awhile.  I told them their program was way better than the Exhibit. LOL.  Well, if you ever go to Vegas in the future, don’t go there. REVIEW BY NEWS REPORTER, THE DON.

“He was going to send Joe B’s lackey Cerone out to LA to whack the cocksucker, JOE B HAD TO BEG MOONEY AND then go to Ricca to take the contract off of Desi’s head” This is one the dumb is things I’ve ever read, like I said before do you have any proof or facts to back your accusations up? The answer is no you don’t. This is the problem with a lot of posters on here, they say things present them as facts and expect readers to take what the say as fact, when in reality its the farthest thing from being facts. 

I mentioned the Desi hit about a year ago on one of the threads.

I was thinking about going there because they have the Lansky diaries.  That would be interesting to read.  But I think that mob museum or experience that is supposed to open next month will be better, at least from what I’ve read.  Also heard that the prices are pretty high.

Joe,  Is every F.B.I. Report available to the public for a 15.00 Fee? On their website they send it to you in the form of a CD. Have you gotten any reports this way? How long did it take to receive it? 

The Don, read about FOIA. We are talking about FOIA requests. There are not always fees but there are restrictions and guidelines. Items and information can be redacted. Not all requests are filled. Years ago, I was a FOIA officer where I worked, so I know something about it. Here’s the FOIA page on the FBI site:

http://www.fbi.gov/foia/ 

What type of requests would typically not be filled?

With regard to a FOIA request submitted to the FBI, they probably would not provide information pertaining to a person who is still alive–especially a person who is under investigation, obviously. If you submit a request for information about someone who is deceased, you may receive redacted copies of documents if some of the information contained therein is still considered sensitive. The FBI has some documents from the “gangster era” readily available on its website because requests for those materials are very popular. Mooney’s documents are still heavily redacted, if you can believe it. And, as I type this, I see that they recently added Ken Eto’s: http://vault.fbi.gov/ken-eto

Joey O’s http://vault.fbi.gov/Joseph%20Aiuppa

What if a person is alive but not under investigation and had some lind of ineraction with the F.B.I.? Could that type of report be purchased?

Sorry for the typos. link should be kind. ineraction should be interaction.

I highly doubt it, but it may depend on the nature of whatever situation the person is/was involved in. 

btw, You wouldn’t really be ‘purchasing’ the documents obtained via FOIA. The public is entitled to access to them, within reason. The 15-dollar charge is for saving the files to a personal storage device like a flash drive or CD.  Where I used to work, we provided printed reports, mainly. The first 150-pages were free and after that it was 10-cents per page.

Go ahead and submit a request; you have nothing to lose. If it gets denied, you won’t owe the money.

I realize that a request doesn’t mean a person is purchasing the actual information for ownership purposes. Hey, I just thought of something, Joe should have in his possession or if not, then purchase the report about the F.B.I. informing him & his lawyer about the death threats on those two different occasions.  The reports should be put on the threads! Then, that would really shut up Baldy, plus it would be interesting to read.  

Rick,  On the Real Deal Forum, are there articles that are written like on ANP and then discussions that follow? Is it mostly all about New York? is there a possibility I could check it out somehow?

The FOI allows one to obtain records on anyone dead or alive, unless they are the target of a pending investigation. I requested under FOI my fathers record and received a letter that his record was ordered destroyed. I requested under FOI my record (a few years ago). I am still waiting. A couple of years ago I put in a request on Mooney. I received his record but it was seriously redacted. However, there were some neat things to read about various day-to-day situations (but nothing juicy or great).

The fees depend on the size of the file. I made three attempts to get files from the FBI under FOI. I asked for my father’s record, which I discovered was ordered destroyed. I have the letter somewhere, but it has been roughly 15-years since I filed for it. I would rather submit another request to get a new letter saying it was destroyed, instead of looking for the old one. The letter that I received from the FBI indicating that my father’s record was destroyed took roughly 6-months to receive. I was not surprised because I knew that Romie and Pat M pulled some heavy strings in Washington DC in the early to mid 70s when my fathers federal conviction from his 1940s military problem suddenly became a reason the Teamsters ousted my father. Within 6-months, his federal conviction no longer appeared on his record, which caused the Teamsters to quickly restore him as an official (too bad Hoffa could not do that).
I obtained Mooney’s file, which did not take very long. Large numbers of people probably ask for his file that a copy of it left on the counter (lol).
I attempted to get my record a few years ago (under FOI). I am still waiting. However, during the 9-months that my civil RICO case lived, the federal judge gave me leave to subpoena the FBI for the 302 reports that were generated in 2004 and 2006 when my life was under threat. The FBI refused to give me a reasonable amount of information, however did verify that threats were made against my life (I hove those documents). I asked the federal judge to order the FBI to turn over all of the reports and other documents, but he denied me.

The fees depend on the size of the file. I made three attempts to get files from the FBI under FOI. I asked for my father’s record, which I discovered was ordered destroyed. I have the letter somewhere, but it has been roughly 15-years since I filed for it. I would rather submit another request to get a new letter saying it was destroyed, instead of looking for the old one. The letter that I received from the FBI indicating that my father’s record was destroyed took roughly 6-months to receive. I was not surprised because I knew that Romie and Pat M pulled some heavy strings in Washington DC in the early to mid 70s when my fathers federal conviction from his 1940s military problem suddenly became a reason the Teamsters ousted my father. Within 6-months, his federal conviction no longer appeared on his record, which caused the Teamsters to quickly restore him as an official (too bad Hoffa could not do that).
I obtained Mooney’s file, which did not take very long. Large numbers of people probably ask for his file that a copy of it left on the counter (lol).
I attempted to get my record a few years ago (under FOI). I am still waiting. However, during the 9-months that my civil RICO case lived, the federal judge gave me leave to subpoena the FBI for the 302 reports that were generated in 2004 and 2006 when my life was under threat. The FBI refused to give me a reasonable amount of information, however did verify that threats were made against my life (I hove those documents). I asked the federal judge to order the FBI to turn over all of the reports and other documents, but he denied me.

I yes, I read his once. I believe the FBI publishes it. Some really crazy stories about some beatings on Cicero Avenue.

I yes, I read his once. I believe the FBI publishes it. Some really crazy stories about some beatings on Cicero Avenue.

I have the records. Believe me if i thought they would be interesting to read, i would have published them. Each document has a few sentences indicating the threat and that is it.

Dane Placko v. Mike Castaldo Jr: http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/news/investigative/suburban-bellwood-cook-county-employee-michael-castaldo-500-thousand-year-20111206

Mike has been doing this for years.

Joe, did you know that after Don Mattingly retired from baseball, he dabbled in show business? It’s a miracle that when he was playing the club circuit he wasn’t armed by any wiseguys. Anyway, check it out. It’s pretty good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFt6MyiVx54&feature=player_embedded

There may be some ANP articles there or at least links to them.  RD isn’t just about New York and there are discussions about different organizations all over the world.  Lately there have been a lot of discussions about the Cotronis in Montreal, for example.

I emailed Joe an address to use for joining.  Since I don’t have your email address just ask him.  When you reply include your desired username.

I found additional material on the Chicago Commission.  According to an informant in the 1960s, it started after Frank Desimone’s contact on the Commission was changed from Lucchese to Bonanno.  They didn’t like each other so Desimone went around him to other Commission members, such as Angelo Bruno.  Bonanno got pissed off and planned to kill Desimone.  This got reported to other Commission members and then after that, around 1964, the Western Families were directed to report to Chicago.  Angelo Lonardo added that the Families that reported to Chicago were all the Western ones, including Kansas City, St. Louis and Detroit (but not Cleveland).

Rick,  I’m gonna translate what I said and what you just posted and make it all work. Between 1957 & 1964, Los Angeles reported to both.  They were represented on the National Commission ( which is really the New York Commission with some other East Coast Families ) by Lucchese or Bonnano and ALSO dealt directly with the Chicago Commssion.  After 1964, Los Angeles reported exclusively to the Chicago Commission.  

Takes a while to catch up with everything on here when you miss a few days. I suppose a concussion will do that to you once in a while! lol!
Look’s like we need a new article…We are beating this one to death with so many off topic comments. It happens with all the articles on here after a while.
Joe F. What’s on the horizon?

Frank DeSimone was who Joe Pesci played in “Goodfella’s” correct?

So much is blacked out that if someone was not “in the know” they couldn’t make sense out of it.

Looke up “Jodie” on youtube….it’s jodie180 980 or something or another. He or she has excellent videos that you would all enjoy!!!!!

No. Frank DeSimone was the Boss of the Los Angeles Mafia Group for a short while during the 1960′s.

The Don, can you post something I disagree with once in a while?
Yep, I took a beating for 2 rounds, 3rd I won by TKO.
Ironically my last fight. I like training younger up & comers much more. I wish I had better trainers when I was younger.I don’t want to get off track on ANP so I’ll stop now.
Again, I appreciate everything Joe, you, Black, & Horsey contribute….brings me back here almost everyday.

I tell people “It’s on the Arm” meaning I’m giving it to them for free.

Or….I say “It’s on the cuff”

Looks that way, but I’d like that to be confirmed.  I’ll keep on hunting down documents and see if they say anything of interest.

Thank You. Do Right Handed Boxers have a Right Hook or is it called a Right Cross?

No idea. Sorry.

Dane Placko is a tough journalist but he acts like everything is connected to the Outfit or that is why a said individual with a notorious name has a said high paid position. But Mikey jr. (Castaldo jr.) busted his ass in college got a undergrad degree in 4 years.. then went to Law School and busted his ass for an additional 3 years and got involved in government oh probably 22/23 years ago.

Alot of people are overpaid in society but they all justify it by their education or how many college degrees they have. The better university you graduate from can make the difference in 10′s of thousands of dollars. And if you have a Law Degree like Mike Jr. the world is your oyster. He works hard and has never been arrested a day in his life. I dont care who his dad is. Nice try though Dane Placko jag off.

Usually the highest paid state employees in any state are football coaches at state universities (some coaches not even big time). Making millions a year. But they justify that by bringing in millions a year in revenue and to the state universities. IF you make it to a Bowl Game the pay out is through the roof. Make it to a BCS Bowl game each school win or lose takes in like 16 million. These coaches make more than Mikey jr., Mayors, State Senators, Circuit Judges, Supreme Court Judges, Sheriff’s, Police Commissioners.. you name it and in any state.

Black Angelo,  Agreed 100%. His father was very proud of him. Dane Jacko is Jackealous.

Joe it’s me (Teets). I read those transcripts, of course. Fortunately, you got court supervision. However, it is unfortunate that your enemies are still on the street (aka “on the loose”) meaning, they are not in jail, regretfully. Thank you for reproviding the links. My favorite part is when someone crossed out II Jack’s and wrote II Jokes restaurant. What was Cerone thinking, opening a red sauce joint like II Jokes? I never made it there because during the time it was open, I mainly went to places where I could shake my ass to dance music with ladies all around.
 
Joe,  none other than one “Harlem Playboy” (LOL) is screwing around in your threads after a long period of silence. Remember, he used to clown in your various threads with the Nick Gio material? What strange behavior (LMAO). He probably didn’t even read the Lee article and is still waiting for the article you were cranking up about Nick Gio and William “Billy” Daddono the III (LMFAO). Harlem Playboy has some serious problems, unfortunately.

Harlem Playboy loves Nick Gio material. He is probably sitting on the edge of his seat waiting for the article.  (LOL).

Joe, did you ever notice that he likes to point the finger at others? Maybe next time he does it he should look in the mirror while he’s doing it.

Keep on keepin on (LOL)
 
Teets

Teets I love your posts! You crack me up!!!

I just came across something I found to be interesting. Frank C. Jr. is a motivational speaker now for “Leading Authorities” lol! That’s not what I found to be interesting. Tim Roemer, you know who’s son, is also a speaker for that same company.  I wonder how that came about?

Chitowndago,  I wonder if Tim Roemer knows he’s secretly related to Acccardo? LOL

Teets, I’ve always gotten the impression that you’re more of a fighter than a dancer. (No offense). I’m surprised, that’s all. Were you actually dancing, or were you just mingling with women? I’m curious.

Joe, I read Aiuppa’s FOIA docs. There’s a lot of interesting items in there in addition to the beatings. First, it was repeatedly mentioned (by numerous sources) that Aiuppa was only #2 in Cicero while Claude Maddox was alive. When C.M. later died (1958), Aiuppa already had his strip of gambling houses and bordellos but his expansion opportunities were limited because the top boss–Giancana–had his own individual interests established in Cicero. Another interesting thing was that Aiuppa became extremely unpopular in Chicago OC around 1960, and it was stated that he closed his Melrose Park operations, and the FBI took him off the Top Hoodlums Program list. A few years later, the the feds put his name back on. Do you know what happened? I know Giancana did not like him, so I’m wondering if he, as boss, shelved Aiuppa for a while in the early 1960′s. 

Johnny Moore (aka Claude Maddox) was one of Lefty’s top guys. I believe it is rumored that Moore/Maddox is the father of Cook County’s Judge Maddox. I believe what happened is exactly what you have said.

Also, if you read Spilotro’s FOIA docs, the FBI seemed to have at least one good dry snitch in the early/mid 1980′s. There was mention of something to the effect of Ferriola not being boss. I think it was actually stated that Ferriola was no higher than Spilotro at the time the information was provided.

Horsey, Close. Ferriola was never the Top Boss, but as you well know he was the Capo within the Extended Cicero Crew. He was of higher stature than Spilotro, trust me on this one.  Spilotro was an important made guy but he didn’t have made guys working under him, only soldiers. Ferriola had made guys and soldiers woking under him during the early/mid 1980′s

Horsey, Do you want to do Chart#3?  I did outline the Hierarchy previously on one of these threads. Your thoughts?

I did not read Spilotro’s FOI docs. I have no desire to read up on him.

I do not believe Giancana would shelve a Boss of a Crew unless there was a really God Damn good reason. I have never heard of such a reason. Giancana disliked Cerone more than Auippa. He needed Auippa as a partner to run those rackets in Cicero.  Auippa had his own power base in Cicero.  Anything running in Melrose Park around 1960 had Sam Teets Battaglia ‘s name written on it.

I do and actually have a design saved somewhere. I look for it. 

Okay, fair enough. Maybe not completely shelve him, but I would think Mooney scaled back Joey O’s operations.

Now that’s funny and I don’t care who you are!!!! I think in his Bio it states that Joe Batters is his stepmother.

That damn FOIA file on Spilotro tricked me. It looked like only two pages at first. You click on it and it’s a mother load. Took a while to read.

It don’t matter if your righty or lefty.
a cross  is also called a “straight” its’s a power punch too. Too narrow to answer. lol!

I wonder if Tim Roemer knows what we think of his father? WOW! Anyway, if he did read these threads, he might accidently learn how the Outfit is really structured and that his father’s boyfriend was not quite as powerful as he made him out to be. LOL

Or maybe Hillel Levin will read these threads… he has got a major boner for Joe B also. I read 2 Playboy articles in the last 4 years he wrote and apparently Joe B was not only the biggest mobster in Chicago but the Free World. But he probably just ran with what Roemer said in his bullshit books.. foolish journalism.

Joe,  How about a new article? What about writing one on Joey Lombardo with some good pictures to go with it.  A very colorful guy and a Top Outfit Boss. You could even add in the article the story about the mix up  arrest that occurred accidently  in 1964 between Lombardo & Joey Lombardi. Those two never forgot it!  Just a suggestion.  I think a lot could be written about Lombardo. 

Fellas, I dont know if it is mere coincidence or Chuck Goudie from Abc7 has been reading the ANP blogs (and got the idea from me to do a story) and a posting I made 2 days ago on here… but last night he had a I-Team report on exactly what I was talking about… when I was talking about Mikey Castaldo Jr. and his Gov’t job. I went on and futher discussed in the 3rd paragraph of that posting who in fact is the highest paid state employees. Football Coaches !

I can only imagine in the next year Chuck will be doing a story on Marco Damico and how he is the “undisputed” New Boss of the Outfit lol (although Marco has been in that spot a while)… Chuck if your reading this Wake the Fuck up ! Here’s the story he did last night:

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/iteam&id=8461774

Whenever Marco got out of jail, which was in 2005, that’s when he became the Top Day to Day Boss of Elmwood Park & Top Boss of the Outfit.  Some argue it’s Pete DiFronzo. No, he is high level but does not have the day to day involvment and experience in Gambling like Marco.  In any territory in Chicago, as I mentioned previously, the made guy/guys supervising/running Gambling for the Outfit are the premier men in that particular area, even over juice men ( even though they work hand in hand ).  Gambling is the lifeblood of the Outfit.  Now, send this posting to Chuck Goudie so he can write an article about it.  Maybe he’ll accidently learn something. LOL. If Goudie really did an article about the Sructure of the Outfit, he would make it sound like a smaller version of New York and every made guy he could think of would be a Boss. There would be 40 or  50 undisputed Bosses in Chicago according to him.

How do you purpose Marco stepped over Joey A?

I will write something today. Thank you for the request. However, Joe Lombardo is someone that I would not write about. I admit that I hardly knew him. I have been in his company a number of times (via others close to me), but he is someone that I have a distinct respect for. And, because I know that Joe would not like an article written about him, coupled with the distinct respect that I have for the man, I do not wish to author an article on him.

Joe,  To be honest, I don’t completely understand your answer above me. Do you have good feelings for Joe Lombardo or not good feelings for him? Would you not author an article about him becuase of your feelings for someone else who was close to him?

That’s a fair question.  I would explain it in this way.  John DiFronzo is the Senior Advisor and Mentor to Marco in the Dominent Extended Elmwood Park Crew.  Joey A. is also a semi-retired type of High Level Advisor who is actually more directly connected to Grand Ave.  Marco is more of the Day to Day ‘ Hands on ‘  Boss over men involved in Gambling.  

I would share with you more via email, but it is nothing exciting. For this record, I wish to clarify that I have distinct feelings regarding Lombardo, which keep me from writing about him. Thank you.

what a guy to pick out.i cant think of a man with cleaner hands.old man mike did a great job of raising those boys.true gentlemen.i guess italians are not supposed to be paid well.cant think of any other moral to that news bit….

Correct.  Only N.BA. Basketball Players are to be paid well, not Italians, unless of course they can play basketball.

Like the Don said that is a fair question. But essentially Marco was from the same mold as a Jim Marcello. Like Frank Calabrese Sr. explained so eloquentlly about Joey Lombardo or Andriacchi never being a boss and the media had it wrong. And he went on to explain the Christmas tree and how the Outfit was different now.

Marco is Top Boss because John DiFronzo says so and to be honest it makes most sense (kind of like when Cerone selected Lee Mags as Capo over Andriacchi. Lee was Capo because Cerone said so. Problem was Cerone went away and DiFronzo was the true power in Elmwood Park so his # 2 guy would be just as powerful as Lee or Joey A and that guy was Marco).

I’m told via a source in April 2005 when Jim Marcello got indicted DiFronzo really didnt care because he knew 2 months later “His Guy” would be released from Milan and everything would run just as smoothly as it did before Jim went to prison. Marco would become a Capo in 2006. Johnny would step down soon after Marco got situated to Life again and street Life. This would turn the most powerful Capo into a Top Boss. Trust me the media is way way behind in whats going on with who’s in control in the Outfit.

As a side note,
My source was telling me about Johnny DiFronzo’s big birthday bash tonight. He told me where it was going to be, but i promised him i would not put it on the threads. I’m told alot of Outfit heavyweights will be their to pay their respects. Wonder if Joe Fosco is going lol.

Black Angelo,   Very well explained.  I couldn’t have said it better myself!  I know in the past Pretty Boy used to go. I’m sure he will be there tonight with the rest.  Johnny will be turning 83. i believe Marco & Pretty Boy are the same age 75.  Am I correct about the age?  A lot of times the party was at a place in E.P.

Black Angelo,  I also think the smaller Xmas tree analogy by Frank Sr. directly refers to the downsizing of the Oufit fron 6 Street Crews down to 4, which actually took place in the 1990′s. Also, the more concentrated way of shielding the Top Bosses & the Senior Advisors  for protection from the Rico Act which they didn’t  have to deal with in the 1960′s & 1970′s.  I believe the Rico Act came about around 1985.  That’s when it seemed like a lot of things changed. 

I try to explain as well as I can Don. But Yes your right Johnny DiFronzo will be 83. Marco was born January 1st, 1936 so he will be 76. As will “Pretty Boy” next year. Joey Lombardo was also born on January 1st (1929) and he will be 83 also. And yes for years and years the party was in Elmwood Park.

The RICO Act was enacted in 1970, but the problem was that it took the feds over 15-years how to use it properly. The only guy who understood it in the beginning was an egghead named Robert Blakey, the guy who drafted it. Blakey was close with Bobby Kennedy and was  Chief Counsel to the U.S. House Select Committee on Assassinations. He has read all the classified FBI documents pertaining to the assassination of JFK and believes that the Outfit teamed up with the Tampa and New Orleans groups to kill him. 

LOL

“SAY NO TO “Mob Wives”: RestaurateurTony Durpetti, owner of Gene & Georgetti’s steakhouse, recently received a call from the producers of the hit VH1 “Mob Wives” reality show asking if they could use his eatery as one of the locations to film a Chicago spin-off version of the series. According to a letter sent to owners/operators of Chicago-area Italian restaurants byLouis H. Rago, president of the Italian American Human Relations Foundation of Chicago, 

“Tony not only refused them, but informed them that should they come to the restaurant, he would personally escort them out.”

Rago is sick of the stereotypical and negative images that are promoted through media about Italians and is asking the owners not to participate. “We need more Tony Durpettis in our community,” said Rago. “We need folks who will just stand up and say ‘enough.’ We hope Tony has started a movement long needed in the Italian-American community.”
Thus far, restaurant owners Phil Stefani, Alex Dana and Joey DiBuono are saying they will not participate in the show.” (Stella Foster, Suntimes, 2011)

Thanks  Horsey for the official word. I knew it was around 1985 that they at least started implementing RICO.  It’s been long rumored Chuckie ( Nick ) Nicoletti was a shooter of the hypocrite JFK.  He was an excellent marksman. He also lived in Melrose Park for years. Pretty Boy said Nicoletti was more dangerous than Alderisio. 

Didn’t Joe say he was somehow related to Black Sam?

Louie Rago’s grandfather buried Al Capone. Ask me how I know. Because Louie Rago told me. He talks out of both sides of his mouth. When he is telling Outfit tails, it is okay. When other do it, its discrimination. He and all those other goofs running that stupid human relations firm are all full of shit (in my opinion).

And its no secret that Stella Foster is (allegedly) into white men, which is why all the above get to have their say in the paper (in my opinion).

You’re right. I believe that the “human relations” aspect is just hypocritically high-minded, sanctimonious bullshit. These restaurateurs don’t want to piss off the wrong people (in my opinion)–which I can understand–but it’s just plain stupid to pretend that they have moral stake in the situation.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/foster/9270374-452/local-restaurants-say-no-to-mob-wives-filming.html

Bobby Kennedy, Richard Nixon and Ronny Reagan (with the help of others) all helped give birth to RICO. Reagan’s administration went to town with it.

who me?

Black Sam and Nicoletti were related somehow, and I thought you are the one who originally brought it up,

Black Sam and Charlie Nicosia were cousins. Charlie, who I always called Uncle Charlie, was like a brother to my father and Uncle Romie. In fact, when Uncle Charlie sold his Elmwood Park home he moved into my Uncle Romie’s building in River Forest. Johnny used to meet them their a lot.

There is no such thing as the Mafia! It only exists in the mind of Louie Rago’s Grandfather & Armand’s restaurant! 

No relation

lol

Joe, check your email, please.

I have to seriously wonder if Mooney had Roemer on the take. It’s not impossible.

Roemer hated 4 made guys in particlular: 1) Mooney 2) DeStefano 3) Alderisio  4) Spilotro.  Why?  None of these four men feared or respected Roemer in the least.  DeStefano would have tortured Roemer & then killed him with no hesitation had Ricca not stopped him.  Roemer was an Outfit wanna be in love with Accardo.

Teets, here.  
Joe, I was wondering if Joe “Nigger Joe” Amato was ever a capo in the Chicago Outfit. He was in the Last Supper picture, that’s for sure. I was always of the opinion that Joe Amato was a butt capo in the Outfit, but I’ve been reading the threads and nobody has ever indicated the Amato was a capo.
 
Keep on keepin’ on (LOL)

Teets

Dear Joe, please remove the word “butt” before the word “capo” in the third sentence of my previous post. I’m not sure how it got in there, to be honest with you. Nowhere should it say “butt capo” in my post. “Butt capo” makes no sense and is not a special position in the outfit, obviously. Thank you,.

(Dear Joe, to be totally honest with you, I think I do know how “butt” made it into my previous post. While researching Bing Crosby’s Merry Christmas album, I came across an interesting biographical fact about him. It seems that ol’ Bing was a major bastard to his kids sometimes, regretfully. I hate to admit that I laughed extremely hard when I read that Bing gave his son Gary Crosby (who was fat) a lot of grief and introduced him to people as “Bucket Butt” or “Meet my fat-assed kid.” (LMFAO). 

“Bucket Butt” has been on all mind all morning and apparently found a way to sneak into my post about none other than Joe Amato, unfortunately. Sadly, I am ashamed to admit that I don’t even have the decency to feel embarrassed about the fact that I laughed very hard at the “Bucket Butt” story. Anyway, I apologize that it snuck into my comment above. Thank God it will not happen again. 

Here is my source for the information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bing_Crosby#Personal_life

PS: Joe, you’ll never guess who I found a picture of. This is Bing and “Bucket Butt” who obviously slimmed down as he got older (LOL) http://images.wikia.com/bionic/images/2/26/Crosby_and_Bing.jpg

Teets,  Have you been shakin’ your ass lately for the women?  Good man!   Joe, can certainly give you his opinion about your question.  I have addressed that Last Supper Picture a couple of times and I’ll tell you what my relative told me.  Everybody in that picture was a Capo except Joey DiVarco who was the new underboss to Vince Solano and Joe Amato who was a strong made guy who was at the meeting to discuss something about his franchise.  Dominic DiBella was officially retiring because he was dying of cancer. The other 7 men were all Bosses representing the 6 Street Crews & of course Accardo, the Senior Advisor.  Happy holidays to you. 

You guys will probably like this. Lots of great photos / footage of Talyor Street in the old days. It’s produced by an Italian news correspondent and some local professors, authors, and teachers. It’s in Italian, though, and I only understood 10% of it. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7G2yLWH5xI&feature=youtu.be

Teets, you are one of a kind. Stay that way my friend!!!!

Teets, Hello my friend… was N*gger Joe Amato ever a capo ? lol.. are you being funny because that is almost an laughable question. I explained him quite thoroughly in the Moe Giancana thread. He goes way back with Joe B to the prohibition era of Chicago (from what I hear he was a Killer). N*gger Joe ended up like Joe B also (retired but respected).. Although N*gger Joe was a Capo longer than Joe B… (Joe B gave up Elmwood Park to Cerone in the late 50s). Amato retired in the late 1970s. He died in the mid 90s. And attended Joe B’s funeral in 1992. I explain more on the other thread. But the Don below me is correct also. All men in the last supper picture where capo’s (at the time) and or retired. Or being given a postion as Capo.

The Lee Mags article broke a record for the most views in
the shortest period. Over 8,000 in lest than one week (and I am talking full page downloads from humans, not web crawlers). The others average about 3,500 in nearly a weeks time. With new readers and old readers browsing the archived articles, ANP averages a range of 25k per week in viewership.

Joe,  You know why that happened. Everyone enjoys some controversy. LOL.  Aside from that, I told you this was one of your best articles, The one you hesitated and procrastinated about writing for a long time. You can thank Black Angelo for strong arming you into writing it! LOL

I work for a DVD duplication company and we did a job for a Non for profit Inner City Youth Foundation.  I was printing the DVD’s and I noticed on the artwork the title of the DVD was “Clark Vs. Caruso”.  I took it home and watched it and it is a video of Frank Caruso Sr. holding hands with some black activist and praying for Leonard Clark.  Then Frank Caruso Sr. is interviewed and he talks about how they need to bring peace to the neighborhood and how his son is a nice person.  The whole thing looked staged.

I think the Mike Colella beating of the Police Women occured on New Years Eve 1985.  I looked on the Chicago Tribune archive and the trial happened in 1986.  I know Colella was involved in another fight in a bar in Schaumburg in 1987-1988.

Very staged, in my opinion.

Thank you. I knew my father was sick or dead at the time, apparently he was sick.

The character Joe Pesci played in Goodfellas was based in part on Tommy DeSimone.   Frank Desimone was Tommy DeSimone’s uncle. 

I believe Tim Romer was his nephew, not son.

Wasnt Joey O his underboss? 

Hrmm, nev mind>  I forgot about Paul Ricca.  So the top 3 where Joe B, Ricca, and Sam.  Joey O didnt get in the top 3 until Ricca passed id guess